Talk:List of participating nations at the Summer Olympic Games

Australia with note H under "00"

The table shows H under “00” (2000) for Australia. Note H is about 1904, not 2000, so I’m wondering if this is a mistake. -- JackofOz (talk) 02:07, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

No, there isn't, you misread (or didn't read) the legend for these tables. H means host nation (as Australia was in 2000), but ^[H] refers to the wikilinked footnote H. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 04:48, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I did indeed fail to read the fine print. -- JackofOz (talk) 03:03, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Teddy Flack and Australia at Athens 1896

I’ve been reading about Teddy Flack, the first person to represent Australia at the Olympics (Athens 1896), and also the first Australian Olympic gold medal winner. Australia at the Olympics also makes reference to these achievements.

However, one of the external links for Flack’s article, the Australian Dictionary of Biography article on Flack, says: Nevertheless newspaper reports of his presence in Athens for the revived Olympic Games in 1896, at which Australia was not officially represented, came as a surprise to his family who learned that he had taken a months holiday.

Is this an error? Or does it mean that there was no official Australian team at Athens 1896 but that Flack turned up as an individual competitor and, being an Australian, his medals were attributed to Australia? -- JackofOz (talk) 03:03, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, the first few Olympic Games were much different than now, of course. One huge difference is that athletes didn't really compete for their nations, as they do now. The 1908 Games were really the first to adhere to teams that were sent by their respective National Olympic Committees. There were even several events from 1896–1904 in which teams composed of athletes from different nations competed (and won medals) together. The IOC has retroactively called them "mixed teams" so that medal tables add up evenly. As for Flack, there was no Australian team per se, but on the other hand, no nation was really "officially represented". The official report mentions the nationality of most medalists, but these weren't organized delegations as we know them now. Nevertheless, most Olympic historians—and the IOC's medal database and 1896 medal table—attribute Flack's medals individual athletics events to Australia and his tennis doubles medal to a mixed team. Hope this helps — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 04:11, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for that very clear explanation, Andrwsc. I guess this means the ADB statement is technically true, but its baldness could mislead by allowing readers to assume that certain other countries were officially represented in 1896. I might get in touch with them and suggest a rewording. -- JackofOz (talk) 05:10, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Should all name changes be presented in the way Serbia and Montenegro is presented

I think that this way we should have Zaire and bunch of others in the tables.

Or we will continue to mark countries under the name which was the last team name under which that particular country appeared!?

Imbris (talk) 22:07, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Per the description in the table legend (assuming you have ever read that), the table is intended to be organized only around the current 205 NOCs, but A select number of obsolete nations are also included in the table to more clearly illustrate past Olympic appearances for their successor nations. That select number is currently seven, and I am very relucatant to add more. A previous draft I wrote had instances of "British Guiana", etc. and it looked awkward, which is what led to the current system of footnotes for obvious cases of NOC succession. I think you are the only person who has trouble understanding this table (nobody had any big issues during the featured list process), and I think I have included your POV—in a method consistent with the reliable sources for this article—that pre-1992 Yugoslavia is an entirely different nation as post-1992 Yugoslavia. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 22:16, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

There is no need for that YUG (FR) to exist because it was a simple name change to Serbia and Montenegro. That select few are justified (example. Soviet Union, Yugoslavia (the federal state of six republics and two autonomous provinces). But in other cases it is meaningless like the Republic of China and Chinese Taipei (obvious name change) and what about Zimbabwe (former Rhodesia) why is that a simple name change and the YUG (FR) / SCG is not. -- Imbris (talk) 22:36, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

And why is the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (Serbia and Montenegro) so relevant (as the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, the Federal Republic of Germany (FRG) and the Democratic Republic of Germany (DDR) and the Czechoslovakia). By which account do you think that is relevant. By account of appearances on 1996 S, 1998 W, 2000 S and 2002 W. Zaire had more appearances (but less medals). Why are you insisting on FRY separated from SCG it was Serbia and Montenegro in both cases. A simple name change. -- Imbris (talk) 23:13, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

This wasn't simp,y a "name change". Serbia and Montenegro, then a single country, broke up into 2 different countries: Serbia, and Montenegro. -- JackofOz (talk) 22:29, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

We are talking about the name change from the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (comprising of the Republic of Montenegro and the Republic of Serbia - only) to the Serbia and Montenegro comprising of those same two republics without any particular dissimilarity between the two. -- Imbris (talk) 22:36, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Instead of continuing to butcher the list with your edits, can we please use the talk page to figure it out? If I understand you, is THIS what you want to see (placed alphabetically when merged back into the main article, of course):

Nation	Code	96	00	04	08	12	16	20	24	28	32	36	40	44	48	52	56	60	64	68	72	76	80	84	88	92	96	00	04	08
Montenegro	MNE							see Yugoslavia																		see SCG				•
Serbia	SRB					•		see Yugoslavia																		see SCG				•
Serbia and Montenegro	SCG							see Yugoslavia																		[X]	•	•	•
Yugoslavia	YUG							•	•	•	•	•			•	•	•	•	•	•	•	•	•	•	•

^ SCG: The Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, consisting of the Republic of Serbia and the Republic of Montenegro, was reconstituted as the State Union of Serbia and Montenegro in 2003. At the 1996 and 2000 games, the nation was still designated Yugoslavia (YUG). The Serbia and Montenegro designation and SCG code were first used at the 2004 Games.
^ YUG: The Kingdom of Yugoslavia (officially the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes until 1929) participated as Yugoslavia in five Games before the Second World War. The Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia also participated using the Yugoslavia designation, for all Games between 1948–1988. For participation by the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, see Serbia and Montenegro (SCG).

And the participation footnote "X" would explain the IOP in 1992. Is this what you have in mind? Or what? — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 23:52, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

• Montenegro existed prior the 1920 games as an independent country so without the bgcolor for MNE  Done
• footnote for SCG includes the name change from the FRY to S&M + the code change YUG to SCG (note that it doesn't include IOP nor the YUG (1920-1992W))
• footnote for YUG includes the Kingdom era, the Socialist era and the disclaimer that doesn't include IOP and SCG (which include the YUG (1996S-2002W).
• +the 1992S should have the black bgcolor because FRY was banned with the footnote that it competed as IOP
• footnote for IOP whould have the info that it doesn't incluede FRY nor SCG

Imbris (talk) 00:26, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

So where do you want the [X] for IOP? Under which row of the 1992 column? YUG or SCG? I don't understand your last comment (what do you mean by "doesn't include"?) — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 00:31, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

(Sorry for entering the discussion) The IOP note should stay in SCG because at that time it was FR Yugoslavia (aka Serbia and Montenegro) that existed as a (two-republic) state. Parutakupiu (talk) 00:42, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

IOP would of course go into the SCG but that IOP would be a separate footnote which would say that it doesn't include YUG (1996 S - 2002 W) nor SCG (2004 S - 2006 W) because those two would be in the same row and because FRY (YUG [1996 S - 2002 W) was under sanctions. This cell would have a black background and white reference nummber/letter. -- Imbris (talk) 00:46, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Remember that there are two kinds of footnotes being used in parallell in this article, one that looks like [X] that is used exclusively in the table cells to describe participation instances, and one that looks like SCG[>] that describes changes in the NOC itself. I'm not sure I understand what you are describing and how it is different than what I show above—do you want to try editing it here on this talk page? — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 01:10, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

YUG was banned in 1992 S so IOP competed. This is why that [X] should explain that IOP is neither YUG (1996 S - 2002 W) nor SCG (2004 S - 2006 W). And even if you explicitly demand that it is neither YUG (1920 - 1992 W) related. IOP is nor YUG nor SCG nor YUG (1920 - 1992 W). -- Imbris (talk) 01:34, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

You can't even the the footnote link for that black background. To be honest, the black × marks for "banned" teams were added after this became FL, and aren't even referenced. I don't think they are needed (for GER, JPN, RSA, AFG, etc.) and would rather delete them. If that was the case, then we could simply use a footnote in a white background cell, like all the rest, which is much easier to read. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 02:17, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

I'am also in favour of deleting black cells all together. It doesn't promote the meaning of sports. But if they must stay then it should be listed in SCG (+ that IOP reference). They were banned but permited under a different code. -- Imbris (talk) 02:22, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Ok, so let's assume the black "banned" indicators will go. What about the distinct footnotes. Do those make sense? I have put a first attempt at copyediting them above. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 02:32, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

It is ok, but the ban on the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia should be mentioned under the SCG footnote + the clear notion that IOC allowed participation under the Olympic flag and the designation of Independent Olympic Participants (IOP) see [X]. -- Imbris (talk) 22:11, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

A separate entry for Bohemia and Saar?

Currently Bohemia is represented by a footnote in the Czech Republic entry, but shouldn't Bohemia be a separate entry (under the Czech Republic)? The Austro-Hungarian province of Bohemia was just one of the Austro-Hungarian provinces that eventually became the Czech Republic.

Likewise Saar ought to have a separate entry (under Germany) as they competed under their own flag in 1952? Jostein N 129.177.91.79 (talk) 14:16, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

There are several more obsolete NOCs like this, but the list description clearly states This list includes all 205 current NOCs and A select number of obsolete nations are also included in the table to more clearly illustrate past Olympic appearances for their successor nations. While the article was under development, I had a version that listed every NOC that ever was, but it was more confusing than what ended up becoming the featured list, in my opinion. I'd prefer not to expand that "select number of obsolete nations" to every single one, if possible. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 16:46, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Andrwsc on this issue. It would be confusing. Not to mention that Bohemia is just a part of the Czechia (the other part being Moravia). -- Imbris (talk) 23:21, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Russia in 1896-1912 and West Indies 1960

For Armenia, Azerbaidjan, Kyrgyzstan etc on cells 1896-1912 "See Russia" is shown despite Russia did not participate in 1896 and 1904 Olympic Games and no Turkmenistan or Moldovan athlete participate in thistime. But in case of West Indies only Barbados, Jamaica, and Trinidad and Tobago are mentioned because athletes only from these islands formed the team of West Indies. Here must be some kind unified approach.Xadrezista (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 22:49, 1 March 2010 (UTC). Xadrezista (talk) 22:52, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Adding wikilinks

Is it an idea to make of every dot on the page a wikilink? So for instance:

Nation	Code	96	00	04	08	12	16	20	24	28	32	36	40	44	48	52	56	60	64	68	72	76	80	84	88	92	96	00	04	08	12	Total
Afghanistan	AFG											•			•		•	•	•	•	•		•		•		•		•	•	•	13

Sander.v.Ginkel (talk) 11:55, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

I disagree. "Easter egg" links like this are discouraged by the manual of style, and the size of the resultant page would be huge if we added ~3000 links. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 18:39, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

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