Talk:MP-443 Grach

More should be said about the firing mechanism

The article claims the pistol has a double action, and mentions a partially-concealed hammer.

Since it's not described as a "Double Action Only," I usually expect to see something about a decocking mechanism. I do not see that here. Further, the photo showing the pistol broken down into its major components doesn't appear to show a hammer on the frame. I would expect to see one sticking up above the level of the frame's rails.

If this is a striker-fired pistol, which would explain the lack of any apparent hammer, it is misleading to describe it in any of the usual "something-action" terms, as these most usually describe firing mechanisms incorporating a hammer. While I do sometimes see them (weirdly) applied to striker-fired designs, I would hold the position that it is done in error.

I don't know this pistol, but I post this in hopes that someone who does might see how to improve upon the description of it.

Thanks! 50.50.84.245 (talk) 18:41, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

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Requested move 8 March 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: consensus to move the page, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 19:25, 14 March 2018 (UTC)

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MP-443 Grach → MR-443 Grach – The Latin-looking "МР" is actually the Cyrillic letters "М" (Em) and "Р" (Er), which are normally transliterated as the Latin letters "M" and "R". As such, I propose that the article be moved to "MR-443 Grach", to "complete" the transliteration. If it is agreed to, MP-412 REX, MP-444 Bagira, MP-445 Varjag, MP-446 Viking, and MP-448 Skyph should also all be moved. Thanks, RadiculousJ (talk) 14:32, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

• Support. There is a mixture of results at the Gbook search which shows that the error is widespread, but a significant number of books gets it right, so we should opt for the correct transliteration. No such user (talk) 16:00, 8 March 2018 (UTC)
• Support clearly a mistake. Correct all the articles. Well spotted. In ictu oculi (talk) 16:10, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 27 July 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved. Consensus in favour, and seems fairly clear from looking at Russian Wiki and also text on the gun itself (e.g. File:Traumatic_pistol_МР-353.jpg) that they are indeed Latin letters.  — Amakuru (talk) 12:54, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

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• MR-443 Grach → MP-443 Grach
• MR-412 REX → MP-412 REX
• MR-444 Bagira → MP-444 Bagira
• MR-445 Varyag → MP-445 Varyag
• MR-446 Viking → MP-446 Viking
• MR-448 Skyph → MP-448 Skyph

– During the previous page move discussion, it was stated that "The Latin-looking "МР" is actually the Cyrillic letters "М" (Em) and "Р" (Er)". However, in reality, the letters are in fact Latin, and not Cyrillic. They stood for "Mechanical Plant". This fact can be found on the Russian version of the page: "Буквы MP следует читать как латинские буквы, которые являются сокращением от Mechanical Plant (Механический завод)" (Machine Translated: The letters MP should be read as Latin letters, which are an abbreviation of the Mechanical Plant), with this page as its citation. Relevant paragraph from citation follows:

После долгих работ над возможными вариантами конструкции, многочисленных усовершенствований и доработок, готовый пистолет на ИЖМЕХ-е получил наименование MP-443, при чем MP следует читать как латинские буквы, которые являются сокращением от Mechanical Plant (Механический завод). Однако для официальных испытаний оружию был присвоен индекс 6П35. На научно-исследовательском полигоне Министерства обороны России пистолеты проходили испытания на ресурс, надежность функционирования в нормальных и затрудненных условиях (стрельба без смазки, при температуре – 50 до + 50 градусов по Цельсию, в условиях запыления, при дожде). Всего во время таких испытаний было произведено около 1500 выстрелов.

Machine translated:

After much work on possible variants of design, numerous improvements and revisions, the Ready pistol on Izhmeh-E got the name MP-443, at what MP should be read as Latin letters which are reduction from Mechanical Plant (mechanical Factory). However, for official tests the weapon was assigned the index 6p 35. At the research site of the Russian Ministry of Defense pistols were tested on the resource, reliability of functioning in normal and difficult conditions (shooting without lubrication, at a temperature of 50 to + 50 degrees Celsius, in conditions Dust, rain). In total during such tests about 1500 shots were fired.

The discussion simultaneously resulted in the renaming of MP-412 REX, MP-444 Bagira, MP-445 Varyag, MP-446 Viking, and MP-448 Skyph. These should all be reverted. Wuzh (talk) 10:07, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

• Support. OK, I (mis)voted in the previous RM, but the evidence presented now is a real smoking gun. ;) No such user (talk) 12:48, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

  @Wuzh: I added an explanatory note about the nomenclature, which will hopefully resolve the situation. If the move succeeds (and I don't see why not), similar one should be added to other MP articles. Do you happen to have a better source than http://3mv.ru ? Not that I distrust it, but what appears to be an enthusiast site titled "Third world war" does not exactly inspire confidence. No such user (talk) 14:51, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

  @No such user: Here's an alternate site with the same text found within. Presumably the earlier third-rate website simply copied the text ctrl-c, ctrl-v. My VPN is down so I can't view your book citation you added so I won't comment on it. --Wuzh (talk) 16:25, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

• Support move back to MP-443 et cetera per the quotes above. - Tom | Thomas.W ^talk 15:26, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
• Question: If that is the case, why is it that on Kalashnikov Concern's site, searching for "mp" comes back with nothing, but "мр" yields results? RadiculousJ (talk) 03:45, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
  • This might be because whoever types things on their site isn't familiar with the stuff or just too lazy to change the keyboard layout for these two letters. People like these manage to create patriotic posters with American tanks or German soldiers and words "Thank you, grandpa, for the Victory!". The "MP" abbreviation really means "Mechanical Plant", it makes perfect sense as they export some of the models they produce. Why didn't they stick to "IJ" or "IZh", however, is a mystery for another time. 178.69.42.31 (talk) 15:03, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
• Can someone verify that the page cited in the proposal (EDIT: or armoury-online cited in the subsequent discussion) is a reliable source? Dekimasuよ! 00:28, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

• I am happy to close this as a reversion of the previous close, if there is agreement that the sources involved are trustworthy. Dekimasuよ! 19:35, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.