Talk:List of woodcuts by Albrecht Dürer

links to individual print data

User:Pppery, you keep on removing links to Wikidata, which is quite disruptive. I am using the links according to the instructions at Template:Wikidata icon which is "intended to be used for list of articles where each item [] have a Wikidata item, but probably does not have a dedicated Wikipedia article", which is exactly the case. Since the list is developed based on Wikidata data, I need the links in order to quickly access the source of the data and references to the original sources. Please restore links to Template:Wikidata icon or replace with some other form which will allow people to access the metadata for ~370 woodcuts. --Jarekt (talk) 20:44, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2018 January 16#Template:Wikidata icon clearly shows consensus that Template:Wikidata icon should not be used in articles. (Note that that discussion took place 2 years after the instructions you refer to were written). Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Archive 204#New RFC on linking to Wikidata clearly shows consensus that articles should not contain links to Wikidata. Enforcing consensus is not disruptive. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 20:55, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

I see now in Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2018_January_16#Template:Wikidata_icon that preferred solution is to replace {{Wikidata icon}} with {{Interlanguage link}} in the article namespace. I do not find this solution as aesthetically pleasing as {{Wikidata icon}}, but it is better than the current state. --Jarekt (talk) 02:38, 10 November 2020 (UTC)

No, {{Interlanguage link}} is not a replacement for {{Wikidata icon}}. Interlanguage link is, unsurprisingly, a link between language editions of Wikipedia. It is for sending a reader to an existing Wikipedia article in another language, when English lacks that article. Normally you specify one or more languages where the article exists. It is disputed/unresolved whether or not the template may be used to send readers to the list of links of existing articles to pick from, a list which happens to be at the bottom of the Wikidata item page. It is a misuse of the template to use it as a replacement for {{Wikidata icon}}, and it is flagrantly invalid to send readers to an empty list of zero interlanguage articles. Alsee (talk) 14:20, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

A good example of why these Wikidata lists are maintenance trouble

The column Year has:

• Dates referenced to English Wikipedia, which is circular referencing and disallowed
• Dates referenced to "https://purl.org/nga" which gives a browser warning as a potentially dangerous link
• "between circa 1496 and circa 1497": it's either "between 1496 and 1497", or "circa 1496-1797"
• A wikidata pencil link without an accompanying date?
• "between circa 1502 and circa 1503 / between circa 1502 and circa 1503"
• "1509 / between circa 1509 and circa 1510"
• "1510 / 1509"
• "1511 / 1511"
• "1510s / 1515"
• "1520 / probably between 1520 and 1521"

To correct the last 8 examples (and there are often multiple instances and variations per type), one would need to, well, at the very least go to all individual entries instead of correcting it all at once here; and then do something, perhaps with preferences? Fram (talk) 15:49, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

https://purl.org/ng also causes a warning when visited from the article on Wikipedia where it is cited; it's not a Wikidata issue. It is due to a certificate on the target site which expired in late October, and is no doubt a temporary issue; I'd wager good money that Wikipedia also has other citations with the same issue, not to mention the number of completely dead links in citations. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:02, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Yes, and when they are here, you can in one edit remove them, or tag them as compromised, or add archive links, or ... With a Wikidata list like this, you would instead need to visit each page individually to correct these, and some of the solutions available here wouldn't be available there. More work, less options, not an improvement. Fram (talk) 07:55, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Copied from village pump (policy)

WP:Village pump (policy)#Linking to Wikidata from lists of_artworks, and permalink to discussion as of 25 November 2020. Edited to de-duplicate the text, by Alsee (talk) 14:27, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

• Copied bit ends - this wan't the whole discussion, which then went further away from this specific page. Johnbod (talk) 16:01, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

Why would you need 1000+ sources? You have four main sources, which are already listed in columns (and for which you use the template Cite Q, which is discouraged in mainspace). Even if you then add a source for each year, you would still be far removed from 1000+ sources. And then at least you could add reliable sources, instead of links to Wikidata which may or may not contain usable links. Fram (talk) 16:18, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

And by the way, why do the interwiki links to Wikidata (after the redlinked names of woodcuts) take me to the bottom of the Wikidata page? That's rather confusing and doesn't seem to serve a useful purpose. Fram (talk) 16:20, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

Fram I think all of the interlanguage links are gone now, but it was confusing & not useful because the template was being misused. The template is supposed to be used to send readers to a foreign Wikipedia, if some desired article doesn't exists in English. There was no consensus on whether the template may be used in an article without specifying at least one foreign-Wikipedia destination. If the template is used that way, the link sends you to pick your destination from the list of Wikipedias-that-have-the-article. The template was being abused to send readers to a blank list, because that list lives at the bottom of the Wikidata item. Alsee (talk) 15:54, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Ah, thanks. Now all that remains is to change the article to an actual text-based (not template-based), local (not Wikidata-fetching) one, and to correct the errors, include the conflicting dates (perhaps better to add the dates in the 4 "catalogue" columns?), and to move the disputed attributions to a separate section. Fram (talk) 16:08, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and replaced the replaced the template- and wikidata-based table with a pure wikitext table in Special:Diff/993315260. I'll leave it to other interested editors to apply content fixes or reformatting to the resulting list. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 00:05, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

As an example, I changed in the article[1] one Cite Q reference to a standard one;

• Johann David Passavant, Le Peintre Graveur (in French), Wikidata Q101157511
• Passavant, Johann David (1862). "Albert Durer". Le peintre-graveur. Tome troisième (in French). Leipzig: Rudolph Weigel. pp. 144–226.

Fram (talk) 16:18, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

Please don't fork discussions like this; a link to the original discussion (or to its archive, when available) is sufficient. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:04, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

SPARQL query

SPARQL query used as a starting point for table generation:

SELECT ?item ?itemLabel ?fisher ?bartsch ?passavant ?CD ?Kurth ?image ?series 

WITH { # find items for the artworks
  SELECT DISTINCT ?item WHERE {
     {?item wdt:P31   wd:Q18219090.} UNION  # woodcut
     {?item wdt:P2079 wd:Q173242.}
     {?item wdt:P170 wd:Q5580 . } UNION # By Durer
     {?item p:P528 [ pq:P972 wd:Q100320351; ps:P528 ?fisher] } UNION
     {?item p:P528 [ pq:P972 wd:Q18327311;  ps:P528 ?bartsch] . } UNION
     {?item p:P528 [ pq:P972 wd:Q101157511; ps:P528 ?passavant] . } UNION
     {?item p:P528 [ pq:P972 wd:Q101181018; ps:P528 ?CD] . } UNION
     {?item p:P528 [ pq:P972 wd:Q101542418; ps:P528 ?Kurth] . } # or listed in Durer catalog
  }            
} AS %items

WHERE { # get properties for the items
  INCLUDE %items .
  optional{?item p:P528 [ pq:P972 wd:Q100320351; ps:P528 ?fisher] . }
  optional{?item p:P528 [ pq:P972 wd:Q18327311;  ps:P528 ?bartsch] . }
  optional{?item p:P528 [ pq:P972 wd:Q101157511; ps:P528 ?passavant] . }
  optional{?item p:P528 [ pq:P972 wd:Q101181018; ps:P528 ?CD] . }
  optional{?item p:P528 [ pq:P972 wd:Q101542418; ps:P528 ?Kurth] . }
  ?item wdt:P18 ?image .
  optional{?item wdt:P179 ?series .}
  SERVICE wikibase:label { bd:serviceParam wikibase:language "en" . }
  #optional{   ?commonsSitelink schema:about ?item; schema:isPartOf <https://commons.wikimedia.org/>; schema:name ?cat . }
} ORDER BY ?Kurth ?fisher

Click here to launch the Wikidata query

--Jarekt (talk) 16:15, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Woodcuts by Albrecht Dürer table

Template:Woodcuts by Albrecht Dürer table has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 18:56, 31 December 2020 (UTC)