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Latest comment: 9 hours ago7 comments4 people in discussion
Please add Pauly Likens, 14, whom was found to be murdered and dismembered on July 11th 2024. Investigations by Pennsylvania police charged her murderer - Dashawn Watkins, 29 - of first degree murder, aggravated assault, abuse of a corpse, and and tampering with evidence. BoopK (talk) 03:23, 25 July 2024 (UTC)Reply
Everything on Wikipedia needs a reliable source, so if this is to be added, we need a link to a report in a reliable news outlet. But that would not be enough – this article is a list of people killed for being transgender. There is nothing in your post which suggests that Pauly Likens was killed for being transgender, so this death would not come within the subject of this article. Sweet6970 (talk) 12:56, 25 July 2024 (UTC)Reply
@Raladic:, you presumably read my reply to the IP about the fact that this article is a list of people killed for being transgender. And that is, of course, plain from the title of the article. And there is an edit notice which says:
The scope of this list is only deaths of transgender people where reliable sources report that the victim being transgender was (one of) the reasons why they were killed. This is not an article to list every person who was killed and transgender, especially if the killer is unknown and no sources contain no evidence of their motive. Any additions that fail these requirements will be removed.
Yet you have added an item which has no information that the deceased was killed for being transgender.
The sources make it clear that the DA consider it a hate crime and said they are looking into adding the charge of "ethnic intimidation", which is what PA has right now as it has no formal hate crime statute, but they clearly consider it part of the motive or else they wouldn't consider it. And as noted by the extra sentence, the Governor is working with the legislature to improve their laws and protections, especially in the wake of the case. Raladic (talk) 04:36, 27 July 2024 (UTC)Reply
You have still not provided any information that this death was because the victim was transgender. In fact, you have now said that it may have been related to the victim’s ethnicity. Whilst the two motives are not necessarily mutually exclusive, you need to provide definite evidence that at least one of the motives for the killing was because the victim was transgender – otherwise your edit is in breach of the edit notice. Sweet6970 (talk) 12:56, 28 July 2024 (UTC)Reply
Agreed with Sweet6970 here -- even if it is plausible it was related to her transness, it's also plausible it was done to conceal his illegal relations with a minor, or quite a few other possibilities. PA does not have include trans people under its hate crimes categorization, so the prosecution is not treating it as such; additionally, they have said there lacks evidence for a federal hate crime charge. While transphobic motive is plausible, it's not clear. AmityCity (talk) 23:14, 8 August 2024 (UTC)Reply
Latest comment: 8 hours ago2 comments2 people in discussion
This page could benefit from examples pre-dating 1990. While obviously the specific terminology used differs and evidence is harder to come by the further one goes back, surely transgender people were not killed for the first time for their gender expression in 1991.
On a similar and related note; Joan of Arc is one such potential figure. Obviously the details of their gender identity are uncertain, however, they were burned at the stake for heresy, with one of the primary charges being their refusal to desist in wearing gender-inappropriate garb (men's clothing). Assuming this page is not limited to hate crimes, but would also include government execution, this page's own criteria of "being transgender was (one of) the reasons why they were killed" seems apt.
You make a good point about cases being added without clear indication that the motive was transphobia. However, could you please elaborate on your reasoning as to why the page itself does not "serve an encyclopaedic purpose"? This page has an average of 311 daily views in the last week; clearly it is a source of information that people are interested in, and it is otherwise difficult to find and navigate to individual historical cases. AmityCity (talk) 23:18, 8 August 2024 (UTC)Reply
Per Wikipedia:Stand-alone lists#Notability, the criteria for the existence of a list like this is "if it has been discussed as a group or set by independent reliable sources". I would think anyone would agree that "trans people being killed for being transgender" is relatively commonly discussed by reliable sources. Here's Time and HRC on it if needed. AmityCity (talk) 23:24, 8 August 2024 (UTC)Reply
Latest comment: 7 hours ago1 comment1 person in discussion
I wonder if it would be useful to add a link to this list on applicable pages. If so, what do folks think would be the best way to do it?
I'm inclined towards adding this link under a "See also:" (and adding said section where needed), but could also see the merit in a broader approach by adding the Transgender sidebar and/or Discrimination sidebar to those pages; this page is linked in both of those. AmityCity (talk) 00:56, 9 August 2024 (UTC)Reply
Latest comment: 2 hours ago1 comment1 person in discussion
Looking at the similar page List of lynching victims in the United States, the page is somewhat easier to read and the details are more immediately visible. Additionally, given that much of the basis of the relevance of a page like this is the quantity, location, et cetera of the incidents -- and included details of any individual incident are generally relatively limited -- it seems like it could make the page more useful. The information on this page is currently presented strictly chronologically, with location details somewhat obscured which may not be the most relevant for some users; I imagine a table would by default be sorted chronologically but could allow folks to see lists by country/subregion, gender, ethnicity (the vast majority of victims in the US are black trans women), age, et cetera. I worry that some of the additional details sections might be a little long but it seems like some of that could be reduced by shifting from full sentences to quick summaries as in the other example given.
Would love to hear thoughts, including about whether folks think such a reformatting should preserve the 90s/00s/10s/20s split the article's main body currently has or not. AmityCity (talk) 06:14, 9 August 2024 (UTC)Reply
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Done - added with refs. Raladic (talk) 17:26, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
