Talk:Mahmud Hasan Deobandi/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Aussie Article Writer (talk · contribs) 00:46, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Rate	Attribute	Review Comment
1. Well-written:
	1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct.	Could we get a translation of "Adilla-e-Kāmilah", "Misbāh al-Adillah" and Izāh al-Adillah? fixed with the help of nominator’s very kind friends. - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 13:01, 29 July 2021 (UTC) I am very confused about "Ahsan al-Qurā". Could we have this reworked? Who wrote this? Was it Mahmud Hasan? If not, how is this related to the article subject? rewrite has resolved the issue - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 04:11, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
	1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.	Lead is excellent, layout is very good. No words to watch.
2. Verifiable with no original research:
	2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline.
	2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose).	Early life: Note that I assume good faith with all sources I am unable to read, but for transparency I note when I am unable to read the sources. I checked Rizwi 1981, p. 20. for “ He was an authorized disciple of Imdadullah Muhajir Makki and Rashid Ahmad Gangohi in Sufism.” but I can’t find this in the text cited. Resolved. - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 13:31, 29 July 2021 (UTC) everything else I can read checks out Career: Darul Uloom Deoband: the only source I could read was Khimjee 1999, p. 92. - this checks out Silk Letter Movement: These are the sources I could read: verified the claims citing Tabassum 2006, p. 47. (managed to find a copy!) verified the claims citing Rizwi 1981, p. 137-138. the following is problematic... "Hasan himself traveled to Hejaz to secure Turkish support in 1915." This cites Rizwi 1981, p. 21., but I checked this and I couldn't find the bit that supports this, could you quote the bit I'm missing? Resolved. - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 22:14, 30 July 2021 (UTC) Khilafat movement: these are the source I could read: verified all the claims citing Khimjee 1999, p. 144. Jamia Millia Islamia: The source cited for "This has been established by Muhammad Ali Jauhar, Hakim Ajmal Khan in response to the demands of students of Aligarh Muslim University who alleged the administration was pro-British Raj" is this Milli Gazette article, but this reads "But Aligarh disappointed him during the non-cooperation movement. Many students of Aligarh too were disappointed with the administration’s pro-British policies which prevented teachers and students from taking part in the freedom movement. In 1920, some students suddenly left the Aligarh Muslim University. A free and private “National Muslim University” was planned to accommodate these students" - I can't see where it mentions Muhammad Ali Jauhar and Hakim Ajmal Khan. Could you clarify? Just realized there was a second citation! sorry, I'm assuming this is in this source? - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 23:25, 29 July 2021 (UTC) Resolved. - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 22:14, 30 July 2021 (UTC) Jamiat Ulema-e-Hind: I was unable to verify any material as I could not read it, I of course WP:AGF. - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 23:27, 29 July 2021 (UTC) Students: - unable to verify sources Literary works: The translation of the Quran: sources I can verify check out al-abwāb wa al-tarājim li al-Bukhāri: source I can verify checks out Adilla-e-Kāmilah: unable to verify sources Īzah al-adillah: unable to verify source Ahsan al-Qirā: unable to verify sources Jahd al-Muqil: unable to verify sources Tas'hīh Abu Dawūd: unable to verify sources Death and legacy: sources I can read check out
	2c. it contains no original research.
	2d. it contains no copyright violations or plagiarism.	Passes Earwig
3. Broad in its coverage:
	3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic.	I think the interested reader would like to know the general gist of Jahd al-Muqil. I realise it is a large work, but can we get some sort of potted summary? excellent summary, thank you - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 04:12, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
	3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).
	4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.
	5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
	6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content.	File:Mahmud Hasan Deobandi.jpg - PD image File:Chhatta Masjid (old).jpg - this is tagged as fair use, but is it possible to replace this with a free version? File:Darul Uloom Deoband.jpg - PD image File:Pranab Mukherjee releasing the Commemorative Postage Stamp on Shaikhul Hind’s “Silk Letter Movement” & 60th Session of Shaikhul Hind’s Silk Letter Movement Centenary, at a function.jpg - GODL image File:Maulana Mahmud Hasan gate at JMI.jpg - CC image
	6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.	File:Mahmud Hasan Deobandi.jpg - image of the subject File:Chhatta Masjid (old).jpg - is it possible to replace this with a free version? File:Darul Uloom Deoband.jpg - image of Darul Uloom Deoband, which is mentioned in the article File:Pranab Mukherjee releasing the Commemorative Postage Stamp on Shaikhul Hind’s “Silk Letter Movement” & 60th Session of Shaikhul Hind’s Silk Letter Movement Centenary, at a function.jpg - I'm a little iffy on this one... I'm not entirely sure this enlightens anyone on the Silk Letter Movement. Probably better to remove it and just use it in Silk Letter Movement File:Maulana Mahmud Hasan gate at JMI.jpg - appropriate for the article
	7. Overall assessment.

Discussion

@TheAafi: I'll go through this shortly. From a cursory skim, looks promising! I'll do the copyedit pass first, then we'll go through it much the same way we did for Jamiat Ulema-e-Hind. - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 00:46, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

TheAafi, what do you mean by “where he studied the books of Persian and Arabic”? Which books are you referring to? - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 03:14, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Aussie Article Writer, This refers perhaps what is taught in the course of Dars-e-Nizami; the sources don't provide much detail of "what books they're"; so it is the "primary course of the language". ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 03:20, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Ah, I got it, I know how to rephrase it now. - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 03:28, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Can we get the corresponding year in brackets next to the AH year? That helps with context. - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 03:21, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Aussie Article Writer, it won't be the exact year though, I'll use any tool for the date conversion and add the dates [or give a look at few more books] ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 03:23, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Could we say “around <year>"? - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 03:27, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Aussie Article Writer, yeas exactly ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 03:39, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

What is a "principal teacher" in the sentence “ He became the principal teacher in 1890.”? Does that mean he was a head teacher, or was he the school principal! - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 03:33, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Aussie Article Writer, both words have been used, the exact word in Urdu is "Sadr-Mudarris", which translates to head-teacher, but I prefer the use of Principal as it has been widely used in English ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 03:39, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, we’ll use that. - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 04:05, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

TheAafi surprisingly, we don’t have an article on Yaghistan, any chance you could create a short article on it? A stub would be fine. - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 04:07, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Aussie Article Writer, I was myself surprised to see this. Let me see if I can add a little article ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 04:08, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Great work! - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 04:54, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

TheAafi I’m up to “Jamia Millia Islamia”, will get back to this shortly. Very interesting article, as always! - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 04:54, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

---

@Aussie Article Writer:; The image on Chhatta Masjid is appropriately uploaded and its previous version because of high quality has been tagged for deletion by a bot, I hope @Diannaa: can help us with that. 2: I've clarified the Ahsan al-Qurā thing. 3: I had a one line summary on Jahd al-Muqil. 4: Likewise, I've removed the other image as suggested. ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 11:14, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

I've also added the translation for three books. Understanding the titles Jahd al-Muqil and Ahsan al-Qura is beyond my comprehension. Though, I'll try that with help of some friends who know Arabic language. ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 11:18, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

TheAafi, with the Chhatta Masjid, does this exist any more? Is this why there are no free images available? - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 11:27, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Aussie Article Writer, The Masjid still exists and I've been there but sadly I didn't have a good phone then! If you think the image is much, we can just remove it. It can serve a better purpose on the Darul Uloom Deoband article ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 11:41, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

@TheAafi: yeah, part of our requirements for images are that if they can be replaced by free images, we shouldn’t use copyrighted images, even if we use Fair Use as a reason. Would you know anyone who could get a decent image? It won’t detract forom the article if we remove it. - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 12:18, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

My wife speaks Arabic. I'll ask her now. - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 11:19, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

P.S. Google translate says Jahd al-Muqil means "squeezing effort". I don't think that's accurate somehow. - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 11:21, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, no luck on any translation front. I might ask at RD. - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 11:24, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Asked at Wikipedia:Reference desk/Language#Translations for Mahmud Hasan Deobandi - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 11:25, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Aussie Article Writer, I've updated the translation of these names with the help of my friends, who know the background of these books, and have studied at the Darul Uloom Deoband. Hope this helps! ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 12:33, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

• Rizwi 1981, mentions, "He had received khilafat from Haji Imdād Alllah Muhajir-e-Makki"; and the other source from Asir Adrawi describes the same from Rashid Ahmad Gangohi rather both. The terms used in the Urdu source are "khalifa-ajal", the major disciple. This is only associated with Tasawwuf ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 13:00, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

I've removed the citation from Rizwi that supported the statement partially. Asir Adrawi's is more better as it expounds the things in more detail. He mentions that "Shaikhul Hind has "ijazat and khilafat" (Tasawwuf terms) from Haji Saheb and is considered among the major "khulafa" of Gangohi." The summarized thing is used in the article, He was an authorized disciple of Imdadullah Muhajir Makki and Rashid Ahmad Gangohi in Sufism." ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 13:31, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

@TheAafi: this is almost done, just a few reference issues. - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 04:13, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

Give me some time and I'll clarify the things. ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 04:45, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

No probs, plenty of time! Another great job, btw. - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 04:52, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

Aussie Article Writer, Fixed both issues you highlighted under Silk Letter Movement and Jamia Millia Islamia. ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 05:20, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

@TheAafi: congrats, another fine work has passed and is now GA! - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 22:15, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

Aussie Article Writer, Thanks for the fantastic review.. ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 02:28, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

Aussie Article Writer, can you see why the talk page shows "Review: July 28, 2021. (Reviewed version)."? A three days old date? Perhaps you need to fix the template once again.. It should be showing 31 July though ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 03:09, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

I was able to fix it myself......... ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 03:16, 31 July 2021 (UTC)