Talk:Loki/Archive 1

Loki as given name

I'm sure I've seen "Loki so-and-so" as a credit on webpages authored in Scandinavia next to names like Hakan & Lene -- but, frustratingly, I can't find any examples except in not-quite-reliable baby name listings. I did, however, find this page, which lists Viking bynames. It defines the byname "loki" as meaning "a loop of thread." This may or may not be related to the "closing the circle" etymology. Is it worth including on the main page? And does anyone else know of Loki-as-traditional-given-name? --grant 18:55, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

The Mask

Someone should fit something into either this article or the one on The Mask about how Loki gave the mask its powers.(Odin banished Loki, according to the movie, into the mask.) There is also a deleted scene on the DVD that shows a witch-doctor, Leif Ericson, and his ship's crew at the new world where they buried the mask--which was locked in a chest--in a pile of sand. This was to be at the beginning of the movie but was deleted because it made the film too long. The witch-doctor mentions Loki, as well.

Born of Giants

See dicsussion at User:Fbd for the mixed nature of Loki, who is ranked among the gods by many sources, yet is also born of the giants.

Loge

The word for fire is loge which should be mentioned to show that it is pretty obvious he is, or was when first introduced into the panteon, fire being.

This has been long shown to be an incorrect linguistic relationship. "Folk etymologies" such as Loki-Loge persist, but no scholar has used such since WWII. See also my additions to the page about this. - ThorHT

If I have to hear one more time people assume he is a fire god I am gonna scream, Loki is CONFUSED with loge from the Utgard-Loki myth and is NOT a fire god. I suggest you talk to some asatruar and find out for yourself instead of making baseless false presumptions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.252.26.3 (talk) 13:22, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Valhalla movies

I don't think that "several" Valhalla animated movies were produced. There was one full-length movie produced in Denmark, but since animation is expensive for such a small country, no sequels were made...

Cultural bias

The line I changed (what I felt to be) a cultural bias --Tydaj 21:30, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Blood brothers?

how did loki and odin become blood brothers? (Yosofun 06:20, 14 July 2005 (UTC))

As far as I know, no version of this story has survived. Lokasenna states the fact -- Loki addressed Odin as his blood brother -- but the story doesn't appear anywhere in the Old Norse mythological corpus. That's not uncommon, mind you. There are a lot of scenes which appear in Viking Age art and material culture and presumably would have been recognisable to contemporaries, but aren't to us. There's a lot about the religion of early medieval Scandinavia we don't know. 81.107.37.204 09:29, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Scholars agree that Lokasenna is the only place where it is said that they are "blood brothers", so that doesn't really fit there in the beginning, furthermore as a fact. It should be mentioned as: "in one poem it is said...". The possibility of them being "blood brothers", though may not be uncommon, actually may not be, on the other hand. 200.55.118.233 15:06, 7 September 2006 (UTC) Nahuel

I don't understand that last sentence... 惑乱 分からん * \)/ (\ (< \) (2 /) /)/ * 09:19, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

"Lohho" source needed

What is the source for "German form: Lohho"? It certainly doesn't look like modern German, and isn't mentioned in the German article, so my guess is that it's a very old spelling from very old German sources(?)...

Questionable interpretations

Anglo-american FPTP interpretations of scandinavian myth should not be taken very seriously.

Loki the Aesir

Although modern scholars tend to disregard the status of Loki as an Ás, many texts portray him that way. See, for example, the Gylfaginning: "Odin himself spake with him of the Æsir whom men call Loki", just before quoting four verses of Lokasenna. And later, more explicitly: "Also numbered among the Æsir is he whom some call the mischief-monger of the Æsir, and the first father of falsehoods, and blemish of all gods and men: he is named Loki or Loptr". The fact that Snorri Sturluson doesn't always follow tradition is unimportant. At least his is a testimony of Loki as an Ás.

His status is confusing and ambiguous, that's true, but we don't need to suscribe interpretations, at least not without mentioning other possibilities. I would change the first paragraph myself, but I'm not too confident with english yet. 200.55.118.233 15:23, 7 September 2006 (UTC) Nahuel

While there are some sources to suggest that Loki is sometimes counted among the Æsir, he clearly always isn't - so here again, the situation is unclear. I have changed the article to reflect this. I would be careful of the word "testimony" here, as Snorri is chronologically and ideological removed from the situation. Thor Templin 15:41, 7 September 2006 (UTC) Thorht

I would like to know why everybody insists that Loki somehow belongs with the Jotuns as kin more than the Æsir. It is true that both of his parents were Jotun, but so were Odin's. And if we then count Odin as a Jotun (using the same logic that people use to say Loki is Jotun), then Thor is also pure Jotun, as he is Odin's son by another Jotun. Nobody feels that it is important to note that Odin and Thor seem to be counted amongst the Æsir because they chose to stay with them more than "their own kin." Jotun seems to be more of a nationalistic distinction from Æsir than an actual genetic race, and it seems pretty clear that Loki, Odin, and Thor all identify with the Æsir group. I suggest changing the section that says Loki simply spends more time with the Æsir than with his "own kin," as it is misleading. Also, I'm not quite sure what is meant by Loki not always being counted amongst the Æsir; what is an example of when is isn't? I don't think chaining him up voided his membership, since they even slew Höðr for revenge, and he seemed to keep his membership. LuskeLoke 10:46, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Who put . .

Who put, "He is very handsome!" under the Children section? Weird. I think I'll take that out, thanks.

EDIT: Someone took it out already. Aw. I wanted to do it. Okay. Thanks.

68.81.161.192 02:37, 15 January 2007 (UTC)Non-user Cadence

Question

Is it possible that the words 'Lugh' and 'Loki' have something to do with the English 'Luck', English 'lucky', German 'Glueck' (=Luck), and German 'Luege' (=Lie)? (This would surely explain the function, or role, of these deities (i.e. that of deception), as well as their ambiguity, or ambiguous status: afterall, luck can go either way). -- Lucian.

etymology

perhaps etymology should have its own section in the article. there is already some discussion of loge/fire, and a mention of 'luck'. and im curious where this comes from:

Yet another explanation of the name and hence the character, is that the word Loki is related to the old german verb lukijan, connected to the closing of a ring (to lock it). Thus, the word is connected both to the action of "locking" circlets, and hence to "travel by crooked paths", something that might well be an applicable way to present a trickster god.

i also clearly recall reading that locke means spider in a relevant language, an association supported by the well-known fishing net myth. if i remember, i will find the book i got this from and put it in the article.

it may even be the same book that mentions a mutated anglo-saxon prayer that calls on god, thor, and luck (iirc).

i understand this isnt much use without the citation (i will get on it), but please say something about the closing the ring bit if anyone knows anything. Substatique 07:38, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

binding of Loki

The article claims that Loki was bound with the guts of Narfi. Does anyone have a source for this? In Voluspa it says he was bound with the guts of Vali (no mention of wolves), and in the epilogue to Lokasenna it says he was bound with the entrails of Nari, presumably the same person. ProfPirate 18:54, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

"Then were taken Loki's sons, Váli and Nari or Narfi; the Æsir changed Váli into the form of a wolf, and he tore asunder Narfi his brother. And the Æsir took his entrails and bound Loki with them" - Gylfaginning, Brodeur's translation [1] Haukur 20:43, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Should we then mention that the Poetic Edda and Snorri disagree on this? (Of course, what I really should do is write my damn essay...)ProfPirate 06:58, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, perhaps. The Poetic Edda was supposedly written in the 13th century, based on older material. Since the Prose Edda was written around 1220, that could mean it's likely the Prose Edda correctly quotes the material then extant, while the Poetic Edda contained a mistake. However, the actual manuscripts of the Prose Edda are newer, about 1300 to 1600, so that could mean it's likely that both originally were correct, but that in copying a mistake slipped into the Prose Edda. Shinobu (talk) 17:22, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Einmyria & Eisa?

On the pantheon.org site they claim Loki had a wife named Glut who bore him two daughters: Einmyria and Eisa? I have never read of such a thing. Is this a mistake and if so anyone know how the mistake may have happened?

Laufey giantess

Is it certain Laufey was a giantess? I heard about a theory claiming she was an asynja, which would make Loki the fruit of a forbidden sexual relationship (between an asynja and a giant male), leading to his ambiguous nature, a god of force and change. A sexual relationship between an áss and a giantess never had proven any true problems. I don't know the sources for this theory, but it sounds interesting. 惑乱 分からん * \)/ (\ (< \) (2 /) /)/ * 10:14, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Apparently it was a theory by Margaret Clunies Ross, in her book "Prolonged Echoes" [2], earlier put forward by Meulengracht Sørensen, which doesn't stem from any explicit statement in any preserved myth, but extrapolated from things such as Loki being tolerated in Asgard, despite his Jotun heritage, given a matronymic family name (Laufeyjarson, despite an apparently patriarcal culture) and that he's generally an anomalic character in the Norse cosmology, not easily placed in any traditional role. 惑乱 分からん * \)/ (\ (< \) (2 /) /)/ * 16:08, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

journeyman of sneak?

When I read that line in the article (journeyman of sneak), it looked like vandalism by some RPG nut, but before I kill it, I want to make sure it really was written by someone who's played too much Oblivion or some-such, and not that he -really- was appointed Journeyman of Sneak by some god or called such by some Norse author. Elustran 16:58, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

No, please go ahead and remove it. Haukur 17:19, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

God of Luck

My noweigian family had a handed down tradition of wishing "Gut Loke to travel with you" or "May Bad Loke follow you the rest of yur life", personifying the two aspects of the deity of Luck. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.189.189.54 (talk) 01:41, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Really? I should be relatively aware of Norwegian culture, have family there on my father's side, but I haven't heard anything remotely like that, before. From where does the tradition stem? 惑乱 分からん * \)/ (\ (< \) (2 /) /)/ * 09:18, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Loki as a trickster.

I find it odd that the text of this article does not mention the interpretation of Loki as a trickster god. Taemyr 12:18, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

This is an oversimplification of a complicated subject. The figure doesn't always fit into this archetype. Of course, that doesn't stop people from referring to it in this way, so a mention could be given but exact references would be needed for sake of argument and WP:NPOV. :bloodofox: 00:14, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Zaaro'on

Where does this name come from? I've never seen this one anywhere. ---Mr. Nexx (talk) 00:34, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

It seems to be vandalism. I've since removed it. :bloodofox: (talk) 04:13, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Misleading Intro

The intro is very misleading, biased towards the prose Edda and, in one part, totally wrong:

In the Poetic Edda and Prose Edda, two of the very few sources of information regarding the figure, Loki is described as a son of the giants Fárbauti and Laufey. Loki also had two brothers (Helbindi & Byleist) of whom nothing is known. The same source also describes Loki as the "contriver of all fraud" and features Loki mixing freely with the gods for a long time, even becoming Odin's blood brother before murdering Baldr. After the murder, the Æsir restrain Loki with the internal organs of his children and he is eventually freed to fight on the side of the Jotun against the Æsir at Ragnarök.

The above paragraph is confusing for the following reasons:

Two sources are mentioned in the first sentence, but then in the rest of the paragraph it's referred to as "the same source" implying a singular source (from context Snorri's prose Edda)

Fárbauti is only mentioned in the prose Edda

Laufrey is not described as a Giant in either the prose or poetic Edda

Out of curiosity; Helblindi is an alternative name for Odin (Grimnismal, verse 46)

The above paragraph states that Loki murdered Baldr, which is incorrect; in the Prose Edda, Loki handed the dart to Hodr; in the Poetic Edda, Loki wasn't even involved in this act

The final sentence implies that Loki was bound for the death of Baldr, when in the Poetic Edda he is bound directly after Lokasenna (presumably for insulting the Gods directly)

Loki wasn't bound with the internal organs of his children, just of his son Nari or Narfi (Lokasenna and Gylfaginning)

I'd suggest a rewrite of the paragraph, at the very least separating out the contradictory stuff in the different Eddas. 86.15.128.27 (talk) 23:30, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

You are correct about all of these things and the entire article could use an overhaul, I just don't have the time for it. If you have the sources at your disposal, you are welcome to help and I will assist. Otherwise, it's going to have to wait until I have time for it or someone else gets around to it. :bloodofox: (talk) 07:10, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

A blend of two gods?

According to this annotated version of Völuspá:

Loki probably represents the blending of two originally distinct figures, one of them an old fire-god, hence his gift of heat to the newly created pair.

Shinobu (talk) 10:02, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Lokisday

From where stems the idea of Lokisday? Does anyone follow that designation, or is it just vadalism? 惑乱 分からん * \)/ (\ (< \) (2 /) /)/ * (talk) 18:51, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

The Slaying of Baldr

Unless I am mistaken, wasn't an oath not taken from mistletoe because it was deemed harmless, not because it was "too young to agree," as an IP recently added? I'm going to remove it for now unless I am proven wrong. I am relying on memory, but I did a quick search and another source confirmed my suspicion. Vincent Valentine 11:47, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

I did a little more checking, and apparently both versions of the story exist, and thus I have included both in the article. Vincent Valentine 11:51, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Brothers

Helblindi is one of the names of Odin. So, maybe, in sagas phrase:"Loki has brother Helblindi" means his blood-brother Odin, not alleged real brother son of Farbauti?

Loki's gifts

I don't think any page on the dualistic figure of Loki is complete without mention of all the precious items he was responsible for bringing to the gods. First off there is Sleipnir, which Loki himself birthed. Not to mention Sif's golden hair, Freyr's ship Skíðblaðnir and Óđinn's spear Gungnir. Then there is Draupnir, Gullinbursti, and Mjöllnir. In this way Loki was both a trouble maker and a catalyst for making the gods more powerful. It may also behoove to point out that while Loki was responsible for most the messes the gods found themselves in, it was also he who often got them out of the mess in the end. The big exception to this, of course, is Baldr's death. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.133.166.4 (talk) 09:21, 13 September 2008 (UTC)