Talk:List of non-Muslim authors on Islam

Latest comment: 2 years ago by Mosesheron II in topic Where do we go from here?

Split off

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This article originated in the section Academic/Non-Muslim, a part of the article entitled List of Islamic studies scholars. It was split off and established as an independent article on July 6, 2008. Elfelix (talk) 16:45, 11 July 2008 (UTC)Reply

Alpha list?

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How about a alphabetic list as well as a chronological? WBardwin (talk) 00:01, 7 June 2009 (UTC)Reply

Requested move 10 November 2021

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: NO CONSENSUS: No consensus has been established on what the title should be. Given the length of time since the last comment posted, I'm closing this without prejudice to any further discussion on this topic. (non-admin closure) Spekkios (talk) 01:36, 29 November 2021 (UTC)Reply


Islamic studies by author (non-Muslim or academic)List of non-Muslim authors on Islam – This article is a list and should begin by "List of" by convention. It is also quite ambiguous to have academic in the title as that could refer to most works on Islam.VR talk 15:02, 10 November 2021 (UTC) — Relisting. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 23:48, 18 November 2021 (UTC)Reply

Note: WikiProject Islam has been notified of this discussion. VR talk 15:07, 10 November 2021 (UTC)Reply

I just noticed this article existed. think its good idea to differentiate the scholarly opinion outside of Islam, so it will give clarity regarding POV of certain scholar or researchers regarding their works, Ahendra (talk) 12:56, 12 November 2021 (UTC)Reply

Anyway, is there any article that examine this list? i mean an article specifically about history of non muslim study and research of Islam. Ahendra (talk) 13:00, 12 November 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Ahendra: well there is Criticism of Islam, but that only covers very small part of non-Muslim studies of Islam. Are there any books that give a general overview of non-Muslim study of Islam? If so, we can begin to create such an article.VR talk 15:26, 13 November 2021 (UTC)Reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Where do we go from here?

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I'm pinging all the above participants: Ahendra, Andrewa, Elfelix, Facts707, . Where do we go from here? The scope of this is currently so broad that almost all authors can be included. All non-Muslim authors can be included, but most Muslim authors can be included as they are "academics" in some sense of the word (either by education at a Western university, Middle Eastern university, a madrassa etc). The only category that is excluded is Muslim non-academic authors. That's a weird category to be excluded. In fact, the way the scope is currently defined it doesn't even meet WP:NLIST. But I really don't want this to be deleted. I think this is just a poorly named but useful list. VR talk 03:30, 29 November 2021 (UTC)Reply

i think its matter of the POV of their respective disciplines field here. the 'Muslim scholars' in a sense here were those that hailed from the religious study of the jurisprudence accordance of Islam and historical study in accordance with Islamic view. while the 'non-muslim scholar' here were largely based on secular POV (n a sense. so my suggestion here, there should be two different lists based on those different disciplines & POV. Ahendra (talk) 05:26, 29 November 2021 (UTC)Reply
I don't think all the non-Muslim scholars here are secular, for example we have Ramon Marti, Tomás d'Aquino etc who are devout Christian theologians.VR talk 05:32, 29 November 2021 (UTC)Reply
well, should wait for others opinion here to improve the list quality. in addition, should asking Al Ameer son too. he's more experinced than me regarding WP:MOS. Ahendra (talk) 05:46, 29 November 2021 (UTC)Reply
As mentioned above, "academic" applies to the MOST RECENT ERA, when all participate in "modernist-style secular-value-conscious quasi-multicultural" universities. This tiny "academic" group was added t the original "non-Muslim", so as to include Muslim-associated authors writing for such an audience. Otherwise, +95% of authors are non-Muslim, of late-antiquity, medieval, renaissance, early-modern, or more recent. Many were not "academic" (e.g., religious, literary, merchant traveler, political). An easy solution would limit the article to books published before 1950, and/or authors born before 1900. Perhaps a title: LIST OF NON-MUSLIM AUTHORS OF ISLAMIC STUDIES. Supplements, of a kind already in the article, could address deleted authors. OR, another "List of" article could. Elfelix (talk) 22:26, 1 December 2021 (UTC)Reply
When you say "Islamic studies" you are automatically ruling out people who didn't study Islam formally. So St Thomas Aquinas or Guru Nanak, major figures who wrote on Islam, would be excluded.VR talk 01:55, 2 December 2021 (UTC)Reply
Perhaps List of Non-Muslim authors about Islam. Elfelix (talk) 05:53, 18 December 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Elfelix: That's pretty much what I had proposed the last time. If I repropose that move will you support it? Thanks. VR talk 20:38, 18 December 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Vice regent: I was keeping an eye on this move discussion from a distant place. I am very frustrated. Anyway, you do not need to re-propose that move since I am going to move this page based on your original proposal. Elfelix has already recommended something similar, so I don't believe they'll object. Your proposal was very reasonable. There is no way to keep the present title. We must either split it into two separate articles (such as List of non muslim authors on Islam and List of non Muslim scholars of Islam etc) or move it to what you have proposed. I'm going to move because I think there is a rough consensus now among the active participants. And because we have not got all the time in the universe to debate about this. There are many other important things to accomplish here on Wikipedia. Also, it appears that no one else is interested in discussing the matter anymore. Mosesheron II (talk) 21:16, 18 December 2021 (UTC)Reply