Talk:Love Yourself World Tour

Vandalism

Can we get this page protected? The same two people without accounts are doing the same vandalism over and over.Ukiss2ne14lyfe (talk) 18:43, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

Sourcing for attendance and revenue

The sourcing for this seems dubious, and a spot-check reveals sources that have failed verification. Editors are strongly encouraged to review sources and remove claims that are not adequately verified. Best, Kevin (aka L235 · t · c) 22:16, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

I thought if reputable websites reported it then it was correct. If not, I can try and go back and look through articles that actually mention by name where they got the source, which I believe is what you want. Ukiss2ne14lyfe (talk) 00:16, 5 October 2018 (UTC)

It's the first time when I am editing on Wikipedia (also English is not my first language) and I don't really know how to edit everything so can someone edit the numbers for the Love Yourself tour? The asian numbers are wrong and so are the Berlin ones. The numbers were reported for Berlin by touringdata on Twitter and the numbers are 24.384 (100%) with $4.305.329. The only Asian number reported, except Japan, are for Hong Kong (also by touringdata) and are 40.168 (100%) with $7.376.232 gross. Maria0215 (talk) 14:04, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

@Maria0215: touringdata is not a reliable source as per WP:RS, thus no changes will be done in article based on the mentioned data. Any data addition/change without reliable source will be reverted/removed. Kleool (talk) 09:37, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

Setlist

On other artists pages I noticed the setlist is cited so all the setlist on this page need sources. If no sources are available we will just have to put a generic note about BTS switching between the three setlists with sources and get rid of exact dates as I've found articles who state something similar that can back that information up. Ukiss2ne14lyfe (talk) 15:54, 5 October 2018 (UTC)

The tour stop in Singapore (19/01/19) had setlist B. Yeonji69 (talk) 11:30, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

• It needs a source.Ukiss2ne14lyfe (talk) 15:52, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

New article?

Should we create a different article based on the Speak Yourself dates announced? I feel like it's like The Wings Tour The Final, where it is the same tour but different setlist. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wasteitonme (talk • contribs) 15:51, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

• I'm thinking it's going to need a new page since it seems like it's a new tour. Ukiss2ne14lyfe (talk) 18:46, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

According to Big Hit and Korean media, it's not a new tour, but an extension. The tour is the same and still called 'Love Yourself', and this is quite similar to the extension of the Wings Tour. Can we merge the pages together again considering that it is just an extension? Hahahey568 (talk) 20:11, 16 March 2019 (UTC)Hahahey568

You would need sources to prove this as all articles coming out have been treating them as separate tours. Ukiss2ne14lyfe (talk) 16:32, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

-Big Hit themselves treat it as such, the tour page has the dates on the same 'Love Yourself' page. http://bts.ibighit.com/btsworldtour/ Other prior tours that were separate have had their own page. Hahahey568 (talk) 20:11, 16 March 2019 (UTC)Hahahey568

-I found sources that mention it's an extension of the tour, straight from the tour promoter themself. -https://www.livenationentertainment.com/2019/02/bts-announces-additional-stadium-stops-to-their-world-tour-under-the-extended-title-love-yourself-speak-yourself/ -https://www.billboard.com/articles/news/bts/8498863/bts-add-2019-tour-dates Hahahey568 (talk) 00:18, 24 March 2019 (UTC)Hahahey568

DanielleTH these articles state both the love yourself tours are connected and speak yourself is a continuation. Ukiss2ne14lyfe (talk) 13:32, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

@Ukiss2ne14lyfe and Hahahey568: Most independant sources list it as its own tour, see [1][2][3][4][5][6], and Billboard is inconsistent as it labels it as its own thing here. The Live Nation post is promotional material which generally shouldn't be used, but if we are using official media Big Hit clearly separates the two here. Wings Tour the Final is a different situation as was the name for only the last three Seoul dates. BTS have done separate but similarly named tours before, such as The Most Beautiful Moment in Life On Stage and The Most Beautiful Moment in Life On Stage: Epilogue. I don't really see a difference between those two and the Love Yourself and Speak Yourself tours. DanielleTH ^{(Say hi!)} 21:34, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

DanielleTH I wouldn't really consider those sources (Elite Daily, Popcrush) more reputable than the concert initiator and tour promoter themselves (Big Hit, LiveNation). I don't know what you mean by saying LiveNation promotional material is not allowed when they are Big Hit's tour promoters and more reliable than those other websites. All of those sources just take from BigHit's and LiveNation's information, even Forbes, with probably no confirmation from Big Hit. As for the TMBMIL tours, Big Hit has an entirely separate website for the two TMBIL tours, they even have separate branding and set lists, that's why that tour is not considered the same. Big Hit starts an entirely different website when they start new tours. The page for the LY tour is all one page and the distinction between them is most likely there because there was a considerable amount of time between them as well as considerable difference in the size of the venues. I fail to see why the Wings Tour is not being separated because of it only being three dates and in Seoul, and why it matters in this case because by the previous logic they should also be split. Big Hit usually always separates tours by starting in Seoul and ending in Seoul. I feel like the reasoning to separate these tours is based on your personal views and I don't think this should be an issue, when it is evident it is an extension. Hahahey568 (talk) 05:29, 26 March 2019 (UTC)Hahahey568

@Hahahey568: Big Hit separates the two and has never labeled it as an extension. If they have, I'm open to seeing it. The reason why promotional material shouldn't be used as a source is per WP:RS, it's not neutral. But just to keep with LiveNation for a moment, if we're using them, they're also inconsistent. They label Speak Yourself as its own tour here, and never mention it's an extension. The first live nation source you link calls it an "extended title", not an extension to the tour. If you read further down, it says the extension is the added stadium dates. "Group continues to extend their unprecedented worldwide stadium tour." Love Yourself 1 was not a stadium tour, and it is never mentioned in the article. Why would Live Nation mention the previous tour, given it was promoted by Powerhouse Live, who is unrelated to Live Nation? If you have concerns with the reliability of the two sources I listed, fine, but that doesn't change the additional four that I linked, as well as the Billboard article. I mention what non-affiliated, independent sources are using because that's what's used on Wikipedia. And you say Forbes, and all the sources, get their information from Big Hit/Live Nation. However, only one of the articles mentions Live Nation (not Forbes) and three of them embed BH's tweet, however, BH has not officially stated what they consider the tour to be. None of them says they got their information directly from either.

As a separate point, how are past trends, such as ending the tour in Seoul or setting up different websites, relevant? And, to be clear, always ending is Seoul is false, look at the list of BTS concert tours. You can guess why the tours have separate labels, or why BH set the website up the way they did, but if it's not been officially stated by Big Hit, I don't see how it's relevant to the discussion. You claim it is my opinion, which, of course it is, and it's your opinion they should be separated, all you would like. However, you have provided two sources, both of which have been proven to be inconsistent with the label, and have not added any more. If you find independent, reliable sources that consistently call Speak Yourself an extension, I'd be open to discussing this more. DanielleTH ^{(Say hi!)} 15:38, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

@DanielleTH: would these articles (will update list if more are released) - [7][8], which use "extended" be enough? (elitedaily mentions a press release by BigHit being the source):

"BTS is set to take the world by storm in May and June with their extended BTS WORLD TOUR ‘LOVE YOURSELF : SPEAK YOURSELF’ spanning eight stadiums across North and South America, Europe, and Asia" Kleool (talk) 18:48, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

Hi DanielleTH, Big Hit just released a press release in conjunction with Columbia Records that labels the 'Speak Yourself' Tour as an extension of the Love Yourself tour. https://twitter.com/AOmelas/status/1110956706949926912 Hahahey568 (talk) 19:23, 27 March 2019 (UTC)Hahahey568

@Hahahey568: We can't really use that given that it's not located on a platform we can cite, and it can't be verified that it's real, even it appears to be. If you would like to know my reasoning, I split the pages because it was being advertised as separate tour, and also because the page was incredibly confusing. See this version. The information was lumped together for Speak Yourself and Love Yourself, and a reader looking for information on the former would have to dig through a lot of unrelated information on the latter. If it's an extension, it's still it's own thing, and I'm strongly opposed to presenting it like it is not. So here's what I propose: separate sections, same page. See songs with numerous versions, like "Valerie". With the infobox and everything.

And, for the record, I very much don't appreciate accusations like these. I am human, please treat me as such. DanielleTH ^{(Say hi!)} 22:10, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

@DanielleTH:Yeah, my apologies, I didn't mean any malicious intent when linking that but I'm sorry if you felt that way. Just for clarification, I didn't tweet that, but I saw it and thought it was relevant to show how many also feel the same way and how it's not just me that thinks this way (which is my main reason of bringing this argument up in the first place, because multiple people brought it up to me). But I think that version you linked looks pretty good. I think having it on the same page and all under the Love Yourself Tour umbrella is closer to how Big Hit wants the tour to be presented.

Also, that press release can actually be verified to be real. The people that have access to these press releases would just have to be directly contacted to show where they got it in the first place, like that person who tweeted that or their connections.Hahahey568 (talk) 00:51, 28 March 2019 (UTC)Hahahey568

@Hahahey568: I'm aware that they can verify it, but we cannot cite a Twitter screenshot. We'd have to cite an officially released online version or it's useless to us. Anyways, they should be merged now. As a quick addition, if someone on Twitter has concerns with Wikipedia articles, they're welcome to use an account to voice them or share their thoughts anonymously as an IP address. Discussion on Twitter does not change Wikipedia articles, talk page discussion does. DanielleTH ^{(Say hi!)} 03:20, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

Oh, and just so we're clear, if you have your own thoughts you'd like to share, Soul Maps, please do. And I'm not a wiki admin. Just a regular editor, who wrote the the information about the Speak Yourself leg and merged them. I'm not illiterate to Twitter. I put a lot of effort into the BTS articles I write and help with, and if you have concerns, you're welcome to edit them yourself, Hahahey568. DanielleTH ^{(Say hi!)} 03:34, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

@DanielleTH: Lol she doesn't read the Talk page, she just sees what I tell her so she probably won't see this, and trust me it's not that deep. Thank you for all the work you do with BTS articles!

All the news after the first tour ended are writing the tour is finished and ended, with the final numbers of the final leg if the tour in Asia, and writing that the Band will go on another tour starting in May,it clearly the two tours are different so why still gathering it in one article and separate the tables? I've never seen anything like this in any tour page in Wikipedia, separating the dates?! GD.BB (talk) 02:53, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

GD.BB I've barely seen any new articles regarding their tour. All I've seen is [9] which is a tabloid and does not mention the tour ending only that BTS are back for a tour. Also, just because you have not seen it before does not make it grounds for being incorrect. The format of other pages does not control all pages per wiki guidelines. Big Hit themselves have called it an extention and Big Hit is the one who is running the tour. Ukiss2ne14lyfe (talk) 13:33, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

Many Korean news came about the tour ending, including Naver who Big Hit themselves retweeted the article on their account, and many other Korean articles you can check. I beg the difference, there are standards to be followed in all pages, and having multiple tables for dates isn't one of them, there are many artists who've done series of tours like this and all related, but in Wikipedia we never counted them as one, but as separate. And in BTS case the Era of their "Love yourself" series it clearly over, as they starting a new Era, that will be followed immediately by new tour,so it's whole new tour which I'm pretty sure have a whole new setlist and stages, so how can anyone count them together? GD.BB (talk) 21:54, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

@GD.BB: Correct, there are standards, but as Wikipedia says, break the rules. It's very common for articles to separate sections like this. Look at Old Town Road. The remix and the song are on *one* page, with separate sections and infoboxes. Ignore all rules is a Wikipedia policy, and as WP:BURO states, while guidelines should be heavily considered they are not the letter of the law. Take pages on a case-by-case basis. There is a pretty lengthy discussion about this above so I invite you to read it. If you still disagree, I invite you to do a split proposal. DanielleTH ^{(Say hi!)} 20:53, 14 April 2019 (UTC)

@DanielleTH: This move is very common in singles only, every notable remix always have separate section on the song page, but not for tours, as I said and listed links, they stated the tour end with the last Asia leg, and the new tour will start with new album and new Era. I'll try to do that. GD.BB (talk) 01:16, 16 April 2019 (UTC)

Awards Section

In France BTS won Ticket of The Year 2018 organized by Ticketmaster and they also won Global ticket of the year 2018. — Preceding unsigned comment added by NTOS (talk • contribs) 10:28, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

• I can add global ticket of the year but not ticket of the year. There were no articles made about it to make it an important award. Ukiss2ne14lyfe (talk) 14:43, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

• • I found this article about Ticketmaster France Global Ticket award. They were also nominated for Most Awaited Event of 2019. --Chiya⁹² 17:20, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

Okay, I added to the article. Ukiss2ne14lyfe (talk) 18:40, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

References

Speak yourself associated albums

@Hahahey568: @DanielleTH: Since the Map of the Soul Tour info has been released, I would like to propose a change to the Love Yourself: Speak Yourself infobox's associated album from MOTS: Persona to the Love Yourself series + Face Yourself. The tour dates were announced prior to any information on Persona was released and none of the branding (e.g., name) indicates that Speak Yourself was intended to promote Persona. Though the tour commenced after the release of Persona and its setlist contains some of Persona's songs, the setlist also contains songs from other eras (e.g., HYYH, Wings) and was primarily focused on the Love Yourself era. Thoughts?

Synopsis

Can somebody write a synopsis using this sources?

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-live-reviews/bts-citi-field-live-review-733759/ https://ew.com/concerts/2019/05/05/bts-love-yourself-speak-yourself-tour-review/ https://www.nme.com/reviews/bts-love-yourself-speak-yourself-final-seoul-olympic-stadium-review-2562442 https://variety.com/2019/music/news/concert-review-bts-warm-up-a-chilly-chicago-night-with-sold-out-stadium-show-1203212218/ https://variety.com/2019/music/reviews/bts-dazzle-london-wembley-stadium-concert-review-1203231114/ kitb (talk) 10:08, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

@Carlobunnie

You're the only person I can think of.

I just want to know if you're up for it. kitb (talk) 15:10, 25 February 2023 (UTC)

I don't mind assisting but can't do it asap. Is it an urgent priority for you? Or can it wait until I'm finished with some other pages I'm currently working on? You could also take a crack at it yourself, even if it needs additional improvements afterwards. it would be a good way for you to gain experience writing them. Existing tour articles for maybe Beyonce, Taylor Swift or Coldplay might be helpful. The editors of those usually do a really good job. -- Carlobunnie (talk) 18:26, 25 February 2023 (UTC)

It's not really urgent. I might take a look at those then and give it a try. It'll definitely need additional improvements afterwards, and that's where you will come in. kitb (talk) 12:03, 26 February 2023 (UTC)