Talk:Métis Nation of Ontario

Disputes about Métis Identity in Ontario

It could be that a separate page is needed for a history of Métis people in Ontario. This is a page about the MNO, not a general history or current issue discussion. Discussions of identity and Powley should be referred to, but not discussed at length without specific reference to the MNO.Smallison (talk) 02:54, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Article is based on the political agenda of the Manitoba Métis Federation ....that promotes an odd concept of a Métis Nation that is limited to areas associated with the former Rupert’s Land and Red River settlements dispite what the Canadian and international community says..Best, Peter (2022-08-01). "The New Riel Rebellion: Who is Métis?". C2C Journal. Retrieved 2022-12-01. Moxy- 01:43, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

The article was based primarily on this group's website, and had a lot of content that misrepresented the cited sources. I did some cleanup to align with sources. It has nothing to do with the Manitoba group. Looking at your edits, you seem to be advocating for this Ontario organization, even going to message boards to try to garner support. What is your connection with them? - CorbieVreccan ^☊ ☼ 17:55, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

Additionally, the link you put in the edit summary as your rationale when adding the POV tag[1] and are adding to the 'pedia in various places, is an opinion piece, so not RS, especially as it's on a non-Métis, non-Native website and, as far as I can tell, the author is neither Métis or Native. This is not a suitable rationale for the template. - CorbieVreccan ^☊ ☼ 19:19, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

Have zero connection just the ability to tell when things are clearly the POV of one organization. You saying we can only use Métis or Native sources? actually ,,we use academic one. The "opinion piece' by a professor was not a source but for basic education. Lets start with some basics Powley Case (note the term Native not normal used in Canada)Moxy- 02:23, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

Well, you're wrong. Over at Talk:Métis several editors are disagreeing with your POV push, that comes on the heels of IP vandalism. While I don't know everyone's background, to the best of my knowledge, none of the people asking you to stop this have any connection with any of the Métis groups. As experienced editors of Indigenous articles, however, we are familiar with a wide range of organizations - legitimate and not - as well as experienced at evaluating sources, and know both a POV push when we see one, as well as behaviour that indicates someone too close to a topic to be able to edit neutrally. - CorbieVreccan ^☊ ☼ 19:26, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

Additional cleanup

I left a few things that are still sourced solely to the group's own website - primary sources only. We can leave some of that in, if the statements are either non-controversial, or made clear that it's their claim and then placed in context. There are also a few sources I haven't had a chance to check yet. So, while I've fixed what initially jumped out as the most serious problems, a bit more cleanup is needed before the flags can be removed. - CorbieVreccan ^☊ ☼ 19:28, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

First thing we can do is remove the misleading quote after the possible migration that clearly distinguishes itself from Ontario..."However, most products of these unions "either integrated into Indigenous communities or assimilated with European newcomers, unlike the distinct Metis People of Louis Riel in Western Canada" who develop9red a particular, unique culture as the sources clearly makes the point that it is about the Maritimes and Quebec"Many critics reject outright that there is a distinct Metis identity in the Maritimes and Quebec". Let's go step by step here. as we all know distinct métis communities have been confirmed by the courts from Ontario westward.Moxy- 03:21, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

The settler-colonial courts system are not the final authority. We also have to take into account the consensus of established, intact, Indigenous communities, notably the Métis themselves. This group has been called out by multiple Indigenous orgs and community leaders for allowing self-indigenization. That's why content like the above is in the article, as well as other cited statements about them being made up of 80% - 90% of people who don't meet the criteria of Métis. There is a reason this group was booted, and is being criticized. They are definitely one of the groups being referred to, even if not by name, in the criticism that refers to the "new groups"; that's why those sources are there. The only reliable sources for actual Métis people in any part of Ontario are for small groups in the Northwest, not these new groups. That's what the only usable sources you put on Métis talk are referring to. - CorbieVreccan ^☊ ☼ 18:54, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

[Edit conflict] "Eastern Metis" can reasonably be interpreted to mean people in Eastern Canada, which includes Ontario. - CorbieVreccan ^☊ ☼ 19:34, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

Ok good so you have seen the sources and understand its one group vs many others. Good step forward. Moxy- 19:31, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

"One group vs many others." What are you talking about? - CorbieVreccan ^☊ ☼ 19:36, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

This is something that has been in the news in Canada for a long time here is a fast overview different groups claiming different metis heritage. Odd they haven't figured things out like the First Nations and understand self identity. Moxy- 20:30, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

Source doesn't say this why should we .... never assume anything... follow the cited source ...no interpretations Moxy- 20:33, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

It's really not a good idea to imply others agree with you when that is not the case; if that is what you were doing. Your responses are still very confusing and I'm still not sure what your point is. Eastern Canada includes Ontario. Sources talking about the new Metis groups in Eastern Canada that rely on self-id, and the issues with those groups, such as those that have led this one to be suspended from the National Council, are relevant and useful to the article. You have shown a clear agenda to try and keep critical content out, even resorting to casting aspersions [other users, see warning on user's talk]. As others have pointed out to you on the Métis talk page, you seem to repeatedly misconstrue what is in the sources. It seems to me that you either aren't reading the sources you recommend, or are cherrypicking bits out of context that, when placed in context, do not say what you are claiming they say, or if are trying to confuse people, assuming they won't read the sources. It makes me look again at some of the IP edits where the text was changed to say things that are not in the sources. - CorbieVreccan ^☊ ☼ 23:38, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

I take it you're aware there's new and old ones in Ontario right? David Chartrand, vice-president of the Métis National Council, says communities outside northwestern Ontario saying are not connected to the Métis homeland or to the culture of the nation. I'm not sure how many times you have to be told no casting of aspirations it was quotes from sources. I'm not trying to remove any information we just need a source that backs up northern Ontario with their point of view included. O well I can see this is not going to get resolved here. Hard to move forward when people won't even debate sources.Moxy- 00:25, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

Wow. Very disappointing to see what's taken place here. The MNO continues to to be part of the MNC. The MNO is not currently suspended from the MNC and the Registry is misrepresented in these "edits". These actions are highly problematic. This article should not be the place to work out your political feelings. Smallison (talk) 21:39, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

Article made the news is Canada.... needless to say embarrassment coverage. We may get flurry of edits to try to fix the problem here. My guess any attempt to clarify maybe rejected has the point of view concerns have never been addressed.Moxy- 00:16, 29 January 2023 (UTC)

Guess we should discuss the tri-council now. Moxy- 22:16, 4 April 2023 (UTC)