Talk:List of major Konoha teams/Archive 1

why does this article exist

the title speakes for itself.Sam ov the blue sand 04:31, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

It gives a good overview over the central characters, so why not? -- Felcis 12:11, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't think it's useful enough to stay, you can get all of this info from Naruto Plot and Naruto Hurricane Cronicles plot. I just don't get it.Sam ov the blue sand 15:46, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Sorry I tried to get rid of this article I'm a better person now.Sam ov the blue sand 22:55, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Shikamaru- chunin exam

Just putting in a correction that Shikamaru did NOT win his secound round fight, since he chose to forfeit. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 142.165.145.174 (talk) 06:24, 4 March 2007 (UTC).

Sasuke- Chunin

Wasn't Sasuke made a chunin by Genma Shiranui when the chunin exams were interrupted and he sent Sasuke after Gaara, or was that just in the anime? 198.109.96.31 20:05, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

It was an unofficial promotion. Genma assumed that Sasuke would be promoted, but he didn't. The Hokage was in charge of promotions, and he died. The only reason Shikamaru got promoted was because all of the Chunin and Jonin observers flocked to Tsunade bragging about the brilliant strategist.

In other words, Genma lied. You Can't See Me! 06:27, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Genma merely stated that Sasuke achieved Chunin level skill, not that he'd be promoted. Lionheart08 13:55, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Notability?

Is this really notable. It's just an article about a group of characters who happen to be the main Genin characters of the series, under a title which they were only called by in a single episode title (for both group names, nevertheless). Perhaps a merger with Characters of Naruto or Land of Fire would be appropriate? You Can't See Me! 06:30, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

The latter seems the more appropiate. It remains to be seen whether there exists any significance behind this group, but for the moment, I have no objections to it being merged. Sephiroth BCR 08:01, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree to merging with Land of Fire. There is no great significance to this group since after the chunin exam arc the "Rookie Nine" are no longer 'rookies', nor nine in number.StylishNihilist 02:37, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Add this

we should add this picture for part two. http://www.perumanga.com/vitrina_img/Omega/ninjas.jpg

First, the sand siblings are not part of the Rookie Nine. Next, a full body shot of all of them together would be highly preferable, although it doesn't exist as of now. Sephiroth BCR ^(Converse) 05:07, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Ok! Tad problem.

Well two actually. One I think it would be in our best intrest to add an image of Part II versions of Shino, Ino, and Tenten as to not use the rather big Team images, AND I do NOT know how to get the characters linked properly. You type in Tenten and it sends you to the List page. TheUltimate3 21:42, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Why no team images? We can put the PartII team-images of all the teams on the page, but in the team-section. That would solve the problem and look well arranged besides. ~ Felcis 22:06, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Because Team Kakashi doesn't exactly have a Team image, and it would look awkward to have those two images there. TheUltimate3 22:18, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

3 images you mean...and only the main team misses one, because it got splitted up anyway, so there is still quite a consistency there. The main characters have their own images on their pages anyway. ~ Felcis 22:30, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Hinata, Kiba, and Chouji

I'm not going to accuse people of this, but if some characters such as Shino and Ino are going to have shorten articles, others like Kiba, Chouji, and Hinata need shorten articles too. And before some people argue their grand role, yes, Kiba and Choji played a role in the final Arc in part one, but that's it. Shino played a role in the Chuunin exam but he's on this page, so it should be no different from those too. Hinata, while extremely popular, truthfully, have only had a small role in the series. It's her relationship with Naruto. Iruka is another character who has a major relationship with Naruto but he has shortened article. Hinata should be no different. Lionheart08 13:58, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Completely agree. IMO, you can do the merge anytime you want (I can't do that myself because, well, english is not my "best" language :/) - 201.79.170.1 17:53, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

I disagree and I´m not alone with that. We shouldn´t overdo it with the whole merging stuff. These characters are fine with their own pages and have good possibilities to get even more to do soon. The most notable difference between Choji/Hianta/Kiba and Shino is, that the 3 have a big background story while Shino has almost nothing, besides the information about his clan. And all 3 of them have bigger connections to other characters, too. And don´t put Iruka in, it is out of question, that he does almost nothing except in the very beginning. It´s almost as bad as with Haku and Zabuza. ~ Felcis 18:02, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

"The most notable difference between Choji/Hianta/Kiba and Shino is, that the 3 have a big background story while Shino has almost nothing, besides the information about his clan. And all 3 of them have bigger connections to other characters, too."

So do have Ino and there she is along with Shino and TenTen. And actually, aside from "I have this dog since I was a kid", Kiba's story is barelly unknown (nor does he have any deep relationship with other characters). - 201.79.170.1 20:34, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

I completely agree. I don't like the concept at all. It doesn't look right to have one member excluded from having a extended page. I think we should make it the way it used to be and stop changing main/supporting characters based on popularity, current plots and development.

First this is (conveniently) about a week or so late. Second, Ino, Shino, and Tenten hasn't done enough, or have large enough backgrounds to warrent articles. Third, comparing Hinata, who has actually had character development, alot of background, and special skills to Iruka who was at worse an instructor, and at best Naruto only friend at the start doesn't do well to help the cause. If you have complaints, please refer to the overly large debate on the subject in the List of Characters in Naruto discussion "When was it discussed to merge the Ino, Tenten, and Shino pages?". TheUltimate3 02:41, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Ino has had character development. She has grown and her relationship with Sakura has improved. Also, Ino has a much better backround story than Kiba. This merging thing is ridiculous. Neji, Rock lee, Hinata, Chouji and Kiba should have a shortened page like Ino, Shino and TenTen. Who even decided to do this? This was never discussed! And what are you gonna do when Ino or Shino appear in an arc next time? You gonna give them their own pages? So whose pages get shortened then? I just don't see the logic behind this. All the characters of Konoha 11 have always equally important (except for Naruto and Sakura of course). Some characters (Shikamaru and Hinata for example) just are more popular. I mean tell me what Hinata has done? Why does she deserve her own page more than Ino or Shino for example? Im sorry if Im being negative but this merging just doesn't make any sense!

"All the characters of Konoha 11 have always equally important" Good joke. Shikamaru for example is almost equal to Sakura in terms of importance and "screentime" while TenTen is maybe equal with somebody like Hayate (fillers excluded). This merging thing and the criterias have nothing to do with popularity or else we would have own pages for Iruka too. ~ Felcis 13:56, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

It was discussed. It was decided by everyone who cared about it. Its done. I'm sorry, but thats about it. You are welcome to an almost completely one sided debate on the subject where we already have a friggin Discussion Tree going.TheUltimate3 14:44, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Please take a look at the list of reasons characters were merged or not below, it should explain things. and to whoever said that all members of the Konoha 11 play as big a role as any other member, than you apparently haven't gotten any further than the Tsunade arc, have you?User:Artist Formerly Known As Whocares

Taken from the discussion at the bottom of the page:

You say not to respond to this, but that doesn't give anyone a chance to argue your 'facts'. The only members outside of Team 7, I can see with personal articles are Shikarmaru, Lee, and Neji.

Hinata having an explained background and relationship with Naruto is really no different then Ino, who has an explained background, and a relationship with Sakura. I'm sorry, but Hinata simply has not played a big enough role in the series.

Choji and Kiba's 'backstories' can be summed up in two sentences. Them playing a role in the Sasuke Retrieval arc is no big deal either. Shino played a pretty important role during the chunin exams, so once again you convinced me of nothing. 70.145.110.92 22:08, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

You do realize there is another discussion about the merges on THIS VERY PAGE, right? This is only to explain the reasons why they are merged. I, too, would have like Hinata to be merged, but it seems that she just keeps growing as the series progresses and that it won't be easy to merge her. And quit trying to make up excuses. Shino played a minor role in the Chunin Exams, an important role would be more along the lines of Shikamaru or Gaara or Orochimaru. In reality he was as important as Tsunami was in the Land of Waves arc. And if you go "who's that" when you first read this, then that further proves my point. User:Artist Formerly Known As Whocares

How has Hinata's role increased in the series, please tell me? With the exception of her role in the Chuunin exams, she truly hasn't done ANYTHING in the series. Or are you talking about her role after the time skip. She made one appearance, and then we didn't see her again for like 90 chapters. Sorry, but Hinata's role hasn't increased.

Kiba and Choji haven't made an impact on the series like Shikamaru, Neji, and Rock Lee have, so all three should be merged. 70.145.110.92 14:27, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Its already been discussed, Kiba and Choji have done enough has enough info on them to save them from merger. Like someone said earlier, we should NOT get into a rather large and somewhat stupid merger orgy. Hinata has done enough, and given enough info to save her from merger. TheUltimate3 14:39, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

"We should not get into a rather large and somewhat stupid merger orgy". Really? This merger orgy is needed because its stupid that Hinata has her own page when she has done nothing more than Ino or Shino. Also, Kiba's backstory? Kiba barely has a backstory so I don't see why you keep saying that's a reason. Ino's backstory is far more better/bigger than Kiba's. I think we should just give Ino, Shino and Ten Ten their pages back and forget this. You're making things complicated for no reason. If you hadn't merged Shino, Ino and TenTen there wouldn't be this problem. I mean what's the harm of Ino, Shino and tenTen having their own pages?

/rollseyes Look at the list Artist provided, it gives a very good reason why some people were merged, and some people weren't. Its not like info got lost, just more manageable. And for the record, I didn't merge anything. I actually fought the merger. But the reasons provided outwieghed everything I (and what you are saying) said. So the merge continued, and it all looks much better in my (and the others who debated about this topic when it was RELEVENT) opinion. Hell, Ino, Shino, and Tenten could have been in the List of Konoha Ninja article, and that would have been terrible. Compromises was met and they still have dignity. TheUltimate3 11:43, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Exactly, we had little to do with the mergings (besides the fact that I was the only one besdies Snapper2 who supported the mergings). Hinata has her article because her constant character development would make it hard to merge her and keep it merged, and because alot of her personality and relationships will needed to be largely explained in more than a simple paragraph. Kiba and Choji because of their backstories, personalities, and roles when they appeared were allowed to keep their own articles. Shikmaru does more than Sakura has, and Neji and Lee equal Sakura. Tenten and Shino were completely minor and largely irrelevant to the series besides minor appearances that did little outcome for the plot. Ino only did two things that actualy matter for her more than it did her team or Shikamaru, so she lost hers. User:Artist Formerly Known As Whocares

Ino has a large backstory. Far more than Kiba and some other characters. While I understand Tenten and Shino's merge slightly, I do not understand why Ino was merged. And, rookie nine aside, why on earth do Temari and Kankuro have their own articles? We should merge them into the list of Suna ninja. Hidan also has his own article and he was there for what, 50 chapters? Haku and Zabuza too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 2007 203.81.206.194 (talk)

So, I was planning on merging the three characters named in this section's title. Should I expect more questioning about my reasoning, or can I look forward to some level of support? ~SnapperTo 18:26, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm personally against it. /shrug just wouldn't seem right to have Konoha 11 (Ino, Shino, Tenten). I would rather keep it Konoha 11. Its less confusing.TheUltimate3 18:48, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

What? ~SnapperTo 21:39, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

I´m absolutely against it. Choji did enough and Kiba and Hinata are having a role in the newest arc, whose importance is unclear. We should at least wait what happens to them before we make ourself unneccessary work. Besodes even without the new arc I think all of them have big enough roles to warrant their own articles. If we merge them, we could also merge the sand siblings and Tsunade, and that would trash every clear order. We should just take Choji as a guideline for importance. Everything below him gets merged. ~ Felcis 20:45, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

If Choji were a guideline, then that would mean Hinata and Kiba should be merged. And what's wrong with merging Temari and Kankuro? ~SnapperTo 21:39, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Temari and Kankuro are important for Gaara and on their own. You can´t seriously say, that they should be merged to Land of Wind. That´s a good place for Baki and Chiyo, but not for them. And Hinata and (to a lesser degree) Kiba are more important than Choji, they just hadn´t their Part II role yet. I say we should at least wait how the current arc evolves before we do something about them. ~ Felcis 22:41, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Iruka is important for Naruto on his own. The Fourth Hokage is important for a number of characters on his own. Obito is important for Kakashi on his own. And so, I seriously can say that they should be merged to Land of Wind. As for Kiba/Hinata vs. Choji, Choji is at the moment more important. Kiba has done nothing in Part II, and Hinata barely does anything in Part I. Also, I don't see where the idea that they'll be important in coming chapters is coming from, as Ino, Choji, Tenten, Lee, and Neji were of little importance during their Part II participations. ~SnapperTo 22:49, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Compared to those you listed, Temari and Kankuro did something notable on their own. They were part in quite a few battles and have a big personality and role in the world. Kiba´s Part I activities alone justifies his article and Hinatas personality and relationship to Naruto and Neji justify hers. Besides Hinata has "potential love interest of the main char" almost pinned on her head (and not just in stupid fanfics), so it´s quite likely, that her role will expand. I also don´t see why we must make such an merge-massacer of this. "Naruto" is on of the most popular animes of it´s genre, so I don´t see it as necessaray to cut down the character-articles to the 10 most important. ~ Felcis 22:59, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

And I don't see why there needs to be an article for every character who does something. Temari, Kankuro, Kiba, and Choji are all on the same or lower levels of long-lasting contributions as Sai, Hidan, Jiraiya, and Haku, the latter four of which have all been proposed for mergings with greater degrees of agreement. As for Hinata, future importance means nothing; the Akatsuki leader will probably be important in the future, though I don't see anyone preemptively giving him an article to save time three years from now when that importance arises. Importance within a series means nothing if there isn't enough information to make an article necessary. ~SnapperTo 23:14, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

I´m okay if say with Sai´s article and I can´t remember that anybody wanted to merge Jiraya (that would be really pointless). Haku, Zaubuza, Hidan and Kakuzu were nothing more than cannon fodder for one chapter to give the protagonists somehing to fight and a reason to become stronger. There is really no reason for them to keep their articles, besides their abilities. Temari, Kankuro, Kiba, and Choji are part of the main groups, have relationships, and are not as unimportant as Tenten/Shino/Ino by far. And Hinata has enough information, even more than she has importance, so thats not the problem (in fact her article-length is more than formidable). Concerning the "future importance", it would be strange to merge here when she is in the current arc. Her role is unclear as for now, that´s true, but it would be smarter so just wait a few chapters, instead of merging her now. ~ Felcis 23:24, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Temari, Kankuro, Kiba, and Choji have been nothing but cannons that are fed with fodder. All are rather two-dimensional (with the possible exception of Choji), and the bulk of their articles are long ability sections or overly inflated personality sections. And I again ask why what a character might do in the near future impacts their article status when the majority of the returning Part I characters have had very few Part II additions. Article status is meant to be reserved for characters that outgrow feasible inclusion on a list of characters. This would not be the case for many of the Naruto characters that currently have articles, so there is no necessity in allowing them to keep their articles. ~SnapperTo 23:38, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Temari´s personality is two-dimensional? I think she has a more mature and complex personality than Choji or Lee (relationship to her brothers, relationship to Shikamaru, her own self-confidence and her views about wars and stuff), she only got less screentime than the latter. Kankuro on the other hand was indeed quite simple, but he got much more character depth in Part II so he deserves his article more than he did in Part I. Besides he has indivudual puppets that give enough to explain. Besides it would be unfitting to put them in a country-article like Land of Wind together with the likes of Chiyo, Baki and a bunch of very minor characters. ~ Felcis 23:57, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

This is where it gets so subjective. Temari does not have just a two-dimensional personality. I'd also argue that neither do Kankuro or Choji. I also accept now the arguements of the others for Hinata and Kiba under WP:CON. I believe you will find most people support keeping Choji, Hinata and Kiba's pages. I won't even bring up Temari and Kankuro since the idea shouldn't have even been considered. Merging them with the Land of Wind would be silly and put them on the same level as Matsuri *shudder*. JaceBX 03:13, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Re-indent. All of these characters can be summarized in the same length as any of the other character sections on this page. Forcibly expanding their articles for the sake of having articles is not constructive, and they better belong in a list. However, if someone could find out-of-universe information on these characters (i.e. development, creation, reception, toys, etc.), then including them would be viable under WP:V and WP:N, not to mention that cleanup could propel them to GA status. Of course, I'm being whimsical, and this is likely not going to be the case, hence they should be merged in light of the current inability to provide these articles with out-of-universe information. Sephiroth BCR ^(Converse) 23:57, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

To Felcis: So Temari and Kankuro shouldn't be merged because it would be demeaning to list them with the likes of Chiyo and Baki? What does a character's honor have to do with anything? Likewise, you seem to be under the impression that merging = loss of information, which is not the case. The size of Temari and Kankuro's entries are fairly unimportant at Land of Wind, as that article is far from pushing the limits of article size. If anything, Land of Wind needs Temari and Kankuro to be more than a random list with random characters. As for Choji, Kiba, and Hinata, the whole purpose of reorienting this article to list-build was so that they could have longer entries than they could at List of Konoha ninja. And as Sephiroth said, articles on fictional characters need a number of things to satisfy guidelines. Because it is unlikely that even Naruto could fully comply with these guidelines, some kind of weeding out of the lesser characters needs to be done. ~SnapperTo 03:12, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

I wasn´t referring to the characters honor, it would just seem strange. But whatever, I guess it wouldn´t be that bad to merge them with the article, as long as the most informations stay intact. I did not think that much information would be lost after the merge, my first concern is the clearness of the order. But if the charcters stay in the character-template I would give it a try, I guess. But what troubles me is the description of Kankuros puppets, as all 3 of them have quite unique abilities. Maybe we should recreate a puppet article? Another trifle matter would be detailled information like Birthday, height and Blood Type that would be missed after the merging. It would be nice if we can conserve that for our border characters after the merge. ~ Felcis 03:40, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Given that his puppets are one of the few recurring things about Kankuro, I don't think lack of adequate mention will be a problem. If anything, the puppets, as would all of the characters, would not see such a heavy carryover of specific details (ie. using "Choji is sensitive about his weight" instead of "Choji is sensitive about his weight, as seen during the Chunin Exams where he declares war after being called fat"). As for miscellaneous stats, I really don't care; I removed them from List of Konoha ninja to save space and because I feel they're rather trivial, but if someone wants to re-add them so be it. ~SnapperTo 04:00, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Well I guess it´s worth a try. The "trivial" informations should not be added for everyone, I just want them to be added for the "more important non article characters" like all the Konoha 11 and maybe the Sand Siblings (if we merge them). But even if we do merge Choji and Kiba, I think we should wait with Hinata, as I see her as a character with a deeper personality and importance on a more character driven level. Besides it would be nice if at least one member of team 10 has still an article, and easier for the image order. (Btw.: It still doesn´t seem to me that there are too much Character-Articles for Naruto at the moment. Just compare it to Bleach or all those minor Star Wars "Expanded Universe" characters. oO) ~ Felcis 05:56, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm still against merging the rest of the characters. After all the crap we went through duriing week 1 of the merger, just to splice up the good set of order we already have seems insulting.TheUltimate3 11:01, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Now I'm confused...I was sure Temari and Kankuro was already discussed. /sigh Anyway I don't agree with forcibly adding to articles, thats pretty much useless. But what I do comment on is that some characters has in context to the show they are in, done enough to warrent an article. Some have done more than others, thats expected. I for one, don't agree with the article (Konoha 11) being moved the the central Naruto article, on the grounds it simply doesn't belong there. TheUltimate3 01:48, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

There's no reason for this article to be moved elsewhere. Where did you get that idea? The only reason this article would disappear is if it continued to only list three characters, which (ideally) won't be the case. ~SnapperTo 03:12, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Nevermind, it would seem that Sephiroth pasted something from a different conversation on accident. No worries. ~SnapperTo 03:16, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Oh good. Well my comment on that is now void. I would do that cool scar thing but me no know how. :{ TheUltimate3 03:20, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Come on Snapper. Man at least let the debate end before stuff gets merged. How I missed this yesterday is beyond me...TheUltimate3 10:50, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Even though some characters haven't done much, I think they should still have there own page. I think that more things could be added to there pages. If other members of Team Guy have a page, Tenten deserves one too. Eventhough Ino, Hinata, and Tenten aren't as popular as Sakura, they should still have a page because they are important too. If Shikamaru has his own page, Hinata and Ino should have a page too. This goes for Shino, Kiba, and Choji!!!!!

You don't make any sense. You admit that the characters you mention haven't done much, but then you say more things can be added to their pages. Like what? Their favorite color? Neji and Lee have been shown to be important to the plot and have developed characters. Shikamaru might be the most developed non-Team 7 character in the manga. Do not put the others on their level. JaceBX 09:32, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Why even make the articles short? They don't provide nearly enough information as seperate biography pages. It seems stupid, if you ask me, for all the main characters and supporting characters that at least have a backstory to have shortened articles that don't provide nearly enough information. And besides, Team 8 is being *main characters* in part two, due to the fact they are working with Naruto and Team 7 to retrieve Sasuke now and/or eliminate Itachi.

So what if the characters aren't that important. It's not like they won't show up later in the show and their backgrounds will never be explained. The characters will have more detail as the story progresses. But now it's not their turn to be in the spotlight. Until it is, then there will be more information on them so we need the pages for the future. If you want to say they aren't shown engough and they aren't important, why is it that Temari and Kankuro have pages. What have they done, except acting as Garra's henchmen. If they can have a page then every character merged onto the Konoha 11 should have a page. Also, wikipedia users might want the information on the character's page, because the merging on Konoha 11 isn't as detailed.

Don't we get to vote on the merging before it is finalized.

Konoha 11 should be an article like before, listing it's 11 members. However, only those who have done nothing or hardly anything, have no backstory, etc. Should go here. That means, only Shino and Tenten should be here since Naruto, Sakura, Hinata, Kiba, Choji, Shikamaru, Neji, Rock Lee, and Ino should have full biographies that give the most information possible. Before, you knew the bloodtype, height, weight, etc of all the characters. Yet with merging, you have serious gaps in information. Only those who have hardly anything should be on this page.

I agree. It seems like some people have gotten too merge-happy. Ino, Hinata, Kiba, and Chouji have enough information available to justify a full article. They're not on the same level as the Naruto, Sasuke, Sakura, Shikamaru and Lee, but they're not so insignificant as to merit the same treatment as one-shot filler characters either. 71.203.209.0 15:10, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

I dont think Hinata should be merged at all. She had an enourmous amount of filler time and Like it or not people, anime filler is CANON! GET OVER IT!--Chipmonk328

I don't care if you merge but even then birthday, blood type is needed. Just add those to the article! --Darling425

Why is it needed? It's indiscriminate fancruft at best. ~SnapperTo 19:33, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

If it's "indiscriminate fancruft" then remove it from all of the other character's pages. We should have a vote on this!!!!!!!!

What Snap means is this in a nutshell: Stuff like birthdays belongs in character info boxes. If they are not in said info box, while they are not fancruft, they are not needed at all. No need for a vote, I'm just saying adding Birth dates, blood types and rank for characters in a list is unneeded for a list formate. Thank you.TheUltimate3 17:39, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Sai?

Should a shortened version of Sai's article be merged here? JaceBX 17:51, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Apparantly not, as Sai is not a member of Team 7, thus not a member of Konoha 11. TheUltimate3 19:44, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Sai is a member of Team 7. I just this might be a better place to put him than the ANBU section of List_of_Konoha_ninja if he gets merged. JaceBX 09:39, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Reasons Why Some Characters were merged here and others weren't.

First off, whatever, you do, DO NOT ADD TO THIS AT ALL OR REPLY TO THIS, this is merely the reasons why some have been merged and other shouldn't. If you want to discuss this, please go to the "Hinata, Kiba, and Choji" discussion above.

Second, these are actual facts, because I was not the one who merged them, Snapper2 did, and these are the reasons why he merged some articles and not others, making them facts.

Third, if you are going to say "oh but shikamaru plays as big a role as tenten why isn't he merged" or something similar, then you haven't at all read the series. Shikamaru has done more than Sakura has, and Neji and Lee are also major characters. A large number of characters have done more than Tenten and don't have articles, and Tenten hasn't done relatively anything at all for the series. Unless you have actual facts and very good reasonings, then "points" like these will be taken as little more than jokes to others.

Fourth, calm down about these edits, they were done becuase their articles were small and relatively were better off being merged.

Naruto, Sasuke, and Sakura - They are the main characters of the series, none should be merged here.

Shikamaru - Honestly, he does even more than Sakura has. And the moments where Sakura is simply with Team 7 deosn't count for her part. And he has abilities and backstory.

Choji - He has a very large role in the Sasuek Retrieval arc, a good backstory, and is a constantly recurring character with a large abilities list. He has done more than Ino has, too.

Ino - All she actually does is fight first the Sound Ninja then Sakura in the Chunin Exams, after that all she does is be with Team 10. even if her backstory is large, the reason we give articles is for their activeness and role in the series, and Ino has only done two things.

Kiba - Large role in the Sasuke Retrieval arc and large backstory and abilities list. And don't say he only did stuff in the Sasuke Retrieval arc, remember the Chunin Exams? And it is possible he will be doing alot in the current arc, but we can't count that yet.

Shino - He has only done two things, that's all. And those two things are only notable if you're talking about him or Zaku, and they actually don't matter at all for Kankuro.

Hinata - Large backstory and personality, her relationship to Naruto, and her abilities need some explanation.

Neji - He has the largest backstory out of all the Konoha 11 besides, even compared to Sakura and Ino. He has a very large abilities list, and has done a large role for the series. His development as a character also always strengthens largely in two arcs, first his personality changes to good and then he experiences what it is like to be on a side that will most likely lose.

Lee - Abilities and backstory, personaltiy, relationship with Guy.

Tenten - The fact that I must explain why she got merged proves just how much you guys don't know of the situation at all. Characters like Izumo and Kotetsu, Chiyo, and Nine-Tails have completely out-done her yet at the time this is written they don't have articles, so why should she?

And as said, DO NOT EDIT THIS OR REPLY TO THIS. This is merely to explain the mergings. User:Artist Formerly Known As Whocares

I have just moved some comments to another discussion about the same thing on this very talk page. To whoever made the comment, please argue at that discussion. I did not move your posts for my advantage, but rather for this section to simply be a list instead of a discussion, like I intended it to be. User:Artist Formerly Known As Whocares

Specfic Character Technique image

If you look around, I added a few images to a few articles to demonstrate a specific technique that character uses. However one problem I have met with was the technique for the three ninja in this article. While Fel is correct it would probably be better in the Technique list, the images could be used here directly. Thoughts? TheUltimate3 01:20, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Those images are more appropiate in the jutsu list, where they are directly relevant and the FUR can be upheld. Sephiroth BCR ^(Converse) 01:23, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Probably, however after the massive image deletion from that page, I would rather them stay on the character's article. I mentioned in the Fair Use rational that they demonstrate the character and the use in question. TheUltimate3 01:27, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

That won´t happen again if we don´t overdo it. When it happened the first time, tehre were images for almost every jutsu ever shown in the series, eveon for those in the fillers. If we just add images for signature jutsus (1-2 per character) it should be fine. ~ Felcis 01:35, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

What is the criteria for a page?

Because if we go by Wikipedia's standards for fictional characters then Naruto himself might not even qualify for a page. So common sense has to be applied. Although I believe some characters like Hinata, Tsunade, Kiba and Temari would qualify under WP:N. We also have to consider that a similar manga/anime like Bleach has numerous Character-Articles even for characters who aren't that important. Since Naruto is such a highly researched subject, I believe making things accessible is also vital. If I want info about Temari or Hinata, I'd rather not have to sift through a long country or group related page with numerous other characters. I would like to be able to go to their own page. Makes things easier and less jumbled. I think we should stay away from the merge orgy for the time being until there is a large consensus WP:CON on what to do. Or at least until a proper criteria is accepted. JaceBX 18:34, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

If you can provide enough out-of-universe information for those articles to qualify under WP:N, then go ahead and add it and we'll happily recreate the article. Until then, they're better off in a list that is more accessible. As for the Bleach articles, read WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS. Sephiroth BCR ^(Converse) 18:38, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Because it's unlikely that any character can fully meet standards, narrowing down the number of characters with articles to those who can't feasibly be on a list is the best option. And I don't see why you'd have difficulty finding what you're looking for; Ino Yamanaka takes you to her entry here, so you there's no need to sift through a long list. ~SnapperTo 19:59, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

This is not an official name.

The term "Konoha 11" has only been used once, to the best of my recollection. It was in fact used solely in an episode title, not even in the content of the episode. I'd suggest renaming the article "List of main characters of Naruto," or something to that effect. That way, even Sai, Asuma, and Kurenai can be merged in.

By the way, I'm a bit uncomfortable with the fact that the main characters of Naruto are merged together while Kakuzu, Hidan, Zabuza, and other characters who are only important because of their deaths get their own articles. Any way to remedy that? You Can't See Me! 00:01, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

/shrug I think the name Konoha 11 works, for the reason this article exist. I continue to have my doubts that Sai and Asuma will be losing there articles any time soon. Kakuzu and Hidan if I am correct were to be merged back into Akatsuki page, and Zabuza and Haku if I am correct have there own pages as there isn't (as far as I could gather from our last debate on them) a good enough place to put them without dumping most of there info.TheUltimate3 00:45, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

As for characters important only for their deaths, who says we're finished? This article was simply in need of more than three characters. ~SnapperTo 02:42, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

It gives more info on the Teams than I actually know, like Team Kurenai being search specialist. Does that count as in need of more Snapper? TheUltimate3 03:26, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

I meant the article needed to list more characters than just Shino, Ino, and Tenten, or else there'd be little need in having the article in the first place. ~SnapperTo 03:40, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Well the article as I thought it was ment to reference the main teams of Naruto, and provide info on the characters that didn't have articles.TheUltimate3 03:44, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Introduction Clarifications

Two quick changes: As Team Guy is included, it is incorrect to call this a group of rookies. A sentence was added to note that Sasuke Uchiha is not included in the 11 due to his exit from the Leaf.

Please let me know if I'm out of line with either of these edits. Kakarrott64 06:50, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Notes and references part

well, what is the reason, that this part even exits? references are listed in the Sources part, and there isn't any note... if there isn't any data goes there, that section could be deleted Drhlajos 12:46, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Changes

I haven't been on Naruto's wiki page for a long time, but i have a couple questions

• Why don't Shino, Tenten, Kiba and Hinta have there own pages anymore?
• Why don't we list some of there attacks anymore?
• What happend the arcs (Sasuke retreval arc etc.?)Ultimaterasengan 15:59, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

1) Because the few willed it to be so.

2) There important techniques are still listed, just not on there character pages anymore. To cumbersome I suppose.

3) The arcs themselves are still there, but in a condensed, not story like form.

I hope this clears some things up. TheUltimate3 19:21, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

oh, thanks :)Ultimaterasengan 21:57, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Konoha 11

Why is it called this now why isn't Rookie nine anymore?Ultimaterasengan 17:06, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Because when Tenten, Ino, and Shino lost there articles and this large debate began, I suggested we use the completely ignored Rookie Nine page for them. Days after being ignored, Artist or Snap resuggested using Rookie Nine, and then decided to rename it Konoha 11 to be more inclusive.TheUltimate3 18:26, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Why not add Sasuke and Sai to Konoha 11

The thought just crossed my mind and has stayed there for a few reasons. Sasuke was a member of the Rookie Nine, and as such should be mentioned in the Team 7 part, and Sai while not a member of Konoha 11 is a member of Team Yamato, which was simply Team Kakashi a.k.a. Team 7 with just Yamato as the team leader.TheUltimate3 14:21, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

While I do partly agree with you, the Konoha 11 was formed in the filler arcs, and actually acted as group. At that point, Sasuke was still with Orochimaru and Sai hadn't made an appearance. So in all technicality neither Sai or Sasuke are members of the group. Lionheart08 18:22, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

The article is also about Rookie Nine (that what the article was before it was renamed remember?), which Sasuke was apart of, and the individual teams (Like Team 7 which Sai is apart of. )TheUltimate3 02:14, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

The Rookie 9 are briefly mention, but this page was really made to give shortened articles to the lesser important characters. And there's the fact that Neither Sai or Sasuke are members of the group. 70.145.110.92 02:23, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Oh god...

This is embarrassing. There is no reason why someone got overtly merge-happy. Wikipedia doesn't have an article limit unless of course things have changed in the last two months since I've been on.

More importantly, the "Konoha eleven" only existed in fillers. I would strongly suggest merging to a series of articles that represent what actually does exist, and can be backed up by BOTH the manga AND the anime:

• Team 7 (Naruto)/Team Kakashi
• Team 8 (Naruto)/Team Kurenai
• Team 10 (Naruto)/Team Asuma
• Team Guy/Team Gai
• etc.

This has the advantage that we can also merge Kakashi, Kurenai, Asuma, Gai into the articles where appropriate. (Strictly speaking, the Jounins are also part of the Teams.)
I would also like to add that using the longer naming style will allow us to merge Sai and Yamato into the Team Kakashi article. However, we will have to rename this to something other than "Konoha Eleven" to reflect this addition, as it logically should be.
I therefore suggest the following:

1. Create the above articles
2. Move the content about the characters to the correct articles
3. Define what "Konoha Eleven" means and use summary style throughout the rest of this article.

If things around the wiki have changed and splitting this article into the above four articles isn't appropriate, I would suggest:

1. Refactoring the page into the following subsections:
   1. Team Kakashi
   2. Team Kurenai
   3. Team Asuma
   4. Team Guy
2. Enforcing the merge of minor characters (this includes the Jounins too)
3. Write a summary section where a main article exists

Now, I would like to hand out some free, unsolicited advice on what has happened in the merging the debacle so far: If you are really serious about merging articles, do it completely or don't do it at all. This is hardly a serious attempt at merging articles. There is clear bias in this article. Shikamaru shouldn't have his own article since none of Team 8 have their own article. I don't care about his article size. His article size doesn't even come into the equation. Just compare his article size to say, what Hinata's was. And yet hers was merged. I'd hardly say he is more notable to an outsider. If Team 8 are worthy of moving here, then perhaps I should nominate him for deletion so he gets merged here too, perhaps?

Come to think of it, as a side point I would also like to question the original logic for moving Team 8 in the first place. If you look at LionHeart08's first post in the above discussion, he basically stated that Team 8 only played a role in part 1. Everyone in the discussion then disagreed with him. They were then merged. This is wrong. They are now playing a big role in the current arc. Wow. That's all I can say.
--davidh.oz.au 12:35, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Should we merge Sakura too? Because Shikamaru is easily more important than her. Or should he be merged just because the rest of his team is so unimportant? Anyway, having own articles for each team would be fine by me, but somehow it negates the effect of all the merging stuff in my opinion. ~ Felcis 12:51, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Please...no more of this. Not now.TheUltimate3 13:22, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

This has gotten far too out of hand. I suggest that this article gets completely locked, and only administrators can edit it. And don't say that Team 8 has played a role yet, all they simply did was be there by this point. Only when they actually take part in a battle will they actually play a role in this arc. Wait, I have an idea! Let's merge EVERY Naruto character article there is, even Naruto's article! That's prety much what everyone is doing now, so why not make it official? Because blah blah blah? Who cares? No one is so much as paying attention to the rules of Wikipedia anymore and have just gone on a merging rampage. In fact, now I doubt that we should even have Naruto characters articles anymore, seeing as how all anyone sees them as anymore is just another article to merge. User:Artist Formerly Known As Whocares 13:52 (Eastern Standard Time), 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Calm down Arist, calm down. For the most part, I say we ignore this and get back the disucssions already at hand. TheUltimate3 18:36, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it would be best ignoring this. Besides, he suggested merging Kakashi, which shows that there isn't even a reason to listen to his suggestion. User:Artist Formerly Known As Whocares 14:51 (Eastern Standard Time), 15 July 2007 (UTC)

To focus on the "unsolicited advice", Hinata, and the rest of Team 8, hardly compare to Shikamaru in terms of article size. The idea that article size does not matter is clear bias, as is the idea that Hinata and Shikamaru are on the same level. First, Shikamaru's article is longer than hers was, no matter what you like to think to the contrary. Second, the bulk of Hinata's article was focused on a single point spread out across around 8 paragraphs. Fortunately, Shikamaru's is a tad more diverse than that.

As for a comparable notability, that I might be willing to give you. However, the key issue there is that neither Hinata's nor Shikamaru's article properly assert that notability according to WP:WAF guidelines. If Hinata, any member of Team 8, Kiba's mother's dog, or any character in general can overcome this obstacle I could care less who gets an article and who doesn't. The issue, of course, is that it is extremely unlikely that any of Naruto characters can satisfy this goal. So we merge the characters who don't really need to have articles, to the outrage of fans everywhere, and reduce the number of individual character articles to a fraction of their former quantities.

As for your opinion that the members of Team 8 are suddenly playing "big roles" in the series, I must question this logic as I have done in another discussion. First, I assume a "big role" qualifies as accompanying the "major characters" in whatever mission they're doing at the time, which would mean that Team Guy played a "big role" in the Rescue Gaara arc and that all of Team 10 played a "big role" in the Hidan and Kakuzu arc. Since those two teams' contributions hardly amounted to anything "big" in those two examples (with the exception of Shikamaru and the limited exception of Asuma), I don't see how you can assume Team 8 will be an exception to the new norm. While it wouldn't be surprising if one of the members did something important in the coming chapters, potential future importance is an inadequate criteria for giving someone an article. If Hinata ends up singlehandedly killing the whole of Akatsuki, or something else that would qualify as "important", then, and only then, can she can have an article. ~SnapperTo 21:03, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Exactly, even though that was very confusing due to length. Only a select few articles are far beyond merging, those few being All of the original Team 7, Shikamaru, Gaara, Orochimaru, and Tsunade. (Also, Orochimaru's article is no long plot) Alot of them wouldn't lose any important information if they were merged, and there are several in the middle who can be debatable. The first and last points are entirely correct. The second one is a bit confusing, since I have no read WAF, but I'll read it to know what you mean. But, as TheUltimate3 has been suggesting, can we stop with the merges and instead discuss who DESERVES an article instead of who shall be merged next? User:Artist Formerly Known As Whocares 17:58 (Eastern Standard Time), 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Nevertheless, my suggestion about refactoring the article by teams so we can include include Sai still stands. His article is only 7k long, which is about the same size as Kiba's and Shino's were. Although I retract my suggestion about including the jounins in here. Heh. That was only to get attention. —davidh.oz.au 01:19, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm against that completely. Sai as far as we have already discussed can't be merged anywhere well as of now, same with Yamato. I don't want them split into three seperate articles because 1)Team 7 will all but be empty. 2) That makes three more articles which those who actually watch these articles for vandals have to deal with. Now I support Artists decision to do what I asked. A discussion about who DESERVES articles.TheUltimate3 02:06, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Sai should not be included in this article so long as it retains the "Konoha 11" title. Move the article to a new name if you want to include him. As for discussing who should be kept, I was under the impression that had already started at some other discussion. Plenty of people have given their opinions on who should keep their individuality and who should lose it, so it's a matter of sifting through all the opinions to find what can generally be agreed upon. ~SnapperTo 03:04, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Just to Make It Official. (Merge Order)

I've seen it before, so I figured I would step up and make it official. However, I thought it would be a more logical idea to simply merge it with List of Konoha ninja instead. Yes, I know, I already smell the smoke from the flame war that is bound to ensue... But I'm willing to step up and take it. DanTheBigMan 08:22, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

So we can make List of Konoha ninja longer, more cumbersome, and more unreadable? These characters logically belong on a page with each other, and their association is noted in the manga and anime, which makes then notable under WP:N and WP:FICT, as well as allowing them to have verifiable sources. As for merging, you have not stated a single reason to back your argument other than it is "logical." Elaborate. Sephiroth BCR ^(Converse)

Well you already know I'm against it. List of Konoha Ninja is already friggin long, no need to add these guys to it. EDIT: Well might as well elaborate. As I see it, the List of Konoha Ninja is primarily a thread for the unimportant Konoha ninja, characters that can appear to be important, but are limited. To that end, some of the members of Konoha 11 are in the same boat with a noticable difference, they are notable in both the manga and in the real world. /shrug I can bet that most people will be able to give details of the members in Konoha 11, than most of the people on the List of Konoha ninja page. That being said, to merge these characters would require to move all there info to the List, which would as Sephiroth said would make it even more difficult to read and cumbersome. And there is no logical way to get rid of some info because by simply merging these characters here we had to get rid of the uesless info, and this is how long the article has become. Get rid of anymore, then we are simply deleting info. TheUltimate3 10:45, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Also, this page focuses on characters around Naruto's age and their significance to the overall plot of Naruto. If we merge, then it will be long as Sephiroth mentioned, but also, the characters in List of Konoha ninja are merely "extras" if you know what I mean. Sorry for my poor English but I'm tired. =p If you want me to explain a bit more, just leave a message and I'll elaborate Omghgomg 12:23, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Okay, okay, I see the err of my ways now. After reading over everything, I've changed my suggestion. I've now officially suggested the split into pages detailing characters into their teams. Like it's been said about a dozen times before, the "Konoha 11" exsisted only for a single filler arc, which, at times, could even be considered non-canon material. If we did that with every group, then wouldn't we have to do it for every team? The five-man Sasuke retrieval squad, and those who joined afterwards, the original Rookie Nine from the Chunin Exams... Heck, might as well even give the Sound Four/Five their own page as well. Not even to mention the team of Jiraiya and Naruto, Shizune and Tsunade... The list goes on of teams that have been together for far longer than this one. DanTheBigMan 07:55, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Splitting implies an excess of content. This page is far too small for that. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 07:57, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Should it just be deleted, then? I don't see it as anywhere near important enough to keep. DanTheBigMan 07:58, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

People don't share your opinion. Run an AfD if you want that. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 08:02, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Merge it. Lord Sesshomaru

The page can't be split into seperate teams because there simply isn't enough info on each individual team (with the exception of Team Kakashi) to warrent those kinds of pages. As such Hebi, Sasukes Team are extreamly new and as of yet there isn't enough info for them to have there own page. That may change in the future but for now they are perfect in the Land of Sound page.TheUltimate3 10:09, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Contrary to what this article might be called, it is not about the Konoha 11; it is merely a list of characters who happen to belong to the group. This, like Land of Sound, Tailed beasts, and (until recently) Akatsuki (Naruto), is simply a list that is not titled as such. Basing your desire to merge this article on the fact that its title is that of a single filler, non-canon group is an awful reason since that is not what this article is about. ~SnapperTo 19:23, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

I still have a really old draft for a Team Asuma article in my userspace from who-knows-when. Combining Asuma's, Shikamaru's, Ino's, and Choji's articles, it exists at a healthy 35kb. I think the same can be achieved for Team Kurenai. Team 7 might combine Sai and Yamato and list the original members. Others can be grouped by team as well, such as Gaara's and Sarutobi's. Guy's would probably be a bit of trouble, but it might be possible.

At the time this idea was initially shot down, it was because:

That really seems like a more dramatic step than necessary. Putting Tenten on a list of sorts I could support, but putting almost every character on a similar list is overstepping the need to lessen the amount of articles. ~SnapperTo 05:59, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

...but we seem to have gotten over that. So, are there any other reasons that a poorly-named, non-canon group article and a load of individual articles are more preferable than the team solution? You Can't See Me! 00:51, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Because there's no reason to have five different articles that can easily be combined into one (either new or preexisting), and because some members of these teams have enough information to warrant their own articles. Again, saying something should be merged or split or what have you simply because it's named after a "non-canon" group is an awful reason. ~SnapperTo 01:45, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

It would be a waste to make more articles when One gets the job done. A big waste of time, and an inconvienence to all.TheUltimate3 02:12, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

1. Konoha 11
2. Naruto
3. Sasuke
4. Sakura
5. Kakashi
6. Sai
7. Yamato
8. Shikamaru
9. Shikamaru
10. Kurenai
11. Lee
12. Neji
13. Guy
14. Orochimaru
15. Tsunade
16. Jiraiya
17. Sarutobi

Or...

1. Team 7
2. Naruto
3. Sasuke
4. Sakura (Maybe)
5. Kakashi
6. Team 8
7. Team 10
8. Shikamaru (Again, maybe)
9. Team Guy
10. Lee
11. Neji (Maybe)
12. Team Sarutobi
13. Orochimaru

Merging by teams will reduce the number of articles by 4-7. Not to mention, it would also warrant other merges, such as Zabuza and Haku's team. And we won't even have an issue with the nomenclature.

By the way: We can't have articles about things that don't exist in their own realm. They are never referred at all as the Konoha 11 except in an episode title. It would be the same as moving Naruto's article to The Number One Hyperactive, Knucklehead Ninja. It has nothing at all to do with that arc being canon or not. You Can't See Me! 04:27, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

As I said, there does not need to be an article on each team when they can all be grouped together. And rather than fault this article because you dislike its name and then come up with ways of making it go away, why not just move it to a new title? ~SnapperTo 04:34, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

I suggested that in an above topic, but it got shot down quickly. I'm not even trying to fault the article; I was just pointing out that Team merging is a viable alternative rather than the unreasonable impossibility that it keeps getting brushed aside as. You Can't See Me! 05:24, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Unlike what you may think, You Can't See Me!, Shikamaru is a main character in the series (and so is Gaara, along with Team 7, duh), and so warants an article simply for that reason, as main characters get loads of info and development. Neji and Lee a major characters in the series and have enough for apage, and so does Jiraiya, Itachi, Orochimaru, the Third Hokage, and Tsunade. The rest of the articles can be merged someplace, the only problems being length of merge location, where to merge them, and minor things for each seperate article. And the only team that would have enough for their own page is Team 8, as non of them have articles. Team 10 has too little information, Team Guy has too many members with articles, all of Team 7 has articles (Yamato and Sai are not Team 7 members, but part of a different yet similar team), and Team Baki is defunct. As said, the only articles that we really need are Naruto, Sasuke, Kakashi, Sakura, Shikamaru, Gaara, Jiraiya, Neji, Lee, Orochimaru, Itachi, the Third Hokage, and Tsunade, the rest can be merged for all I care, especially Asuma, who has the worst article there is. And, as said, this article is not an article about the Konoha 11 or Rookie Nine anymore, it is simply a place to put merged characters who were Konoha Genin during their introduction. (Sai = ANBU; Konohmaru, Moegi, and Udon were in the academy; Nawaki can't have an article) If you want to find a name where Sai can also be merged, try. And if you try merging a member of the original Team 7, that would cause a complete outrage by the readers and editors, so nothing good would come out of it. User:Artist Formerly Known As Whocares, 16:59 (Eastern Standard Time), July 30 2007 (UTC)

And to add, before someone starts saying Sai and Yamato get merged. They are important in Part II. They are more important than simply being extras which keeps them off the List of Konoha Ninja page.TheUltimate3 21:16, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

I won't deny that Shikamaru is a major character (I wouldn't go so far to say that he is a main character, though) in a notable series. But does that make him inherently notable? Is there any real-world information on his article? What about Sai? Or Yamato? Most of the characters shouldn't even have articles. The only reason I've laid off of Team 7 is because I can't possibly do anything to those without a struggle.

Come to think about it, perhaps dividing by team isn't the best solution, but I think I have an idea in the works. It'll be ready in a few days. You Can't See Me! 05:19, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

This has already been discussed. Characters who can't be contained in a list of characters will, in the end, be the only ones with articles. Very few characters actually meet this criteria, and the original members of Team 7 happen to be well over half of them. ~SnapperTo 06:32, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

And they are the original Naruto, Sakura, Sasuke, Kakashi, Shikamaru, and Gaara, and to an extent Orochimaru. All information that is needed in-universe is there. The only charatcers where out-of-universe information can be listed are the original Team 7, Konohamaru, Mizuki, and Iruka, the rest Kishimoto has given NO info on from an out-of-universe, so blame him, not Wikipedia. Because of this, only four articles can have out-of-universe by this point. We merely make due with what we have, so there's no possible way the out-of-universe information you seek can be found, You Can't See Me!. Please take this into perspective, as the way it seems you assume all characters have out-of-universe info we never bothered mentioning, which is untrue. Also, I call Shikamaru and Gaara main charatcers because of their constnat development, many appearances, importance to the plot and possilbe importance to future plot, and their equalness to Sakura in notability. User:Artist Formerly Known As Whocares; 19:30 (Eastern Standard Time), 31 July 2007 (UTC)

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