Talk:Living in a Ghost Town/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: K. Peake (talk · contribs) 05:45, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

Nice to see such a recently released song in the nominations list; I will review this soon! --K. Peake 05:45, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

Infobox and lead

• Change recorded date to 2019–2020 in the infobox

•  Not done Why would this be better?

• Because not only is the exact date of the months not fully sourced, but it was recorded between 2019 and 20. --K. Peake 06:56, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

•  Done Excellent point.

• Where are the studios sourced from? If it is part of the credits/personnel, then add that to the section.

•  Done Removed as unsourced.

• Remove wikilink on Matt Clifford since his article does not exist

•  Not done Valid WP:REDLINK

• Target The Glimmer Twins to Jagger–Richards

•  Done

• Remove [1] from the infobox since you do not add refs; however, I notice that The Glimmer Twins are the only producers not included in the personnel; mistake here?

•  Done Matt Clifford was not sourced but the personnel section explicitly says that Jagger and Richards produced the song.

• Link to the music video on YouTube

•  Not done I am not going to link someone to Google's surveillance network. Why would I do that?

• There is literally a template for embedding music videos in infoboxes, look through so many GAs and you will see it. --K. Peake 06:56, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

• I know there is. I'm not going to add that.

• See Template:Infobox song --K. Peake 09:52, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

• Nothing there says that music video links are obligatory and certainly nothing about YouTube. I am not going to add a link to YouTube: why are you insisting on this?

• The lead is currently too short since it is missing a good amount of information such as the genres of the song and chart performance; I will order how to add this appropriately below and it should be two paragraphs instead of one para.
• The second sentence should instead be "The song was produced by..." but this needs to be written out in the first section since the sources are there for it

•  Not done I don't understand you.

• I mean to write out who the song's producers are in prose --K. Peake 06:56, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

• I don't think that needs to be in the lead, especially since there isn't any running text about Don Was.

• The lead is currently too short, that's the issue --K. Peake 09:52, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

• It now covers some material about every section below.

• "released on 23 April 2020 through" → "released for digital download and streaming as a single on 23 April 2020, through" with the appropriate targets

•  Done

• "making it the first Rolling Stones single" → "This made the song the Rolling Stones' first single" with this being a new sentence instead

•  Not done

• Should not be part of the sentence and do not have too many uses of it --K. Peake 06:56, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

• I don't understand you. If this is a small thing, please just amend it yourself.

•  Done --K. Peake 09:52, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

• The four year statement in this sentence is not sourced in the body; fix this

•  Done

• You should follow this with a new sentence about the genres of the song and add lyrics information if you can sourced that in the body first

•  Done

• Start a new para here and the opening sentence should start as ""Living in a Ghost Town" was recorded during..." since this should not only come before the critical reception, but should be a different sentence

•  Not done

• This is how things are supposed to be ordered --K. Peake 06:56, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

• Source?

• Well think about it, the lead has things ordered in a very similar way to the order of sections and recording obviously comes before reception --K. Peake 09:52, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

• Rearranged

• "for a forthcoming studio album that the band has been working on since 2015." → "of the Rolling Stones in 2019, ultimately being finished the following year."

•  Not done I don't understand you.

• I mean to change that part of the sentence --K. Peake 06:56, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

• Again, if this is some small thing, I can't understand what you want: just change it yourself.

•  Done --K. Peake 15:05, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

• "The song has received positive reviews from critics" → "The song received generally positive reviews from music critics" with the appropriate target and add what was praised/commented on

•  Done

• The following sentence should mention some of the notable chart positions of the song

•  Not done this is arbitrary

• No it is not, since the lead is too short currently --K. Peake 07:13, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

• Saying that the lead is short is one thing but the remedy is not to insert original research.

• I literally never said that... --K. Peake 09:52, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

• What are objectively "notable chart positions"? This is the point I'm making.

• Last sentence of this para should be about the accompanying music video

•  Done

Recording and composition

• Retitle to Background and composition

•  Not done No need

• This is more about background on the song than recording, though they are very similar so change to background and composition --K. Peake 07:13, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

• I disagree. If this matters so much, someone else can change it.

• "Since 2017, the band had been" → "Since 2017, the Rolling Stones had been"

•  Done

• "but had to stop" → "but had to stop touring in 2020"

•  Done

• "to raise money" → "helping raise money"

•  Done

• "during the crisis." → "during the pandemic."

•  Not done: overuse of the word "pandemic"; no need to repeat it over and over again

• "On 23 April, the band released 'Living in a Ghost Town' online." → "On 23 April of that year, the band released "Living in a Ghost Town" as a single." with the target

•  Not done I have no clue why you keep writing "with the target"...?

• When I write "the target", that refers to directing word(s) to a certain Wikipedia page --K. Peake 07:13, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

• That makes less sense: what are "directing words"?

• I mean the words being DIRECTED to a Wikipedia article, it is like a wikilink basically. This should not be hard to understand... --K. Peake 09:47, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
• Sometimes you include this language and sometimes you just write "finished remotely and is their" → "finished remotely, marking their" so that makes it confusing. I have never seen anyone refer to "directing words" in Wikipedia.

• "finished remotely and is their" → "finished remotely, marking their"

•  Done

• "Jagger claims to have" → "Mick Jagger, a founder member of the Rolling Stones, claimed to have" with the appropriate wikilink

•  Done mostly

• "to social distancing as a method" → "to social distancing, which has been used as a method"

•  Done

• "being a ghost existing after" → "being a ghost after"

•  Done

• "labeled 'Living in a Ghost Town' as" → "labeled "Living in a Ghost Town" as"

•  Not done this is written in British English

• You are supposed to use the same speech marks ("") in British English --K. Peake 07:13, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

• Quotation_mark#In_English

• "'gentle blues-rock number'." → ""gentle blues-rock number"."

•  Not done en-GB

• "'a slow-paced chug with a tint of reggae'," → ""a slow-paced chug with a tint of reggae","

•  Not done en-GB

• "Alexis Petridis of The Guardian" → "Alexis Petridis from The Guardian"

•  Done

• "'vintage reggae flavour' in" → ""vintage reggae flavour" to"

•  Not done en-GB

• "'stabbing, echoing organ'," → ""stabbing, echoing organ"," with the target

•  Not done en-GB, common term

• Target Louder Sound to Metal Hammer

•  Not done Valid redirect.

• It does not meet MOS:LINK2SECT, since it is a redirect to a main article so I am disputing you here --K. Peake 07:13, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

• It's not under the "Metal Hammer" brand or at that domain name.

• You are supposed to have it directed to the non-redirect... --K. Peake 09:47, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

• Does WP:TARGET say that? Where are you getting this?

• "calling it 'a relaxed piece of reggae-infused rock'." → "called it "a relaxed piece of reggae-infused rock"." with the target

•  Not done everyone is familiar with rock music and adding links inside of quotations is discouraged

• It is fine in this context and genres are supposed to be targeted to themselves --K. Peake 07:13, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

• Again, "rock" is a very common term.

• In the context of it being the specific genre, this target is appropriate --K. Peake 09:48, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

• Add some info about the lyrical content of the song after this genre description

•  Not done There already is some, I don't have anything else sourced to add here.

Release and reception

• "The initial release was digital-only, accompanied" → "The song was initially released for digital download and streaming as a single on 23 April 2020, being accompanied"

•  Done

• Wikilink music video

•  Done

• "with footage taken from across the world of empty city streets." → "with footage of empty city streets that was taken from across the world."

•  Done

• "The band have plans to resume No Filter once the pandemic subsides" → "Once the pandemic subsides, the Rolling Stones plan to resume the No Filter Tour"

•  Done

• "the single is a means of keeping" → "the single was done to keep"

•  Not done This is less clear: it's the release not the "doing" of the single that is relevant.

• "promoting the album's worth of new material" → "for promotion of their upcoming album"

•  Done

• "and purple vinyl single exclusive" → "and purple vinyl, both of which are exclusive" with the target

•  Done

• "online store and an orange vinyl single for" → "online store, and an orange vinyl for sale by"

•  Done

• Are you sure the releases are still forthcoming since they are apparently out now?

• No.

• Make sure this is updated in prose then --K. Peake 07:13, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

•  Done

• "Writing in The Guardian, Alexis Petridis gave" → "Petridis rewarded"

•  Done

• "it 'their best new song in years', with" → "it the Rolling Stones' "best new song in years", placing"

•  Done

• Remove wikilink on reggae

•  Done

• "Writing for The Irish Times, Will Hodginkson of The Times gave" → "Hodginkson gave"

•  Done

• "that the pacing and mood" → "that the song's pacing and mood"

•  Done

• "of being in lockdown." → "of being in lockdown during the pandemic."

•  Done

• "agrees that the single" → "opined that the single"

•  Done

• "'right on time'" → ""right on time","

•  Not done en-GB

• The NME review should come last in this para since it is the most critical review

•  Not done How does that make sense?

• Because reviews come in order from most positive to most negative if it is generally positive, or the other way around if generally negative --K. Peake 07:13, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

• Source?

• Wikipedia:Copyediting reception sections#Example 2: True Detective (season 1) --K. Peake 09:46, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

• This is an essay, there is nothing normative here.

• "a 'a rushed and half-baked comment on our current predicament'," → ""a rushed and half-baked comment on our current predicament","

•  Not done en-GB

• "as 'Jagger perhaps doesn’t" → "noting that "Jagger perhaps doesn't"

•  Not done en-GB

• "fishnet safety packages'." → "fishnet safety packages"."

•  Not done en-GB

• "of the week and" → "of the week, and"

•  Not done en-GB

• The comma is needed here grammatically --K. Peake 07:13, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

• Good point: sorry for that.

• "recommended this track." → "recommended the track."

•  Not done en-GB

• It is more encyclopaedic to write "the track" --K. Peake 07:13, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

• I disagree but my reasoning above was faulty again.

• "Announcing the release for Stereogum, Tom Breihan" → "For Stereogum, Tom Breihan"

•  Done

• "but it 'rocks harder" → "but "rocks harder"

•  Not done en-GB

• The word "it" is not needed here --K. Peake 07:13, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

• Wow. Again, I was just wrong.

• "song to rock'." → "song to rock"."

•  Not done en-GB

• "On 3 July," → "On 3 July 2020,"

•  Done

• Target German singles chart to GfK Entertainment charts

•  Done

• "after the song was released on vinyl in several different special editions," → "after several different special editions were released for the song,"

•  Done

• "on this chart and the artist with the" → "on the chart and giving them the"

•  Done

• "after "Jumpin' Jack Flash" reached" → "following on from "Jumpin' Jack Flash" reaching"

•  Done

• "than in the past few weeks" → "than they were for the past few weeks"

•  Done

• "in the German Charts is purely sales-dependent and does" → "for the German Charts being purely sales-dependent; it does"

•  Done

• Add more chart positions that are notable here, such as Scotland and Hungary

•  Not done How are some "more notable"? Where is any narrative text about the Hungarian charts?

• No, but you can write out in prose about the song reaching positions on charts --K. Peake 07:13, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

• That's redundant and doesn't give any meaningful context. The German charts one does but I don't have any for the Hungarian charts.

• The chart positions are obviously notable when they are a high ranking, this should be clear --K. Peake 09:46, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

• There's still nothing to write.

Personnel

• Where are the studios?

•  Not done I don't know and studios aren't persons

• There is no source for the Rolling Stones credits; add at the top of the section "Credits adapted from..." and then provide the appropriate source there

•  Done

• Where are the mentions of the Glimmer Twins members?

•  Done

• Remove redundant wikilinks

•  Not done: it's fine to link to someone's name in a list; otherwise, the list would look unbalanced

• Target engineering to Audio engineer

•  Done

Charts

• Chart performance for 'Living in a Ghost Town' → Chart performance for "Living in a Ghost Town"

•  Not done en-GB

• Remove Adult Alternative Songs per WP:USCHARTS

•  Done

Release history

• Release formats for 'Living in a Ghost Town' → Release dates and formats for "Living in a Ghost Town"

•  Done

• The region col is missing, which should be the first one

•  Not done "Missing"? "Should"? Based on what?

• This is how release history tables are supposed to be laid out, look through many GAs and you will see this; it is important to list where the releases were --K. Peake 07:13, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

• Source?

• Look at the release tables throughout articles; it looks messy in the state you currently have but needs fixing --K. Peake 09:43, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

• There is nothing messy about this table. Adding a useless column would make it more messy.

• Ref col is missing too, which should be the one after the label col

•  Not done That is ugly, unnecessary, less accessible and I will never do that: the rows are properly sourced.

• This is outdated format that you are using now, though --K. Peake 07:13, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

• Format → Format(s)

•  Not done

• There are multiple formats in the same rows so this must be done --K. Peake 07:13, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

• Source?

• Formats for the first release should be Digital download and streaming, with the targets

•  Done

• 10″ vinyl single → 10" vinyl, with the target

•  Not done

• It is not currently written correctly --K. Peake 07:13, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

• I copied and pasted what you wrote above.

• Make sure the appropriate refs are invoked in the col

•  Not done What are you talking about? There is nothing to be references in "in the col"???

• This is for when you have adding the col --K. Peake 07:13, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

• I can't even parse that sentence. What are you talking about "when you have adding the col"? I sincerely can't even read that.

• Col means column in a table, I thought this was an obvious abbreviation --K. Peake 09:43, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

• I realize that "col" means "column": "when you have adding the column" is nonsense. What does "when you have adding the column" mean?

See also

• 'Ghost Town', a 1981 Specials single → Ghost Town (Specials song)

•  Not done: this is not an improvement

• 'Murder Most Foul', a 2020 Bob Dylan single that has been compared to this song → Murder Most Foul (song)

•  Not done: this is not an improvement

• You are not supposed to give full context for any of the articles under see also --K. Peake 07:13, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

• WP:SEEALSO says the exact opposite.

References

• Make sure all of these are archived by using the tool

•  Not done: what are you talking about "using the tool"?

• Click on "Fix dead links" under Revision history

•  Done

• Copyvio score looks fine at 32.9%

•  Done

• WP:OVERLINK of The Guardian on ref 5

•  Not done: it's fine to link to the source in the citation

• For all instances that I put this, it is because sources should only be wikilinked to once

• Source?

• Overlink page discourages linking again for sources --K. Peake 09:45, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

• Source (again)?

• Zane Lowe should be authorlinked on ref 7, and lay his name out in the same manner as the other authors

•  Not done: this is not an improvement

• It needs to be laid out with last followed by first name for consistency and any authorlinking is good to provide more context --K. Peake 07:13, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

• Not even sure why I wrote that, since I did what you asked.

• Authorlink Will Hodgkinson on ref 9

•  Done

• Target Louder Sound to Metal Hammer on ref 10

•  Not done: valid redirect

• Addressed this earlier in the article review

• See above

• WP:OVERLINK of GQ on ref 11

•  Not done: it's valid to link to the source

• WP:OVERLINK of Rolling Stone on ref 12

•  Not done: it's valid to link to the source

• Remove redundant wikilink on Super Deluxe Edition for ref 13

•  Not done: redundant to what...?

• WP:OVERLINK of Vulture on ref 14

•  Not done: it's valid to link to the source

• Fix MOS:QWQ issues with ref 17 and cite Stereogum as website instead

•  Done: for quotation, why use "website" instead of "publisher"?

• Because Stereogum is italicised as its article makes clear, so should not be cited as a publisher --K. Peake 07:13, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

• If so, then it should be in the running text as well, which I changed

• Are you sure ref 38 is required; if yes, then target AllMusic Guide to AllMusic

•  Done

External links

• Remove AOTY, MusicBrainz, RYM and MSN.com

•  Not done: why would I do that?

• See WP:EXTERNALLINKS to understand why they are useless --K. Peake 07:13, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

• How is MusicBrainz "useless" but Discogs isn't? You aren't explaining yourself.

Final comments and verdict

•  On hold after I finished my comments today easily just like I set out to do, hopefully this can become a GA on this very day and I understand the numerous mistakes since you are not a heavily experienced editor! --K. Peake 11:35, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

  Kyle Peake, ..."not a heavily experienced editor"...? ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 03:06, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

  Koavf It looks like you do not have much experience in GANs, that was not meant as a diss. And I have made responses to your comments above. --K. Peake 06:56, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

  Kyle Peake, I didn't think you were being disrespectful: it is just one of many things that is unintelligible to me on this page. Responded myself, including several changes. Thanks. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 08:24, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

  Koavf Sorry but I am going to have to ✗ Fail this article because not only has it been on hold for too long, but you have not implemented numerous changes properly even after I have gone through them on the review page. --K. Peake 08:15, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

  Kyle Peake, Well, you left several items above outstanding. It's unfortunate that you think that this article can't be good without a link to YouTube but I'm never going to include that, so c'est la vie. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 15:18, 13 October 2020 (UTC)