Talk:Luxembourg/Archive 1

Archive 1

Archive 2

Nicknames

Hm... Are these nicknames true or just vandalism? Bokassa particularly sounds funny. Muhamedmesic 20:43, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)

both actually. They are the nicknames used in the satirical weekly Feierkrop. pir 21:30, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Royal anthem

The royal anthem of Luxembourg is not the Wilhelmus! That's the royal anthem of the Dutch (and the Dutch flag is similar to the one of Luxembourg, so that's why the mistake was made???). On the wiki page about a list of national anthems you can see that the national anthem of Luxembourg is "Ons Hémécht" ("Our Homeland").

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.165.169.3 (talk) 09:52, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Luxembourgeois

there are some categories "luxembourgish people" but I always thought luxembourgeois was more appropriate? Dunc_Harris|☺ 22:08, 28 Aug 2004 (UTC)

If you do a google search (restricted to supposedly english websites) for "luxembourgeois" you get 20'000 hits, and the vast majority of these seem to be in French ("luxembourgeois" seems to be based on the common misconception that French is the native language in Luxembourg) ; "luxembourgish" gives 100'000 hits (usually for the Luxembourgish language. A third possibility is "luxembourgian" (6'000 hits). All these sound weird and are best avoided if at all possible. According to the the Oxford Dictionary, the correct adjective is "Luxembourg" : so it should probably be "Luxembourg people" - pir 23:23, 28 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I think of Luxemburgish being the most appropriate, thanks to the native language using Letzëbuergesch.Cameron Nedland (talk) 21:56, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Neutrality

I think the Economy section seems a tad biased as to the "greatness" of the EU economic zone. Whether or not it is beneficial to be a part of the EU is completely subjective. Steve Holt! 19:31, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Luxembourg as a principality

According to principality, "A principality is a form of sovereign state or territory ceremonially led or directly governed by a monarch with the title of prince or princess. Another type of principality called a grand duchy is led by a monarch called a duke or duchess."

Constitutional Monarchy and Principality are not mutually exclusive categories IMO. A Google search for Luxembourg and principality returns rather more hits than for Luxembourg and constiturional monarchy. There are also more than 100 hits for "Principality of Luxembourg". If you think the category is disputed, say so rather than removing it (cf. Wales). Rls 15:41, 29 Aug 2004 (UTC)

The google hits are the product of misconceptions based on ignorance of Luxembourg's history and political life. Luxembourg is not a Principality, because the Grand Duke plays no role in the political and public life. This is as a result of the crisis after WW1. During WW1 Luxembourg was occupied by the Germans (Luxembourg was officially a neutral country at the time, and the German occupiers allowed the government and Grand Duchess Marie Adelaide to remain and carry out their functions) and Grand Duchess Maire Adelaide was behaving rather too friednly towards the occupiers. After the liberation, Marie Adelaide was forced to abdicate and the constitution was modified so that henceforth sovereignty was vested in the people of Luxembourg. In a referendum in 1919, the people of Luxembourg decided to keep the monarchy, and the royals decided to keep out of public affairs. For more info you could check [1] and [2]. The Grand-Duke's job is to shake hands with visiting foreign leaders, put his sig on laws made by Parliament, tell the leader of the party that comes first in elections to form a government, give a well-meaning TV speech for Christmas, live in a castle, draw a lot of money for all his hard work and for the rest to keep his trap shut. Basically the Grand-Duke hasn't got anything to say. So the correct characterisation of the state form is Constitutional Monarchy, and Luxembourg is not a Principality any more than e.g. the UK is. As for Wales, most Welsh reject that it is a principality, and it should be removed from the category. - pir 17:04, 29 Aug 2004 (UTC)

From principality (emphasis mine): A principality is a form of sovereign state or territory ceremonially led or directly governed by a monarch with the title of prince or princess. A particular type of principality called a Grand Duchy is led by a monarch called a duke or duchess.

From your description, that doesn't sound too far off. In any case, it seems to be popularly classified as a principality, so I think the category is appropriate. A note about its disputed status in the article would seem to be the best way of resolving this.

BTW I am Welsh and while I'm not keen on the label, I have to concede that Wales is technically a principality (or at least is popularly described as a principality) having as it does a (albeit imposed) prince as ceremonial leader. Rls 20:57, 29 Aug 2004 (UTC)

If the text at Principality were true, you would of course be correct. But it most certainly is not correct. A country is a principality if and only if the sovereign bears the title of prince (see [3]). And the grand-duchy-ruled-by-duke part is bogus, too. If the sovereign is a duke, it's a duchy (there are no sovereign duchies left). If the sovereign is a grand duke, it's a grand duchy (Luxembourg is the only one left). If the sovereign is a king, it's a kingdom. And so on. Luxembourg's sovereign is a grand duke, so it's a grand duchy, not a principality. And no, it doesn't have anything to do with the sovereign having power or not. See the table at Monarch. -- Jao 07:04, Aug 31, 2004 (UTC)

What if sovereignty is vested in the people rather than the monarch? - pir 09:02, 31 Aug 2004 (UTC)

There is some confusion over what is a prince though. From the OED [4], the word may be used as a title of courtesy in certain connexions to a duke, marquis, or earl. Also, The ruler of a principality or small state actually, nominally, or originally, a feudatory of a king or emperor -- it seems to me that Luxembourg could be described as a principality. I've now updated principality -- see what you think. I now think Grand Duchy and/or Duchy could be a category on their own, possibly subcategorised within Principality. Rls 15:45, 31 Aug 2004 (UTC)

The appropriate category is constitutional monarchy, not principality. That's the term which is always used for the state form in relevant publications. This is important, because sovereignty is vested in the people of Luxembourg, who chose in a referendum to keep the monarchy, but the monarch only has symbolic and no political power, his power are limited in the constitution. If you want to create the Grand Duchy category for just a single article, that's fair enough, but please make it a subcategory of constitutional monarchy and not principality. - pir 16:42, 31 Aug 2004 (UTC)

There are articles on states that no longer exist that are Grand Duchies, so it wouldn't be a single article category -- and many of them were not constitutional monarchies. I see no reason though why the article shouldn't be under both the Monarchies category (or Consitutional Monarchies if it is ever created) as it is currently and Principalities/Grand Duchies. What do you think of the revised principality article? After some googling it seems to me that "principality" is sometimes used as an umbrella term. Rls 17:23, 31 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I grew up and lived in Luxembourg for 20 years and I didn't come across the idea that Luxembourg might be a principality even once. That is the reason why I'm very much opposed to including it in the category "principality", and I don't find your defence here convincing. With the demise of the feudal system, the arrival of democracy and the downgrading of monarchs to mere symbols of national independence, I really can't see the use of distinguishing between states that are kingdoms, duchies, grand-duchies and principalities. Had we been writing Wikipedia 300 years ago it would have been informative, today it is irrelevant and anachronystic. Thus, constitutional monarchy is the most appropriate characterisation of the state of Luxembourg (and other surviving European monarchies): it tells the reader that the people of Luxembourg decided to keep the monarch rather than chop his head off, but that he hasn't got anything to say because his power is limited by a constitution. (In that sense there is actually a very big difference between being categorised as a "principality" and a "constitutional monarchy".) That is all that matters nowadays, and there is really very little difference between the the state form of Luxembourg and e.g. Belgium or the UK (although AFAIK, sovereignty is not vested in the English and Welsh, who are still subjects of HRM). I don't quite understand what you want to achieve with your categorisation drive of principalities and grand-duchies (although I can see the point with historical examples).

As for you suggestion that Grand-Duchies are somehow a subgroup of principalities, I'm not very convinced (my Oxford dictionary doesn't say anything of the sort, I checked German and French Wikipedias and they contained no hint either), but I'm not very knowledgeable in these aristocratic matters (it may be more of a question of sloppy use of the English language) so I won't revert your edits to the principality article as the new statement isn't too strong. - pir 23:05, 31 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I wasn't trying to "achieve" anything other than accuracy. Someone wanting to research e.g. the history of grand duchies would naturally expect to find Luxembourg in the list. Anyway, I was going to add a grand ducheys category, but checking the other articles that would be in the list reveals that several of them now exist as something else -- so the category does mostly reduce to a single article (there would have to be an "ex-grand ducheys" cat or something...) I've therefore decided not to bother, and removed Luxembourg from the Principality category too. Rls 22:26, 1 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Thanks. I completely agree with you on accuracy, and I also agree that from the historical perspective Cat:Grand-Duchies is the most accurate, but maintain that for the contemporary form of state Cat:Constitutional Monarchy is the most accurate. - pir 09:16, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)

What a ridiculous waste of effort, is it really not blindingly obvious that a grand-duchy is not a principality? Luxembourg is both a grand-duchy and a constitutional monarchy in the same way that the US is both a Republic and a Federal Democracy. One implies who the recognised head of state is and the other is an attribute of the system of government. To be a principality you need... Guess what? A Prince!... And a Grand Duke, presides over a grand-duchy. No!!! Surely not??!... Yes. Two seconds, two bloody seconds, is all this takes. The facilitation of about a third of the operational capacity of the grey matter in your skull. I've never seen such a strong argument against the value of open collaborative research in all the time I've been using Wikipedia. --JamesTheNumberless 12:39, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

As I understand it the German princes were Prince/"Furst" is a title of independent sovereignty confered to nobles that may hold other titles and who have not yet attained the rank of king in Continental Europe. Therefore, a Grand Duke acting as head of state would be a "Prince", yes? Under that definition we could call it *either* a Grand Duchy/Principality/Constitutional Monarchy.Nickjost 03:30, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Spelling

Excuse my ignorance, but what's the secret plan behind spelling the Lëtzebuergesch name and motto differenty here and there? --Glimz 00:38, Sep 19, 2004 (UTC)

Corrected

EC Presidency

Not that I know anything about the subject, but this line is difficult

It was given the honour to provide the first President of the European Commission, former Prime Minister Jacques Santer. The current Prime Minister, Jean-Claude Juncker follows that tradition.

This wording suggests to me that Santer was the first President of the EC, and that Juncker is the current President. But the article President of the European Union makes lists Santer as the EC's 9th President, and does not mention Juncker at all. Could this be clarified by someone who understands the discrepancy? -Joshuapaquin 00:34, Oct 23, 2004 (UTC)

Problem possibly solved in today's edit? On September 10, 2004 Mr Juncker became the semi-permanent President of the group of finance ministers from the 12 countries that share the euro, a role dubbed "Mr Euro". -Joshuapaquin 05:17, Oct 30, 2004 (UTC)

Glad I could help.

Language

Can somebody tell me what language is spoken in luxembourg? I read somewhere the official language is Letzeburgish( sorry for spelling) . I mean french, german , english, i get it but what do the people speak? If i were in Luxembourg city and wanted to go to public washrooms, what language would you suggest me using? 23:08, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)Xhami23:08, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)

That strongly depends on which people you incounter. There are for example 106000 people coming from abroad every day to work in Luxembourg. They will of course most likely speak their motherlanguage which will be in most cases French follwed by German. The foreign population can be divided into those that grew up here and those came here recently. The later of course will have no knowledge of Luxemburgish. They will, in a first attempt, learn the language that will be most usefull for them, which is french since it's the administrative language (if they don't speak it already). The first group consists mostly of Portuguese and Italiens, so people that speak a romanic language. For them learning French is much easier than learning Luxemburgish. As kids, they learn Luxemburgish of course through there social contacts in school. I have often overheard conversations of Portuguese teens in the bus that start with French or Luxembourgish and suddendly speak Portuguese when they don't want to be understood. For the people of Luxembourgish nationality, well for them living in Luxembourg is like living in Babel. In your family you speak Luxembourgish, with your friends too. You read your newspaper in German or French (both languages are used simulaneously in the same issue, but luckily never in the same article :-), you get your official letters/documents in French. You read the street names in French on the signs but in your mind you use the Luxembourgish one (the main reason why I am very rarely able to help any tourist to tell him where a specific street is). So what do you do when you go to a shop or public washroom? Use French! It's the language that works allways. Ironically, as a Luxembourger you automatically start talking French when you enter a shop since there are so many employees from France or Belgium (mentioned earlier) who work there. Soetimes you notice by the accent of the other person that he/she speaks Luxembourgish (happened to me several times). So if you are not completely confused yet try to get this: in our parliement, the member of parliements are all speaking Luxembourgish, he ministers are speaking French. So whenever a member of parliement is asking a minsiter, the question comes in Luxembourgish, the answer in French.

hope that I didn't confuse you too much. thom

Thanks a lot thom , i think your elaboration helped clarify this matter. so i got this right the native language is luxembourgish, and french is sort of government language. i didn't know that many people came to work everyday. Xhami

Added some content on the language. claudi

It's a tough one, since roughly 35% of the population aren't from Luxembourg. Wherever you go, where there's a crowd, you can be pretty sure that at least one person will be there who speaks French and one who speaks German, fluently. --JamesTheNumberless 12:45, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Xhami, if you look at the map, considering there's no problem these days going across borders in the EU, a commute to the centre of Luxembourg for a German or French resident is about the equivalent of the morning journey taken by a lot of Suburban residents around cities such as London, New York and Frankfurt. --JamesTheNumberless 12:51, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm English-speaking and planning to visit during a small Benelux holiday: given that I speak no French and small German from school some ten years ago, how am I going to get on? Fedgin 13:01, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Everybody learns English in secondary school. So you schould have no problems (at least with perople born after WWII).

I don't think one should call Luxemburgish people fluent in English. Most people (I'm not saying all) I've met there seem to have an awful grasp of English. If Luxembourg City wants to call itself a global city, I think a lot needs to be done to improve English language standards. I dare say even the French speak better English.

I strongly disagree. I might be biaised as I am luxembourgish too, but frankly ... the French are much worse on average.

Very funny discussion. But much more interesting would be the story why the Luxemburger were agreeing to add the french "o" to the name of their capital, their nation and most of their villages. Note: The orignal "Luxemburger" speaks German and is of german origin. Since 1900 less then 5% of the luxemburgish people understood an other language than german. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.211.243.225 (talk) 18:39, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Echternach

This place is described in the text as one of the 3 most important places in the country, yet it does not rate a mention on the map. How come? Cheers JackofOz 01:08, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)

That often happens. Echternach is historically important (second town in the middle ages, important abbey), but it's still a (very) small town (about 4000 people). I think the map used here is the map you can find in the article about Luxembourg at the CIA homepage. Have a look at the article Echternach for more information. PitterB(german wikipedia)

Soviet Republic?

I came across a suspicious (to a layman in Lux history) phrase:

After a 3-day period as a Soviet Socialist Republic in 1919...

A 30-minute web search did not provide independent confirmation of the fact. I looked into the history of the article and found that it was added by an anon on 16 Oc.2004 during a massive addition, so it is probably a valid one.

But the fact is of certain notoriety and requires some confirmation. Mikkalai 21:56, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)

well, since the USSR was founded in 1922, i'd say it's a hoax.

cheers, thomas

I would guess so, but I was baffled by the fact that most of this section (that speaks about SSR) was added by the same anon, and most of the text still sits here. If SSR was a hoax, then the remaining facts thorough require scrutiny as well. Mikkalai 04:21, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)

As far as I remember from my school years, Luxembourg was never a republic. However the situation after WWI was as follows: The then Grand Duchess Marie-Adélaïde was very unpopular amongst the people because she was pro-german during the war (she tried to arrange herself with the occupant to remain in power, the reason why her sister had(!) to go to exile during WWII). After the war there was indeed a strong republican movement which resulted in a government crisis. The Luxembourgish people was asked by referendum whether they wanted to become a republic or whether the already mentioned sister of Marie-Adélaïde, Charlotte, should become Grand Duchess. No Frensh troups involved here, just democratic voting! But I have to admit, I was laughing a lot when I read about the SSR. Maybe we should place it under myths?

cheers Thom

But the quiestion still remains about the validity of the rest of this addition. What can you say? The guy could have slipped a joke or two more... Mikkalai 16:08, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

This isn't a direct answer to the question of what happened in Luxembourg, but in the 19-teens, "Soviet Socialist Republic" was sort of a generic term that was used to denote a Communist government based on the model of revolutionary Russia. It doesn't necessarily mean that the country was somehow annexed to the USSR (which as you rightfully point out didn't exist at the time). Hungary's in 1919 short-lived Communist government called itself the "Hungarian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic"; the same year, an attempted revolution in Munich proclaimed the "Bavarian Soviet Republic". --Jfruh 15:01, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Well yes, soviet means nothing more than workers' council, and a soviet republic is supposed to be a country where esp. the economy is not controlled by capitalists but democratically run by workers' councils (in the Soviet union, they were bodies of direct popular democracy before the Bolsheviks took power away from them).

I hadn't heard of Luxembourg being a soviet replic before and I think it's probably an exaggeration, but I found the following text by Luxembourg historian Léon Raths [5]:

An Däitschland huet et staark geramouert. Den däitsche Keeser Wëllem II., deen de Krich ugefaangen hat, huet missen zrécktrieden an den 11. November 1918 gouf am berühmte Waggon zu Compiègne d'Enn vum Krich ënnerschriwwen.

Awer och zu Lëtzebuerg huet et geramouert! Et hat sech grad ewéi an Däitschland een Aarbeechter an Zaldoterot forméiert, dee ganz stiermesch eng Volléksrepublik ausruffe wollt.

Den 19. November 1918 sin déi lescht däitsch Truppen duerch Lëtzebuerg gezunn an den 20. November sin déi éischt Amerikaner am Süde vum Land an den 21. November déi éischt Fransousen zu Ell an d'Land amarschéiert. [...]

D'Franzousen sin den 22. November zu Lëtzebuerg agezunn an de Maréchal Foch war de 25. November zu Lëtzebuerg, wou hie säi "Quartier-général" opgeschloen huet.

I won't translate the whole thing, but basically it says the following: at the end of WW1 there were increasing revolutionary tendencies. In Luxembourg a workers' and soldiers' council was formed that planned to proclaim a people's republic (Volleksrepublik), similar to events taking place in Germany. WW1 ended on 11. November 1918 ; on 19. November the last German troops withdrew from Luxembourg ; from 21. November the first US troops started arriving ; on 22. November French troops marched into Luxembourg, from 25. under Maréchal Foch. In other words, between 19. and 22. there would have been a brief window of three days without foreign occupiers to put down the revolutionary workers' and soldiers' council. So I'd conclude, it's not a hoax but probably a bit of an exaggeration. - pir 00:59, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

It is an exaggeration that Luxembourg was an SSR. It was only a declaration made in Luxembourg-city by several socialist politicians who tried to use the mutiny (due to low wages) of the small armed forces (called volunteer’s company, around 200 or 300 soldier) on January 9th 1919. But the government was still in place and the situation calmed down as French troupes arrived (Foche’s headquarter was at that time in Luxembourg). But this "movement" had no sympathy in the population as the referendum of 1919 showed. PitterB (coming from german wikipedia)

Merge from Luxembourg

Luxembourg article now has a huge "history" section, which must be merged into History of Luxembourg, while the section should be made into a summary. Mikkalai 04:40, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Done. Please revise for redundancies, spelling errors and factual problems. klodi

Secular?

Luxembourg is a secular state, but the state recognises certain religions as officially-mandated religions. This gives the state a hand in religious administration and appointment of clergy, in exchange for which the state pays certain running costs and wages.

These sentences are self-contradicting. 193.171.121.30 08:22, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

A secular government does not use religion as a source of law, dictate religious teachings, or discriminate on the grounds of religion. However, secular governments can still support religious institutions financially and/or engage in administrative tasks (for example, France does just that, even outside Alsace-Moselle). Bastin 10:26, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

According to the article Secular state, a secular state does not support any particular religious belief or practice (and that would also be my understanding of secularism). 193.171.121.30 11:12, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Secularlity is largely disputed locally. Whatever the laws may say the fact is that christian religions are priviledged, the roman catholic one particularly. Until relatively recently many families had no choice but to send their children to religious class (which is really christian dogma as it's held by priests or christian lay people) as their schools were not offering ethics classes (which are supposed to exist). I actually went through much of the same, at first forced into religion classes as no ethics classes existed, then after some protest having a free hour instead... It should also be noticed that there still is no convention with the local muslim communities yet (in essence the government requests them to solve their shism). A small group (of which I'd consdider myself a supporter) of people is constantly asking for secularity to be finally instored, but considering the close ties between the main governing party (except for a few years they've been in government since WWII) and the local catholic church this is not likely to happen anytime soon.--Caranorn 12:36, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

In that perspective it might be interesting to observe the phenomenon of the Octave in Luxembourg where we have a pilgrimage to the Holy Virgin in the Cathedral of Luxembourg City. During the end procession the government and Grand Duke take part in the procession. They do so NOT as provate persons but in their function as politicians. So, yes the question whether Luxembourg is really a secular state according to a international definition is not so easily answered. Amen Spanish Inquisition 17:53, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

I think that makes the answer quite easy: No, Luxembourg is not a secular state. 193.171.121.30 00:28, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

European Union

Isn't Luxembourg one of the three "capitals" of the EU, with things like the European Court of Justice? Isn't this worthy of note? I couldn't see any reference to this role in the EU. Walkerma 02:44, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

The EU doesn't have 'capitals'; instead, its institutions and agencies have seats (in the same way as the UN). In that respect, Luxembourg City is the seat of the European Court of Justice, the European Investment Bank, the European Court of Auditors, and the secretariat of the European Parliament. It may be worth noting in passing, but its really a matter for Luxembourg (city), where it will be covered in due course. Bastin 12:17, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll trust that you will insert the relevant phrase. I note that the article on Belgium mentions the EU HQ in its introduction. And please forgive my blurring the boundaries between city and country! 03:09, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

I've entered a sentence in the introduction. Another reference could be made in the history section. Bastin 11:59, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Luxembourg's location in Europe

The Grand Duchy of Luxembourg [...] is a small landlocked country in the north-west of continental Europe, [...]
I've changed the location to Western Europe since Continental Europe has different definitions. I'm still not really satisfied, but without the Scandinavian Peninsula half of central Europe (f.e. Poland) is in the north. See image:Europe_countries_map_en.png to understand my reasons. --32X 04:10, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

I really don't understand your complaint. Both definitions of Continental Europe include Luxembourg. Poland is a false analogy, as it is not located in 'northern Continental Europe' by the predominant definition.

Furthermore, if one sees the article on Western Europe, one would see that describing Luxembourg as simply being in 'Western Europe' is pointless, as the term covers most of Europe. The preferred term ought to be 'Low Countries'; unfortunately, for some unknown reason, the Wikipedia article claims that it's only used in historical contexts (which is wrong) and recommends using the term 'Benelux' (which is like saying that it's located in the western European Union). Bastin 09:26, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

cemetery where American soldiers are interred

What's the hold-up with regard to any effort to return interred American soldiers -- including General George Patton -- to the United States? Luxembourg is such a small nation that the inhabitants might be glad to have all those remains removed. Beadtot 02:52, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

By arrangement with the next of kin, it has been illegal to re-inter the War Dead from either of the World Wars since 1951, and there's never been a serious attempt to disturb the Glorious Dead or to denigrate their dedication and courage by changing that policy. Every single serviceman buried in ABMC cemeteries, including that at Hamm, is interred with the agreement of the Fallen's next of kin, each of which was given a choice of three options: interment near the battlefield, interment in a military cemetery in the US, or interment in a private or municipal cemetery of the family's stipulation. Those that believe that all US servicemen should be buried on US soil don't realise that the next of kin think otherwise, and a free country recognises that decision, particularly as their husbands, fathers, sons, and brothers died to guarantee that freedom. Bastin 09:13, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

And in particular it was Patton (not a great man in my mind, but that's irrelevant here) himself who asked to be buried near his men. I'm not sure he considered that to be Hamm in particular, but it would logically have been in either Luxembourg or Belgium (as he had his greatest command here and also the greatest casualties). And I don't really see what benefit we'd have for having that cemetery dissolved, I'm pretty sure the grounds would remain consecrated and be turned into a WWII monument. All such a removal would do would be antagonise those locals who now wish to retain at least some friendship with the United States.--Caranorn 12:44, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps the next-of-kin thought that the "tour of duty" participants would be returned alive and in luxury, to live out their last days with close family contact and eventual interment in family plots. 00:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC) beadtot

Oh, give me a break. Luxembourg would still be a German enclave if the US hadn't sacrificed hundreds of thousands of its soldiers to de-Nazifi Europe. A cemetery honoring those foreign soldiers who came to *your* country's aid in its time of need shouldn't raise any ire to you.

Are you shure? Wouldn't it be a Soviet state? I mean the Red Army was pretty effective too and it was them who conquered Berlin. Still, I cannot see either why we should "hand back" these soldiers. Especially since most of the next-of-kin are older than 60 by now and are naturally dying out anyway. Merry Christmas Spanish Inquisition 17:10, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

National sport

One area where this article is lacking is that of sport. This is despite sport (mostly football, for which I take the credit/blame) being one of the better documented areas of Luxembourgian life. However, whilst considering what to put in the 'Sport' section (which would be a subsection of 'Culture'), I wondered what Luxembourg's national sport is. The article on national sports claims that it's football, but it seems that Luxembourg is a lot more prominent in the world of cycling. Which one is it? Bastin 17:03, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I'd say the question is what is easier to achieve. Have one professional cyclist or 22 professional football (cosser) players. I'd say that football definitelly is the national sport, probablyly closely followed by basketball now. Of course cycling has a long tradition, but there are far fewer clubs and I assume far fewer licensed members. Other types of popular sports are volleyball, handball, table tennis (ping pong), light athletics (not sure what the correct english name is), swimming... Rare but existing sports (organised that is) are among others ice hockey, rugby, american football... And I didn't even consider motor sports, or sports like billiard (a world champion (several years in sequence)), bowling... But honestly I'm not well placed to help much with any (I was quite sportive as a youth but never licensed in any sport). Finally I'd say number of licenses should determine what is considered a national sport and I'm pretty sure football is still no. 1.

On a different and totally unrelated note. I went to town today to take some relevant photoes for various articles about Luxembourg-City. I will probably upload and link them in wherever needed tommorrow. I have also checked out a number of armorials at the national library and will start work on a set of coats of arms to use on the commune pages. Though it is likely I won't be doing them in any particular order (I will create coats of arms of medieval noble families at the same time, but don't think I will upload those before I've written their relevant articles). Oh and I will try to do this work for the entire region (at least well across the belgian border) not just Luxembourg.--Caranorn 21:46, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

remember: tomorrow is in 4 minutes!! So hurry up! Spanish Inquisition 21:56, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Yep;-) Tommorrow as in early afternoon (today), I spent the entire evening browsing through those armorials.--Caranorn 22:04, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Category:Current monarchies

Argh messed up last edit summary. Basically Category:Current monarchies does not contain countries. You will see for example it contains British monarchy, rather than the United Kingdom. Tim! 22:52, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Okay, understood:-).--Caranorn 11:01, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Could somebody please remove the "Luxenburgers (note the spelling mistake) are food, I like to eat them, WHIPPPPEEEEEEE" quote after the language section. Some idiot was obviously having a laugh. 81.132.49.93 21:01, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Size

Is it true that Luxembourg is about the same size as Rhode Island? I'm not sure if I believe that, why would a country be that small? I do think that it's at least the smallest country though.--Emokid200618 22:34, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Definitelly not the smallest country though this is no place to debate about such. Take a look at Monaco, San Marino, Liechtenstein, Andorra, Vatican etc. And I only listed European countries there.--Caranorn 12:28, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Is it true that the United States is about the same size as the continent of Europe? Why would a country be that large? It must be at least the largest country though. Andreret 10:53, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

So how big is Rhode Island? Why would I know how big a fiftieth of the U.S. is? Is it really a good size-metaphor if I have to look something else up just to find out how big Luxembourg is? Maybe it should be changed? How 'bout: if the earth were the size of a golf-ball, Luxembourg would be the size of a carbon-atom on its survace. Or, if the United States of America were a pair of buttocks, Luxembourg would be the size of a mole. Or perhaps: Luxembourg is so small, we had to put in a picture of Europe instead of a picture of Luxembourg because it wouldn't fit.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 142.151.162.247 (talk) 04:29, 19 March 2007 (UTC).

• Among Americans, areas are measured by a peculiar, but easily-learned, system of units:
  • One Fotomat = 125 m².
  • One football field = 42.82 Fotomats.
  • One Rhode Island = 25.152 megaFotomats = 587.3 kilo-football fields.
• Luxembourg, at 20.69 megaFotomats, has an area of 0.823 Rhode Islands.

Just as with Rhode Island ... it may be small, but most people wouldn't enjoy having to walk it. :) --7Kim 05:35, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Map

I would argue that Luxembourg should not be the one and only EU country article on Wikipedia that has a map not showing the EU and Lux's position within it. The sole objector to this so far appears to be Bastin; can we have a discussion based on objective criteria about it? The issue is that (1) the map Bastin8 re-inserts is exactly the same but shows Lux as a circle rather than a shape, and removes the EU (2) infoboxes are not only to do with the article you are on at any given time - they also contain information about related groups of pages (3) the maps are harmonised across all EU countries so that any casual browser of EU pages can immediately see how they all relate and be reminded that they are all in the EU, which is the most important international organisation those countries belong to. Other views? MarkThomas 10:05, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, actually, you're wrong on a number of counts:

1) I'm not the sole objector. WikiProject Countries rejected your proposal. In fact, of the three options presented, yours came dead LAST, with only seven votes in favour (cf. 15 for the old maps and 13 for that without EU highlighting).

2) The maps depict Luxembourg identically. The EU shading is the only difference.

3) The maps aren't harmonised across EU pages. There have been periodic rejections of your personal policy in a number of articles; the articles on Latvia, Malta, the Netherlands, Spain, and the United Kingdom all currently reject your idea, and many others have done so in the past or are in the process of revert wars.

We could have a discussion about the merits of each of the maps, but that's already been held. And, it should be said, lost by the pan-European POV-pushers. Bastin 11:59, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Votes on Wikipedia are not binding, and anyway it was not nearly as clear-cut as you present, and in any event the great majority of EU country article pages now have the new map anyway - why on earth should Luxembourg be different?! Also the EU shading is not the only difference, and also both Spain and Malta have variants of the new map. Apart from all that, you are correct! Apart from the "POV-pushers" bit. :-) MarkThomas 12:13, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Just as Luxembourg The Netherlands does not have and does not want the new map as it stands now. No consensus is reached either in the WikiProject Countries nor on the Netherlands talk page. Arnoutf 13:07, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, it would be better to achieve consensus at the WikiProject Countries page, so I agree about that aspect, and that's why harmonising is better than every POVist map editor and nationalist Euro-hater with a grudge going off and creating their own country maps, which until the new maps were available is basically what has been happening. MarkThomas 13:54, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

I do prefer MarkThomas's map. The EU is after all a political reality - if you like it or not. Also, Luxembourg is one of the most europhile countries - it was one of the only ones (with spain, i believe) to approve the EU constitution during a referendum. Also, it is the seat of several EU organisms, like the European Court of Justice. I can understand the fuss this map is creating on the UK page, but not on the Luxembourg page...presumably not a lot of Luxembourgers are actually aware of the issue. Luis rib 20:58, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Agreed it would be nice to hear from some Luxemburgers on the point - the user most opposed to the Euro maps appears to be of British origin judging from his home page. MarkThomas 21:05, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Well I'm a Luxembourger and I just had to revert the addition as this should be discussed first. It seems to be that the current additions are the contrary of harmonization as it's simply pushing a new map to replace an old one. The EU is not the only international organisation Luxembourg belongs to, it's also clearly not the most important one (I'd consider the UN most important). The constitution referendum (in which I was among the ~46% to vote no, not against the EU but against a constitution that was insufficient to protect social standards in the EU and at the same time would have been written in stone (almost unchangeable)) is also entirely irrelevant as that was not about membership in the EU.--Caranorn 22:02, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, I'm a Portuguese born and living in Luxembourg. The EU is certainly the most important organisation Luxembourg is a member of, since most of the laws nowadays derive directly from some EU directives (funnily enough, the laws and circulars emitted by Lux. authorities which I have to use in my job are quite often copy-paste versions of the relevant EU directive). The current map has been accepted by contributors of most other EU countries; only in the UK and here there seems to be such a fuss about the map. Therefore this is truly harmonization: the tacit majority (including new member Romania and Bulgaria) seem to have accepted the map - so it should be included here too notwithstanding the particular wishes of contributors to this page. Luis rib 22:08, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Check vote at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Countries#A final solution for the entire maps issue.3F, also discussion at Talk:European Union (where we probably should continue the debate. --Caranorn 22:37, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

"Climate"?

Regarding the Luxembourg City climate.PNG image, how is this called climate? Climate infers at least 30 years of weather...what gives? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.201.229.248 (talk) 10:32, 1 May 2007 (UTC).

the art of majerus

To start with, Kutter is of course written with a K. And since the Tate Gallery made a exhibition on him, i'd say he was good enough to be named here along with the two others. [6] [7]

cheers Spanish Inquisition 15:28, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

That'd be good enough;-). I was just a bit worried about the Majerus "trend", interestingly enough he is not at all popular among local artists. But if it can be backed up with a source like the two you give above, it's fine by me.--Caranorn 13:18, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

New European vector maps

You're invited to discuss a new series of vector maps to replace those currently used in Country infoboxes: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Countries#New European vector maps. Thanks/wangi 13:11, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Abandoned its policy of neutrality?

From the article... "During World War II, Luxembourg abandoned its policy of neutrality, when it joined the Allies in fighting Germany." This doesn't make a whole lot of sense, since it had already been invaded by Germany, and self-defense is not usually considered to violate a neutrality policy. (E.g. Switzerland had plans in both WWI and WWII to work with the French if the Germans invaded.) Should there be a source and/or a clearer explanation for this sentence? -- Eye of Sauron 18:38, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Luxembourg's neutrality is usually assumed to have ended when its constitutional amendment to that effect was made (28 April 1948), and I suggest that it be changed to reflect the fact that, whilst it did fight in the Second World War on the side of the Allies, it was still constitutionally-bound to neutrality for another few years. This either refers to the actual combat (which is a fallacy, as is evident in the Switzerland example) or to Luxembourg signing the Atlantic Charter (24 September 1941). Bastin 18:45, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Coat of Arms

I am currently in the process of turning the coat of arms of Luxembourg into an SVG (yes, you did read that right!). I just thought I'd mention it here in case anyone else was thinking of doing it. CarrotMan 07:13, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Question about largest production company in Europe

Just wondering if that is false as BBC is the largest production company in the world and England is in Europe. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.129.191.19 (talk) 15:12, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

• RTL is the Europe's largest TV and Radio Broadcaster in Europe with 42 TV channels and 32 Radio stations in 10 countries. It is the world's leader in terms of Content (Production & Rights) with over 10,000 hours of programming per year and more than 300 programmes in 22 countries. It also produces number one prime-time shows for major broadcasters in almost every major TV market in the world. It is finally the largest independent distribution company outside the US and holds broadcasting rights for 19,000 programming hours in 150 countries worldwide. The BBC is the largest broadcaster in the world in terms of audience numbers and revenue. Being the largest worldwide doesn't make you the largest on the European market. --Scotchorama (talk) 14:26, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Edit request

{{editprotected}}

Please add {{main|History of Luxembourg}} to the "History of Luxembourg" section. 12:16, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

 Done Tuvok[^T@lk/_Improve] 12:19, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Latin Europe

Hello Luxembourg/Archive 1! There is a vote going on at Latin Europe that might interest you. Please everyone, do come and give your opinion and votes. Thank you. The Ogre (talk) 20:46, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Moldavian-Luxembourgish relations

Hello there! Anybody aware of a treaty that was signed between Moldavian Prinicpality and Luxembourg? There was some kind of defense treaty, not sure when exactly, Middle Ages, it was signed to assure mutual assistance in case of attack (from Ottoman Empire???). Thanks in advance. Please, if you have any answer, go ahead and edit or leave a message on the Moldavian-Luxembourgish relations talk page. Thanks.--Moldopodo^talk 23:28, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Adjectival form?

Luxembourgian or Luxembourgish? Not for the demonym, which I believe to be Luxembourger, or for the name of the language, which seems generally to be accepted as Luxembourgish, but to qualify a noun. Is Jean-Claude Juncker better described as the Luxembourgian Prime Minister, or the Luxembourgish Prime Minister. Are Kim Kirchen and the Schleck brothers Luxembourgish cyclists, or Luxembourgian ones? Does Luxembourgeois(e) have any place in English text? Kevin McE (talk) 22:59, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Just to add a little to the confusion, my French-English dictionnary says "Luxembourger". I guees there are some Luxembourgian (-ish or -er) on Wiki (en) who could certainly clarify this for us. My feeling is that the normal or usual name shoulb by Luxembourgish. --Lebob-BE (talk) 06:52, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Here is a relevant discussion. Please can we do something about the use of 'Luxembourgian' on wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Teutanic (talk • contribs) 15:35, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Anthem

How is Het Wilhelmus different from Luxembourg's De Wilhelmus?

Ahassan05 (talk) 20:08, 7 September 2008 (UTC)ahassan05

The lyrics are in luxembourgish! PitterB. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.93.220.191 (talk) 15:20, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Ethnicity

From the article: "The native population has a Celtic base with a French and Germanic blend." Couldn't find this in the quoted reference (CIA factbook, which anyway is not a reliable source), it now just says "Luxembourgers", as though these were an ethnicity on their own. In my opinion, this is plain nonsense and needs to be deleted from the article. The Luxembourgers are of German (or if you don't like that: Germanic) origin. The celtic influence on the ethnic composition of Europe is a matter of debate. Archeological evidence of Celts is common in much of Central Europe and does not make South Germans, Luxembourgers or French people of Celtic origin. Ulmensis (talk) 13:09, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

about luxemborg

What I just want to say is that through what I read about luxemborg, the most language spoken is french, but is there know english in transaction? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.209.162.252 (talk) 18:58, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

GDP

actually, I think Luxembourg still has the highest GDP per capita in the world as it did before, rather than having the second highest —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.168.170.163 (talk) 15:40, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Government and Politics

The term "Governor" is used here. Who would this be? Could it be the same person as the "Grand Duke" who is mentioned later in the same sentence? Going one step further, what kind of judicial approval does he need? --BarendCanada (talk) 14:30, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Luxwegians

Luxwegians is really the most common name for people living in Luxembourg used in particular in Belgium and France when referring to their neighboring country, and certainly the least offensive to the Luxwegians. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Belgiumtard (talk • contribs) 10:21, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Source? Zero Google hits. —JAO • T • C 11:22, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Name

Luxembourg means "shining castle", right? From Latin "lux", "light", and German "burg", "castle, city". But neither is it mentioned in this article, nor on Wiktionary...

--Mátyás (talk) 11:44, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

According to the History of Luxembourg article, "modern historians explain the etymology of the word with Letze, meaning fortification which might have referred to either the remains of a Roman watchtower or to a primitive refuge of the early Middle Ages." There's no reference for that though. —JAO • T • C 11:51, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

According to Britannica, Luxembourg comes from the Saxon name Lucilinburhuc, meaning "small fortress". Maps from the Middle Ages also carry that name.--Scotchorama (talk) 09:53, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Luxembourg or Luxemburg?

Why are we using the French spelling?Cameron Nedland (talk) 22:00, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Luxembourg is the spelling used by the expatriate British community in Luxembourg. That could go some way towards explaining its adoption.Teutanic (talk) 15:36, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I noticed that the French name of the country is misspelled at the beginning of the article--it misses the "o". Franz-Ferdinand, 26 June 2009.

You mean in the infobox? That was just vandalism from yesterday morning. I reverted it now, thanks for catching it. —JAO • T • C 07:19, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Please update

Luxembourg has the second highest GDP per capita (PPP) and ninth highest human development index, according to the sources. It's under "economy". 66.57.44.247 (talk) 00:20, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Alcohol "consumption" is statistical phenomenon? (Under: "Media")

Well if this is not the highest per capita "consumption" in the world then say it. Don't say it is, then contradict it. And what is meant by: "...not actual..."? Is one trying to say "...not true..." or "...not accurate..."?

Perhaps what should be stated is something like: "...is a statistical phenomenon that does not reflect the actual consumption patterns of the residents of Luxembourg..."

---

By the way, this is another (in a long line of) indictments against the private enterprise and free enterprise system. Inasmuch as the publishers, generally, of sensational statistics are private companies and, as usual, exhibit the phenomenon of all private companies that publish statistics, which is that they are not accountable. Private companies can just publish anything they want, in any way that they want, and let the chips fall where they may. If you (the general public) misinterpret them -- too bad. Your fault; not theirs.

Government (where I work), on the other hand, is constantly under a fine-tooth comb, always scrutinized, and must ensure that every stat is absolutely accurate and can not be misinterpreted -- even though millions of people will read them.

Which, of course, requires that government officers pore endlessly over every stat that is about to be published, undertaking enormous research, and taking months to do so. Which then leads to the private sector laughing at us and criticizing us for being slow ...

... while they (the private sector) are sloppy and lazy and inefficient and just put out any old garbage as "fact". And not have to worry where the chips fall.
--Atikokan (talk) 21:12, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Constitution in French?

Why would someone use a french constitution as the source? Can someone add an english source? 19:39, 12 September 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by MPA (talk • contribs)

Maybe because the constitution is French-constitution-based (Napoleon constitution) and written in French?... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.139.226.34 (talk) 12:42, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Portuguese minority

"10% of the population is of Portuguese extraction" -- How did Luxembourg come to have such a huge minority of Portuguese? Was it due to historic or recent immigrations? --Menchi 14:37, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

It's due to Portuguese workers in the Luxembourg EU bureaucracy. Recent immigrations. Since the wages are much higher in Luxembourg many came and chose to stay. Jakro64 07:15, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

Where did you get that rubbish? Most Portuguese in Luxembourg are simple workers!

Most Portuguese people came to Luxembourg as simple workers in the 1950s. Nowadays they live there in the second and third generation and are nearly completly integrated.

Those are not Portuguese but Luxembourgers! We do allow people to recieve our nationality. It's not sacret or something.

Well, not all choose to get the luxemburgisch nationality. Some wish to remain portuguese.

The vast majority of Portuguese in Luxembourg migrated in the 60's due to oppression and economic stagnation in Portugal under Salazar, the dictator.--Sixdown (talk) 07:49, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

The problem is the Luxembourgish nationality law. In Luxembourg, you are not allowed to have another nationality besides the Luxembourgish one. As a result, many second-generation immigrants (incl. myself) do not bother to ask for the Luxembourgish nationality. BTW, to answer the other question, most Portuguese are indeed workers, but the wages for workers are much much higher in Luxembourg than the wages for comparable jobs in Portugal. Luis rib 17:07, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

The article failed to mention Luxembourg has a large ethnic Polish presence, the first wave of Polish emigres fleeing the war arrived there during World War I. Another wave appeared in the 1920's & '30s sought available work in factories or mines, and of course after World war II the flow of Polish political refugees fled communism can find asylum in a neutral country like Luxembourg. From what I know, the Polish Luxembourgian community is the third largest foreign-born ethnicity after Italians and Portuguese. + 71.102.2.206 (talk) 08:26, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Well then, find some sources and WP:BOLD and add to the article. --Triwbe (talk) 12:55, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

A lot of Poles migrated from France after having fled Poland during WWII.--Sixdown (talk) 07:49, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

You may get two nationalities in Luxembourg. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.9.220.205 (talk) 18:03, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Since 1 January 2009, it is possible for Luxembourgish people to hold multiple nationalities. As a matter of fact, if one can proof he lived in Luxembourg for over 7 years, passes a language test, and has a certification of attendance of civic classes, he automatically obtains Luxembourgish citizenship.

Also, if a baby is born in Luxembourg from foreign parents, and one of the parent was born in Luxembourg, the baby is automatically granted with Luxembourgish citizenship. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.130.82.253 (talk) 12:33, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Contradiction on Language

The following two parts of the article contradict one another: "German is usually the first language taught in school..." and "the first years of primary school are in Luxembourgish, before changing to German". Can someone in the know correct this? Lyso (talk) 11:43, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, from talking to someone from Luxembourg I understand that primary school is taught in luxembourgish, the middle years of school are taught in german and secondary school is taught in french.

I think this means that the first language taught in a specific language class is german while the language of instruction is luxembourgish, and later on french classes are taught in german. Needs to be verified though. 79.147.99.27 (talk) 17:12, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

"I think this means that the first language taught in a specific language class is german while the language of instruction is luxembourgish" that's right. Then "we're" tought french (starting at the end of 2nd class). In the secondary schools in becomes more complicated as the language varies on the direction AND on the school subject.

The situation in Luxembourg looks like England under the Normans when the Administration spoke in French (Plantagenet dinasty) while citizens spoke in English. What kind of democracy is that where the people speak in a different language than the Administration. Ridiculous.--83.53.111.247 (talk) 04:56, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Not at all, every ones speaks 3 languages, so they are not impeeded in any way. --Triwbe (talk) 05:30, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

So I see the information about luxembourg is very contradictory here. I am Luxembourgish so here is the situation : In Luxembourg the only school taught in Luxembourgish is the Kindergarden. In primary school, pupils are taught in German, and this until the 3rd year of secondary school with exeption of math which are taught in French from the first year of Secondary school. Then, the last 4 years of highschool (yes we have 7 in total) are taught in French. Luxembourgish is mostly a spoken language, it is barely taught in school (just one class of luxembourgish in the first year of highschool). This is partly explained trough the fact that simply Luxembourg is too small to publish it's own studying material and therefore uses a combination of German, French and Belgian books in school.

Let me confirm that Luxembourgish is taught as a written language in secondary school more-so than before. I was taught German for the first few years with Luxembourgish as the language of instruction, but that is as far as I went. English is pretty much universally taught as a "secondary" language to the main three, and a lot of students take English classes.--Sixdown (talk) 07:49, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Another clarification is that German, French AND Luxembourgish (since 90's only) are official languages in Luxembourg, although roughly Luxembourgish is the language spoken among the native population and French the dominating language in the professional sector (a 3rd of Luxembourgish workforce is foreign); German has a very limited use. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.139.226.34 (talk) 12:13, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Religion

There is a significant mistake in the article about religion. Although in practical terms and government policy Luxembourg seems secular, until today there is NO SEPARATION between state and religion in Luxembourg. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.139.226.34 (talk) 13:03, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Flag question

Is it true that the idea for their flag came from a bombpop? 71.214.233.109 (talk) 00:00, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Sports added into culture? / New section "Famous persons"

I want to know if sports should be added to the culture part? With the Hight of Andy and Franck Schleck in Cycling & other sports be added?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.137.139.223 (talk) 15:31, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Also possible is adding a section "Famous persons", with a.o.

• François Faber,
• Nicolas Frantz,
• Charly Gaul,
• Marc Girardelli,
• Kim Kirchen,
• Fränk Schleck,
• Andy Schleck.

VKing (talk) 20:40, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Participation in 1830 Revolution

Would an expert please expand on Luxembourg's participation in the 1830 war of independence from the House of Orange? I remember from some History texts that the Flemish, Walloons, and Luxembourgers participated. On the map of traditional Luxembourg present here, it shows a major portion, annexed to Belgium, making up most of today's Belgian Province of Lumbourg. I am sure that Belgium wasn't strong enough to do any annexing in 1839 and that it was the three big guys of the 19th century (and still today) who did the deciding for Luxembourg and Belgium. I can't see them leaving a large Belgium in the middle of them, having the major resources needed at the beginning of the Industrial Revolution. I can only imagine the strength of a Belgium today if it had the political stability brought about by three counterbalancing peoples/languages.Laburke (talk) 14:33, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

I don't know if a suitable expert is available, but there's a bit more at History of Luxembourg and more still at the French entry on Luxembourgeois history From there, it appears to have been Louis-Philippe who swung the more francophone western section of Luxembourg away from the Prussian influenced Luxembourg (as currently - in 2010 (more francophone than it was in 1839, though they all speak every language you can think of there) - constituted) into the new Belgian state. As you hint, his motive was presumably more to do with keeping Prussia away from the French frontier than with doing a favour to the Belgians. For the Flemish perspective, you might take a look at Dutch wiki on this. I'm afraid I find Dutch rather a struggle, so I won't attempt to tell you what it says, but since you write somewhere that you studied at Louvain, you will be aware that in Belgium history comes in several different flavo(u)rs. Actually, there's nothing uniquely Belgian about that.

For a really enhanced understanding - and this is a serious suggestion - if you think the French and Dutch entries appear sufficiently authoritative, and add to your understanding, you might be moved to incorporate them into the English article on Luxembourgeois history. There probably aren't too many people with the necessary combination of interest and ability to do that. And translating stuff on paper is a great way to understand it more thoroughly.

Success Charles01 (talk) 16:39, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Thank you. I only just noticed that there was a link to the history of Luxembourg in the main article on Luxembourg. I didn't know that was usual practic(s)e on Wiki. I suppose it gives as much detail as needed without going into primary sources, which is a big problem with the English version. There are no (or too few) references. Perhaps I can help there, but that's a problem too since my reading is from French language sources. Merci Laburke (talk) 18:25, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

first world war

If Germany invaded and occupied it, in what way did it retain its independence? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.189.103.145 (talk) 10:34, 11 September 2010 (UTC) germany lost the war thats how. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.7.130.139 (talk) 12:46, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

cassation

This word isn't English so needs to be translated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.189.103.145 (talk) 10:41, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Yes, it is an English word. It is in the dictionary. 66.183.11.233 (talk) 04:54, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Error?

In the first paragraph under "politics" should the word "Governor" really be "Grand Duke?" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.103.42.150 (talk) 20:02, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

GDP per capita

The IMF data linked to in the first section seems to disagree with the statement about the second highest gdp per capita. It says that Luxembourg has the highest. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.197.45.158 (talk) 06:44, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Most statistics regarding Luxembourg, however, are distorted by a factor of about 2 or ½. For in Luxembourg about half of all employees are cross border workers, so non-residents, which together with the inhabitants generate the gross national product in Luxembourg and pay the same taxes and social security contributions as the residents. Therefore falsified results arise for example for the gross national product per capita or the purchasing power per capita, etc., which consider only one half, namely the population, but not the other half, namely the cross border workers.

--84.166.40.147 (talk) 16:54, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Area

How can water cover 0.0% of Luxembourg's area? There are rivers that flow through the duchy. 98.209.116.7 (talk) 03:33, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Agreed - I think there is also a small lake in the North of the Duchy too. Can't remember the name....small, true....86.45.54.230 (talk) 19:36, 7 February 2012 (UTC)##

The name of that lake would likely be " Stauséi" located in the area of Esch, fed by the the river called "Sauer" And yes, there are rivers flowing through our country but as we are landlocked, we are pretty much a landnation and there is not really anything like oceans covering us up. Then again, o,o percent water-coverage may not be entirely correct but we certainly do not have much waters to show for that cover up our lands.

Hello, The 2011 edition of the Statec-publication "Luxembourg in Figures" states that 0,6% of the surface are covered with water. That includes rivers and lakes. --Roude Leiw2001 (talk) 13:32, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Private Automobiles per 1000 Population

Refernce 31 shows in article pictures of countries that have high automobiles per 1000 population. Article stated that Luxumbourg has 6481 per 1000 pop. what?? 6.4 cars per person? - Check article source, 'Der Spiegel group' lists top ten auto registrations per 1000 pop, and luxumbourg has 640,1 in German text. This means that the decimal point (comma) used in german writing indicates 640.1 cars per 1000 pop. Not 6.4 per person. Just a typo on the placement of the decimal point in the statistic. PS Canada (Kanada), had approx 588.8 cars(PKw-Personnen-Kraftwagen) per 1000 population. New Zealand ~550 ; Gibralter 744.8; Monaco 740.6 .. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Richard416282 (talk • contribs) 16:39, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

File:Treaty of Rome.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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Ethnicity

The article states that "There were an estimated 5,000 illegal immigrants, including asylum seekers, in Luxembourg as of 1999.[81]" This is misleading and implies that asylum seekers are illegal immigrants which is not the case. The right to seek asylum in another country is a right enshrined in international law. Asylum seekers are not illegal immigrants. If an asylum seeker was refused asylum and then didn't leave the country they would then be classed as illegal immigrants. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Council60 (talk • contribs) 06:31, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing that out. To be on the safe side, i changed it to the term used by the source itself and added a link for further background information. GermanJoe (talk) 07:18, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Doesn't the law state that you need to seek asylum right in the bordering country? These asylum seekers travel through the whole european union to seek asylum in one of the richest countries.

Location maps available for infoboxes of European countries

On the WikiProject Countries talk page, the section Location Maps for European countries had shown new maps created by David Liuzzo, that are available for the countries of the European continent, and for countries of the European Union exist in two versions. From November 16, 2006 till January 31, 2007, a poll had tried to find a consensus for usage of 'old' or of which and where 'new' version maps. Please note that since January 1, 2007 all new maps became updated by David Liuzzo (including a world locator, enlarged cut-out for small countries) and as of February 4, 2007 the restricted licence that had jeopardized their availability on Wikimedia Commons, became more free. At its closing, 25 people had spoken in favor of either of the two presented usages of new versions but neither version had reached a consensus (12 and 13), and 18 had preferred old maps.
As this outcome cannot justify reverting of new maps that had become used for some countries, seconds before February 5, 2007 a survey started that will be closed soon at February 20, 2007 23:59:59. It should establish two things:

• whether the new style maps may be applied as soon as some might become available for countries outside the European continent (or such to depend on future discussions),
• which new version (with of without indicating the entire European Union by a separate shade) should be applied for which countries.

Please read the discussion (also in other sections α, β, γ, δ, ε, ζ, η, θ) and in particular the arguments offered by the forementioned poll, while realizing some comments to have been made prior to updating the maps, and all prior to modifying the licences, before carefully reading the presentation of the currently open survey. You are invited to only then finally make up your mind and vote for only one option.
There mustnot be 'oppose' votes; if none of the options would be appreciated, you could vote for the option you might with some effort find least difficult to live with - rather like elections only allowing to vote for one of several candidates. Obviously, you are most welcome to leave a brief argumentation with your vote. Kind regards. — SomeHuman 19 Feb2007 00:45 (UTC)

Is Luxembourg a "country"? Or a sovereign principality?

Luxembourg is an independent country. A sovereign state. Not a Principality but a Grand Duchy. Gerard von Hebel (talk) 19:48, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

govt

hi dear — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.55.105.198 (talk) 09:41, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

Dutch - unnoficial language?

Dutch is listed as an 'unofficial language'. This just seems quite wrong. Not only is the listing of 'unofficial' languages not something which should be done in the infobox, but even if it were then Dutch should still not be the language of choice. English is far, far more common in Luxembourg than Dutch. Luxembourgish is just quite similar to Dutch. Dutch itself is practically never spoken. A Dutch person would never imagine that they could speak to a Luxembourger in Dutch - they would speak English, probably, or perhaps French. S.devincenzi (talk) 04:26, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

I doubt very much that Dutch has any status (official or unofficial) in Luxembourg. In my experience some people in the tourist industry there speak Dutch, but that's about it.... Gerard von Hebel (talk) 19:52, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Luxembourg independence

Hello FactStraight. I am afraid I don't agree with your revision of my addition to the Luxemburg article. From 1815 until 1839 Luxemburg had the same status that the Duchy of Limburg had from 1839 until 1867. Simultaneously a monarchy within the German Confederation AND a province of the Netherlands. I distinctly remember Luxemburg celebrating the 150th anniversary of its independence in 1989! Luxemburg became a fully independent country only in 1839.Gerard von Hebel (talk) 02:35, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Please see the terms and boundaries distinguishing the Kingdom of the Netherlands from the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg as stipulated in the Congress of Vienna 1815 Treaty, Articles LXV - LXVIII: There it is clear that the United Provinces and the Belgic Provinces constitute the Kingdom of the Netherlands, stopping at the border of Luxembourg, which is specifically stated to be a distinct entity in which the King-Grand Duke was free to establish a different line of succession from that of the Netherlands -- which is why those countries are now ruled by different sovereigns and dynasties. Indeed, the Dutch king's executive authority was required to be exercised in the Grand Duchy by a prince of his dynasty who lived in Luxembourg. During the split-off of Belgium, Luxembourg was dominated by political leaders and prime ministers called Orangists who successfully prevented the grand duchy's annexation to Belgium. A united monarchy does not have a separate order of succession for different areas within the same kingdom. If the succession, the borders and the title of the realms are different, the two monarchies are in personal union rather than being two provinces of a single country. Reliable sources to the contrary would be necessary for this article to say otherwise. FactStraight (talk) 03:50, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for your comment FactStraight. The fact that the Grand Duchy's borders were determined in this treaty doesn't mean it became a sovereign state at that point. Encarta and a version of the Enc. Britannica that I have seen state that Luxembourg was ruled as a Province of the Netherlands until 1839. There is indeed a sourced reference on Wikipedia in the article Luxembourg 1989 that states that on the 19th April of that year, Luxembourg celebrated its 150th anniversary as an independent state. I suppose the status of the territory must have been something like a condominium. I will look into it further however. The fact that Luxembourg and the Netherlands had different succession rules in this period does not come into this I think. It is perfectly possible for a subordinate monarchy to have a different ruler than the Kingdom it hails to and that has happened in the past. Notably in Schleswig Holstein were the Dukes of Beck, Glücksburg and Augustenburg ruled parts of the country nominally under the Dukes of Glückstadt (aka the Danish Kings) and earlier the Gottorp Dukes.... The Wiki article in the Luxembourg language version also states that Luxemburg only became a sovereign state in 1839, although keeping the Dutch King as it's monarch. This was a very strange legal situation... Gerard von Hebel (talk) 04:37, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Also I wonder how this article should be interpreted:

"ART. LXVII. That part of the old Duchy of Luxembourg which is comprised in the in the limits specified in the following Article, is likewise ceded to the sovereign prince of the United Provinces, now King of the Netherlands, to be possessed in perpetuity by him and his successors, in full property and sovereignty. The Sovereign of the Netherlands shall add to his titles that of Grand Duke of Luxembourg. His Majesty reserving to himself the privilege of making such family arrangement between the princes his sons, relative to the succession to the Grand Duchy, as he shall think conformable to the interests of his monarchy, and to his paternal intentions."

As I see it the language adds to the previous article in which the Kingdom is defined. It is clearly given to the King in his capacity as King of the Netherlands. Much like the Grand Duchy of Posen was given to the King of Prussia. But we are dealing with a primary source here. We need secondary sources. Gerard von Hebel (talk) 04:59, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

I changed the text of the section somewhat again and added some references. Gerard von Hebel (talk) 13:36, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

This theme may be even more complicated: Luxembourg still had (three up to four) representatives at the Frankfurt Parliament in 1848 and 1849 and was listed as "Wahlkreis Luxemburg" = "election district Luxembourg" (Johann Boch-Buschmann, Carl München, Emmanuel Servais and Jean-Jacques Willmar), three of them - even at that time - still voting for Luxembourg's participation in a German national state under prussian leadership under certain conditions (possibly being a difficult and demanding fact and appearing strange after 20th century's history). The customs union did not cease before the first World War's end.

The sources won't be sufficient, however: de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_der_Mitglieder_der_Frankfurter_Nationalversammlung de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Boch-Buschmann de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Jacques_Willmar de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmanuel_Servais de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Munchen --Nierskiesel (talk) 19:47, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

I don't see Luxembourgs continuing participation in the German Confederation as a problem in this context. The Confederation consisted of sovereign countries. Gerard von Hebel (talk) 21:53, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

External links modified

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French Language Imperialism In Luxembourg

Seems French/Francophone nationalists at again spiking English language wikis to fit their bent... '"Though Luxembourgish is part of the West Central German group of High German languages, more than 5,000 words in the language are of French origin"' So then, weighing up the aforesaid, why not also mention that an hang-over of French imperialism, is that the status of the French language is artificially enforced and kept alive by Government decree. Another kindred example, Luxembourg dubiously being a member of the Francophonie organisation seemingly just to big up French state pride.

PS don't forget to link this aticle to French language imperialism wiki. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.215.210.155 (talk) 14:41, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

Considering that 96% of the population speaks French either as native speakers or secondary speakers (and 71% for German, and possibly even less for Luxembourgish) your Francophobic statement about "artificially enforcement" is false. You'll have a bigger chance of being understood in stores throughout the country if you speak French, rather than Luxembourgish or German, or English.--Scotchorama (talk) 14:15, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

As a Luxembourgish native who happens to be both fluent in German and French, I would like to specify that while it is true that we have a bunch of French words in our language, it is undeniably of Germanic root and much closer to German than French. We chose French as official language out of spite over WWII. As for getting understood in store, you might want to add that this is due to most shop employees being French or Belgian. As for the part of the population speaking French at 96%, that number strikes me as incredibly high. I think we also need to differentiate between native citizens and immigrated population when talking about linguistic affinities.

Last but not least, yes, it is true that there is a level of francophobic feelings in Luxembourg. When you speak Luxembourgish and a store clerk replies with a blunt "parlez Francais!" without saying "pourriez-vous" or "s'il-vous-plaît", can't realy be surprised that the native population does not hold too much sympath for the French and their language in general. I love the langue de Molière, but some people need to stop having that Grande Nation attitude wherever they go, espcially when in a different country.2001:7E8:C6CB:8D01:456F:4E1B:B0D4:CA6E (talk) 20:23, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

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External links modified

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First language at school: Contradiction

These consecutive sentences are contradictory:

German is usually the first language taught in school and is the language of much of the media and of the church.[129] Luxembourg's education system is trilingual: the first years of primary school are in Luxembourgish, before changing to German; while in secondary school, the language of instruction changes to French.[130] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.207.150.97 (talk) 13:11, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

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Mistake/Typo?

Under Culture, Taxes on alcohol etc...

I believe "This per capital..."

Should be "This per capita..."

I cannot change it as the page is locked.

what kind of vandalism has occurred on this page?

who is in charge of making any necessary edits? Does Wikipedia pay people to work here as moderators who make any necessary revisions?

Thanks.

Notable Luxembourgers

I have added "Notable Luxembourgers". Other editors may feel this is covered in other sections, but not all the significant people are mentioned elsewhere in the article...perhaps that could be done instead if this addition is felt to be superfluous. Over to you...Jamesmcardle^(talk) 05:31, 22 July 2018 (UTC)

The demonym refers to all citizens of one country

https://www.thoughtco.com/the-names-of-nationalities-4088817

Please stop. You need to establish broad consensus for this wholesale change. Many (most? all?) of these are direct links to the same word! Please submit an RFC to an appropriate location on this change. —DIYeditor (talk) 17:53, 1 February 2019 (UTC)