Talk:Louise de Broglie, Countess d'Haussonville

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Thoughts on article: Montanabw^(talk) 04:45, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

1. Will need quite a few more citations; usually at least one per paragraph or the DYK reviewers will raise eyebrows.
2. I'd like to know the titles of her books and a bit more in that section overall
3. The section on the portrait is very interesting, and I'm trying to figure out if she is more famous because of the portrait or for her writing, can you clarify?
4. Also, is the portrait famous because of who did it or because it is so weird (the right arm coming out of her left shoulder, etc...)? Clarify?
5. "Styled from birth (following the custom of her father's aristocratic family)" -- not quite sure if this refers to her birth name, style of title... can it be phrased something along the lines of she was named Louise Albertine, Princess de Broglie at birth, given the title "princess" because..."? Montanabw^(talk) 04:34, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
6. The family tree is a bit confusing, particularly the second paragraph, which I would reword as follows (if accurate) "Germaine de Staël was the daughter of the Swiss banker and politician Jacques Necker, who had been Louis XVI's director-general of finance, and his wife Suzanne Curchod, the poor but well-educated daughter of a Swiss pastor (Curchod had previously been engaged to historian Edward Gibbon). Louise's maternal grandfather was said to be Erik Magnus Staël von Holstein, Swedish Ambassador to France, but as de Staël also maintained a longstanding romantic relationship and intellectual collaboration with liberal political activist and writer Benjamin Constant, it is possible that Constant was the actual grandfather." (Or something like that)

That's all I'm seeing, a DYK nom should be OK once the sourcing issue is addressed, it's long enough, be sure to get the nom in ASAP, you can always fix any further issues while you await a reviewer. Montanabw^(talk) 05:19, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

Also, do I have her name right for the wikiproject above? People with titles confuse me. Montanabw^(talk) 05:21, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

Hey, great work! Now, all you need is that DYK hook... DYK that... her painting shows her left arm coming out of her right shoulder?  ;-) (LOL!) Montanabw^(talk) 04:41, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

LOL. But that hook won't work, b/c some argue her right arm is growing out of her stomach. (I'm not kidding.)

Thanks for all your helpful tips and readings. I think I followed nearly all and drew inspiration besides. My feeling, and hope, is that the article will expand as the rich scholarship on Ingres (and this painting in particular) accumulates with time. I'll certainly be adding more. Nice GA and even FA potential.Vesuvius Dogg (talk) 05:36, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

DYK text

Am I the only one to find the DYK hook,

... that Louise de Broglie, Countess d'Haussonville was the wife, mother, sister, and daughter of members of the Académie française?

to be gender-biased in portraying De Broglie as the "wife of", "mother of", "sister of" and "daughter of", rather than as an author in her own right? I must admit the hook caught my attention, which is what it's supposed to do, but not for a positive reason. QVVERTYVS (hm?) 14:32, 25 November 2015 (UTC)

Qwertyus: Honestly, I'd feel disappointment if there wasn't a reaction. As you probably know, the Académie Française did not admit women until 1980, with the election of Marguerite Yourcenar. Note that I also proposed two other hooks which highlighted Louise de Broglie's literary contributions, but was secretly pleased that QPQ reviewer SusunW opted for my ALT2 hook, which I felt was more thought-provoking. Isn't the point, perhaps, that Louise de Broglie was a highly accomplished female writer of her time, which destined her to skirt, or be skirted by, literary accolades? Vesuvius Dogg (talk) 16:01, 25 November 2015 (UTC)

I did not know that, and trusting the casual reader of the Wikipedia front page to know is perhaps a bit of a stretch. I saw the other hooks and was quite surprised by SusunW's choice. So the point of the hook is really to imply that she should have been a member of the Académie? QVVERTYVS (hm?) 16:09, 25 November 2015 (UTC)

That was my take. As you will note on my comments in the nomination, the other two hooks pointed more to her specific accomplishments, but the SMDH moment was that "she" was almost an afterthought--wife, mother, etc. etc. SusunW (talk) 16:15, 25 November 2015 (UTC)

And worse, remembered today only for that fabulous portrait (note that Nederlands Wikipedia has an entry on the painting but not on Louise de Broglie herself, though it does contains interesting biographical information). In any event, I'd like to think the article atones for the sins implicit in its DYK hook. That was certainly my intention. Vesuvius Dogg (talk) 16:54, 25 November 2015 (UTC)

Very well. I guess I was primed by yet another article I read recently on gender imbalance among Wikipedia contributors—and irony doesn't always come across through the internet. QVVERTYVS (hm?) 20:33, 25 November 2015 (UTC)

I don't think any of us were thrilled with the "wife/mother" angle, but whoever promoted it found it to be the "hookiest" I guess as far as getting the reader to click on the link. I can't say it's great, but then, we could just do a facebook and make the hooks say OMG! Artist paints anatomically impossible image and you WON'T BELIEVE what happened next! (LOL) Montanabw^(talk) 08:12, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

Article, lead, c**tr**k

Well, a very nice article, a fascinating subject, and an equally fascinating portrait by Ingres. I suspect the portrait requires its own article and therefore a shorter treatment here; I hesitate to use the word coatrack, but there is a slight bulge in the shoulders of the metaphorical dress all the same, and maybe it ought to be addressed sometime. Perhaps more urgent is the fact that the lead is very short and in no way does justice to the subject or the text. Half the lead says the portrait is in the Frick, which doesn't say anything about the subject at all. Should be easy enough to amend. All the best, Chiswick Chap (talk) 21:32, 25 November 2015 (UTC)

File:Jean-Auguste-Dominique Ingres - Comtesse d'Haussonville - Google Art Project.jpg to appear as POTD soon

Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:Jean-Auguste-Dominique Ingres - Comtesse d'Haussonville - Google Art Project.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on March 8, 2020. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2020-03-08. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page so Wikipedia doesn't look bad. :) Thanks! Cwmhiraeth (talk) 11:44, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

Picture of the day

The Portrait of Comtesse d'Haussonville is an 1845 oil-on-canvas painting by French Neoclassical artist Jean-Auguste-Dominique Ingres. Although more interested in depicting historical scenes, Ingres received few commissions for them, and found that he could better support his family if he painted portraits instead. By 1845, he was at the height of his fame as a portrait painter, and accepted a commission to paint Louise de Broglie, Countess d'Haussonville. She was 27 at the time; Ingres had sketched her with black chalk as a preparatory drawing two or three years earlier, and begun an oil-on-canvas painting, but that was abandoned when she became pregnant with her third child and was thus unable to pose further. Ingres's new portrait differs from the original in showing her facing in the opposite direction and introducing her reflection in a mirror. The countess found the long and slow sittings wearisome, at one stage complaining that "for the last nine days Ingres has been painting on one of the hands". The painting is now part of the Frick Collection in New York City.Painting credit: Jean-Auguste-Dominique Ingres