Talk:List of reeves and mayors of the former municipalities in Toronto

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Requested move 23 September 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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List of reeves and mayors of the former municipalities in Toronto → List of reeves and mayors of the former townships and villages in Toronto – Page was moved without discussion and new name is inaccurate as the list is not inclusive of all municipalities (ie the old City of Toronto), it only lists reeves and mayors of townships and villages - which ceased to exist on January 1, 1967 when the towns and villages were amalgamated into the City of Toronto and five suburban boroughs. Sowny (talk) 03:40, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

This is a contested technical request (permalink). —Nnadigoodluck🇳🇬 05:09, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose. It is unclear who is contesting this. Sowny or Nnadigoodluck. If the former, I would be careful about the argument of this being an undiscussed move given the undiscussed move by the former just prior to my move.

  The article title proposed in this move is inaccurate. The article has separate sections for three former villages (Forest Hill, Long Branch, and Swansea), one former township (Mimico), three former towns (Leaside, New Toronto, and Weston), one former borough (East York), and four former cities (Etobicoke, North York, Scarborough, and York). Villages, townships, towns, boroughs, and cities are (were) all different types of municipalities, so the current title is both accurate and concise. If this isn’t satisfactory, instead propose to rename it as List of reeves and mayors of the former cities, boroughs, towns, townships and villages in Toronto despite its lack of conciseness. If the concern is it is simply missing the mayors of the pre-amalgamated Toronto, then add them. If that is not palatable, rename it to List of reeves and mayors of the former municipalities now in Toronto. There is precedent in the “now in” approach. Hwy43 (talk) 06:52, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

  Hwy43 Thanks for the ping. Sowny initially made the move to their preferred title as can be seen here, you reverted it in a few hours as can be seen here. I guess, they tried moving the page back to their preferred title once again thereby constituting a move war, but it didn't go through. They now filed a technical move request at WP:RM/TR as can be seen here and it was contested and I brought it to this talk page for a standard RM. I guess, they're too new and still don't understand how page moves work on Wikipedia. Best, —Nnadigoodluck🇳🇬 08:34, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

Thanks Nnadigoodluck. I've been long time out of practice at WP:RM/TR to detect that was where this originated. Hwy43 (talk) 05:42, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

• Support I made the move from reeves to reeves and mayors because Leaside, Mimico, New Toronto and Weston all had mayors so the former name was inaccurate. I couldn't imagine anyone would object to that move so didn't see a need to discuss it- but I'm willing to be corrected. But, Hwy43 if you're objecting to my original move being made without a discussion, then I am fine moving this article back to List of reeves of the former townships and villages in Toronto so we can discuss what the article should be called from scratch.

This article in its older form was intended as a list of leaders of the townships and villages that were abolished in 1967 (North York, Scarborough, Etobicoke, East York, and York were all townships until 1967 and the smaller villages and towns were merged into them, or in the case of Forest Hill, with Toronto itself). Perhaps rather than linking to other pages for the reeves of North York, Scarborough etc, an addition that was made more recently, the article should just list the pre-1967 reeves only or go back to only listing those of the towns and villages abolished in 1967, in order to remain focussed? The term "municipalities" is misleading because all municipalities are not listed here ie the old City of Toronto isn't listed so the name List of reeves and mayors of the former municipalities in Toronto is inaccurate.

BTW, you say "If the former, I would be careful about the argument of this being an undiscussed move given the undiscussed move by the former just prior to my move." I'm not sure what you're implying here but no one is accusing you of acting in bad faith so please don't imply I've acted in bad faith. We're both acting in good faith here, we simply disagree about what the title should be. Sowny (talk) 09:05, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

Moving it back to List of reeves of the former townships and villages in Toronto is unnecessary. This move discussion will resolve the issue.

I did not contest your move due to inaccuracy or lack of discussion. You moved this to List of reeves and mayors of the former townships and villages in Toronto to be "more accurate". I inspected and agree that is the case as two different titles of chief elected officials were used – reeve and mayor – by the former municipalities. What also caught my eye however was it wasn't only former townships and villages that were featured in the article. Former towns, boroughs, and cities were also featured, thereby making the pre-existing "townships and villages" aspect of the title inaccurate. As PKT states, "municipalities" is an umbrella term for all municipal status types that existed. I built off your quest for accuracy.

We don't need to toss out the post-1967 additions. Wikipedia is a WP:WORKINPROGRESS. This article was not complete, and the recent efforts expanded the article to make it more complete. The former City of Toronto was already listed under a "See also" section and has since been resolved with a simple edit to at least match what was done for the other five amalgamating partners. Bold editors can take it even closer to completion by adding the at least 11 others that are former municipalities listed at Category:Former municipalities in Toronto.

The current title of this article is now accurate and WP:CONCISE. Reverting my move takes the article to a title that is less accurate and not concise. If the will is to go with WP:PRECISE, then we are looking at List of reeves and mayors of the former cities, boroughs, towns, townships and villages in Toronto as previously mentioned above, which comes at the expense of conciseness/brevity. Hwy43 (talk) 06:11, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose as unnecessary. 'Municipalities' is an umbrella term for villages, towns, boroughs, townships, cities, what-have-you. The argument that mayors of Old Toronto are omitted is easily resolvable by including them, or at least a link to where we might already have them listed. PKT(alk) 16:57, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

PKT: as you probably noticed already, there was a link under the "See also" section to List of mayors of Toronto. I have converted it to a "Toronto (pre-1999)" heading. Heading could alternately be "Old Toronto". I am indifferent. Hwy43 (talk) 05:39, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose. There current term is more inclusive, i don't see why the move is needed. blindlynx (talk) 13:38, 26 September 2020 (UTC)

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The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Blurbs for each reeve/mayor

Few of the people on the list would merit having their own article as they would not pass the threshold for WP:Notability WP:GNG but it would be good if we could have a bit of information on each reeve/mayor added to this page - perhaps ultimately in table form. I've put some info up on a few of them and will try to do more but if others are able to do so as well that would be great. Sowny (talk) 17:08, 23 September 2020 (UTC)