Talk:Lituus

Page should probably be split... AnonMoos 02:58, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

lituus - k or a^2?

Hello! I was wondering about the 'k' value in the current lituus equation. I checked out my CRC book of Standard Mathematical Tables 22nd ed. and instead of k it uses a². I suppose the two quantities could be equivalent, but does the different notation have any significance or does it simply change some aesthetic property of the curve (ie the distance between two consecutive spirals)? Any explanation would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! --Krokke (talk) 04:37, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

It's an instrument too

See [this BBC article there is an instrument called a lituus too. Smartse (talk) 13:51, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

That's not the ancient lituus, but a longer version of the Roman tuba, what the Greeks called salpinx. The ancient lituus (like the Gallic carnyx) was shorter and bent at the end, in the form of a J. (Therefore the name lituus.) An image is here. The shorter version of the ancient lituus was actually still used by nightwatchmen in German cities in the 17th century, with only slight modifications, but retaining the bent endpiece, maybe similar to one of the two instruments on the right. So either the composer Bach (mentioned in the BBC article) was referring to that instrument (the mediaeval version of the ancient bent lituus), or the reconstruction scientists somehow made a mistake. Or the name lituus was used for more than one instrument. —85.178.82.176 (talk) 14:44, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Okay, found it in the German Wikipedia. In a work on music & music instruments from 1763, the lituus meant a version of the trumpet or horn. That may have been the instrument Bach composed for. So this reconstructed lituus has nothing to do with the ancient Roman/Etruscan lituus, except the name. —85.178.82.176 (talk) 14:49, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

profane history

Originally the Lituus was a shepherd's crook, and its curved shape was used (and still is used in some parts of the world) to gather young leaves from trees to feed livestock. Like other liturgical christian artifacts (some of them predating christianity) it refers to the Good Sheperd. 62.178.137.216 (talk) 10:19, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Lituus and Crozier

Croziers were originally "Tau" shaped snake images evoking Moses turning his staff into a snake, or the serpentine staff of healing he made in sinai both present in Exodus. It is arguable whether there is Roman influence in Exodus as this is an early text. In the easter church Croziers look nothing like a lituus, and are not considered shepperds crooks, but serpentine staffs evocative of Moses. There is medieval evidence of western croziers with a curved spiraled snake. There is also evidence of Tau shaped croziers from Germany (the west) before the great Schism. Therefore the concept that a lituus and a Crozier are connected in any way is highly suspect, since the curved crozier does not appear until the middle ages, and is not contiguous with ancient practices as can be seen in the different tradition that develops in the eastern church, and early evidence. see for more information: http://www.orthodoxartsjournal.org/the-serpents-of-orthodoxy/ Torquiljm (talk)torquiljmTorquiljm (talk) 13:36, 16 April 2016 (UTC) <ref> "The Serpents of Orthodoxy" by Jonathan Pageau April 18, 2013 http://www.orthodoxartsjournal.org/the-serpents-of-orthodoxy/<ref>

I don't think the sole reference in this article to the crosier was intended to suggest there was any direct relationship to the lituus, merely that there is a similarity in function and (in some types) to shape. I have reworded the passage in question, in an effort to make this clearer.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 20:17, 2 May 2016 (UTC)