Talk:List of entertainment events at Civic Arena (Pittsburgh, PA)

Add a show

Please add that U2 performed on October 22nd, 2005

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOsOv2vmz20&ab_channel=U2start

https://u2tours.com/tours/concert/mellon-arena-pittsburgh-oct-22-2005

Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 20:00, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

This would be a better source than any of those, I think? It's from The Province. Valereee (talk) 22:44, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for your assistance Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 22:47, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: The changes are not supported by neutral, independent, reliable sources. Please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.  Valereee's source did not state that U2 performed on October 22nd, 2005. While your sources are not reliable. Lightoil (talk) 02:55, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

how about some concert reviews instead, will that be ok? Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 23:37, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

Depends on where they're from. The Province or some other Vancouver newspaper, yes. Some random bloggy concert review site, no. Or you could decide whether the exact date is crucial, throw away the exact date, and use The Province to support they performed in 2005. Valereee (talk) 00:10, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

Ok, because I had this in mind but I'm uncertain and I would like a second opinion Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 02:40, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

That's a fan site. While about-self/affiliated can be used for certain noncontroversial details, why would you use one when you've got a reliable source in The Province? Valereee (talk) 15:23, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

Because Lightoil said The Province didn't confirm they performed on that day. I would say the YouTube source I put is probably the most reliable because it was from that tour and I heard Bono say "Pittsburgh" multiple times in that video. Don't get me wrong, I thought The Province was excellent. Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 18:27, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

Maybe this one might help Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 18:37, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

Also perhaps you may have pages mixed up but this is the Vancouver problem which then The Province is relevant. But unfortunately The Province isn't relevant for this show. Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 18:31, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

Yes, I had the pages mixed up, sorry, but the problem on both is the same: YouTube is almost never a reliable source for anything -- literally anyone can post anything there -- and listening for Bono to say "Pittsburgh" is original research. Flickr is not a reliable source; literally anyone could post a photo, incorrectly say it's October 22 2005 in Pittsburgh, and hit publish. The Province doesn't help here, but you need to find something similarly reliable for this information you want to add.

I'm afraid these discussions are demonstrating why you shouldn't be editing directly. You still don't seem to be understanding what is and isn't a reliable source. You need to go spend significant time reading about WP:reliable sources. This is the exact problem you were blocked for, and which you said you now understood.

I would say it might not be a bad idea for you to adopt a rule for yourself: If it's not listed in green at WP:RSNP, you should stay away from it. That's unfortunately going to rule out a ton of reliable sources that haven't been discussed multiple times at WT:RS -- such as The Province, for example -- but it might help you learn to distinguish the difference. Valereee (talk) 12:58, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Well what if its a review in a Pittsburgh newspaper? Will that work? Additionally on Flickr I saw the datestamp on the photo say "Oct 22 2005" which makes me think "if it'snot there then what other notable concerts from around the world took place?"Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 03:26, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Heres a source I found from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. This talks about the tour in general and mentioned it stopped by the Mellon Arena (what it was called at the time being) "last October" this newspaper was from December 20th, 2005. Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 03:39, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Trying to figure it out by datestamps is original research, which we don't do here. The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, like most major-city newspapers, is a reliable source. It's behind a paywall for me, but if it says in December 2005 that the tour was in October, we can add "October 2005" to the article. Valereee (talk) 12:59, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Oh, wait, I can get it through Newspapers.com...I don't see where it says "last October" or mentions Mellon? Valereee (talk) 13:08, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Are you talking about the "Reality Check" article that starts with the heading U2 Earns Top Dollar? Valereee (talk) 13:10, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

I have one more.

https://www.newspapers.com/image/96600557/?terms=%22U2%22%20%22vertigo%22%20%22mellon%22&match=19

This is the best I've got that isn't original research. This is from a couple days prior to the show. Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 17:35, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

We can't use stuff that was published prior to the show. It has to be after. Valereee (talk) 18:00, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

I take it back, here's one more Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 17:46, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

The WYEP (which is a radio station) is a RS and gives the full date. We can add based on that. Valereee (talk) 17:53, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

I've added it. Valereee (talk) 17:58, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

thank you so much Valereee, again you are my favorite wikipedian. Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 18:45, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, but there are any number of other editors who are as or more helpful! Valereee (talk) 18:57, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

To be honest helpful is hard to find on this website. Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 00:08, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Also I don't see datestamps under "original research" on No original research. Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 17:42, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

You can discuss with others at WP:ORN whether datestamps on Flickr photos is original research or not, per the exceptions for routine calculation. They're the experts. Unless they agree it's not, for me it's OR. Valereee (talk) 17:54, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Add a show J. Geils

Please add that J. Geils Band performed on August 21, 1982 as part of the Freeze-Frame Tour. Here's the source in question from The Pittsburgh Press Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 23:08, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

here's a better source"Wolf hasn't prowled a Pittsburgh stage as J. Geils singer since Aug. 21, 1982, at the Civic Arena". Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 02:53, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

I would say that the "better" source is pretty poor. First, as far as I can tell, concertarchives.org is user generated content. It appears that anyone with an account can write anything they want on that site, and the site's About page doesn't indicate that there is any editorial oversight. Second, the page you link to is just an image, purportedly of an advertisement by Saratoga Performing Arts Center, but anyone could cobble together a similar image that says anything and upload it. Nothing verifies that the image is what it purports to be. I wonder why you think this source is better than the first one, from the Pittsburgh Press? CodeTalker (talk) 02:15, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

@CodeTalker The "better source" was supposed to have a different link and I will go a my bad on that one, I mean the show is already listed but I'll still put the source I intended to put right here. Thanks for pointing that out, what went from me saying I have some decent knowledge with articles assisting me now turned into a learning experience that I should make sure the link is for what was intended for as I was sending the link from concertarchives.org to my father and forgot about it but again thanks for pointing it out. Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 00:06, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

 Done, added. @Thomasthedarkenguine: Thanks for the Pittsburgh Press source. ~Anachronist (talk) 17:25, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Add a show Madonna

According to this Madonna performed at the arena on May 28, 1985 on the Virgin Tour. With the Beastie Boys as opening acts. Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 23:37, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Actually it looks like it just says 1985. Where are you getting May 28? Valereee (talk) 13:41, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Let's just use this website again. Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 15:35, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

That's 404. Valereee (talk) 15:50, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Well now I'm sad, I found a website that was like a Bible (metaphor) and now it's 404. Now I know how Willie Nelson felt during his IRS raid. Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 15:53, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

You had the right URL? If so, check wayback machine. (And FFR, you can ask wayback to archive an URL.) Valereee (talk) 16:04, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

For a slight second I forgot Wayback machine existed. Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 16:13, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Add Shows Van Halen

According to this Van Halen has performed numerous times

First one: April 30, 1980 Van Halen World Invasion Tour

Second one: July 14, 1981 Fair Warning Tour

Third one: November 1, 1982 Hide Your Sheep Tour

Fourth one: March 7, 1984 1984 Tour

Fifth one: May 13, 1986 5150 Tour

Sixth one: April 30, 2008 Van Halen 2007–2008 North American Tour. Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 23:10, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

If you'll create the tables here or in your sandbox as you want it to be, it would make it easier for people to simply copy/paste. Editing tables in source is all way too fiddly for me. Valereee (talk) 13:46, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

I'll do that once I get on my laptop. Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 15:37, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Add Shows Bruce Springsteen

Let's use this again

November 30, 1980/December 1, 1980: The River Tour

March 20, 1988: Tunnel of Love Express Tour

December 16, 1992: Bruce Springsteen 1992–1993 World Tour

December 4, 2002: The Rising Tour

November 14, 2007: Magic Tour

May 19, 2009: Working on a Dream Tour Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 23:23, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

Ditto. Create it here or in your sandbox and someone can just copy it over instead of having to edit the tables in source. Valereee (talk) 13:47, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

I'll make a table that you can move into the article

Table

1970s Entertainment events at the Civic Arena Dates Artist Tour Supporting acts Attendance Notes Reference 1970 May 2, 1970 The Doors Roadhouse Blues Tour Blues Image [1] 1972 July 22, 1972 Rolling Stone The Rolling Stones American Tour 1972 [2] 1976 May 15, 1976 Parliament-Funkadelic P-Funk Earth Tour [3] 1979 May 29, 1979 Rod Stewart Blondes 'Ave More Fun Tour [4] 1980s Entertainment events at the Civic Arena Dates Artist Tour Supporting acts Attendance Notes Reference 1980 April 30, 1980 Van Halen Van Halen World Invasion Tour [5] November 30, 1980 Bruce Springsteen The River Tour [6] December 1, 1980 1981 May 6, 1981 Rush Moving Pictures Tour [7] July 14, 1981 Van Halen Fair Warning Tour [8] 1982 August 21 J. Geils Band Freeze Frame Tour The Motels [9] October 13, 1982 Judas Priest World Vengeance Tour [10] November 1, 1982 Van Halen Hide Your Sheep Tour [11] 1983 August 8 The Police Synchronicity Tour [12] 1984 March 7, 1984 Van Halen 1984 Tour [13] April 9 Judas Priest Metal Conqueror Tour Great White September 21 Bruce Springsteen Born in the U.S.A. Tour 34,517 / 34,517 September 22 1985 April 9, 1985 U2 The Unforgettable Fire Tour [14] May 28, 1985 Madonna The Virgin Tour Beastie Boys [15] August 23, 1985 Tina Turner Private Dancer Tour [16] 1986 May 13, 1986 Van Halen 5150 Tour [17] June 20, 1986 Run-DMC Raising Hell Tour Beastie Boys, LL Cool J, Whodini [18] August 5, 1986 Judas Priest Fuel for Life Tour [19] October 7, 1986 Bon Jovi Slippery When Wet Tour [20] 1988 March 20, 1988 Bruce Springsteen Tunnel of Love Express Tour [21] July 5, 1988 Iron Maiden Seventh Tour of a Seventh Tour Frehley's Comet [22] August 31 1988 Guns N' Roses Appetite for Destruction Tour [23] September 1, 1988 George Michael The Faith Tour [24] September 3, 1988 Judas Priest Mercenaries of Metal Tour [25] September 26, 1988 Michael Jackson Bad Tour 48,694 / 48,694 September 27, 1988 September 28, 1988 1989 June 13, 1989 Bon Jovi New Jersey Syndicate Tour [26] June 14, 1989 September 19 Elton John Sleeping with the Past Tour 1990s Entertainment events at the Civic Arena Dates Artist Tour Supporting acts Attendance Notes Reference 1990 January 25 Aerosmith Pump Tour 16,635 / 16,635 March 13 Janet Jackson Rhythm Nation World Tour 1990 [27] December 17 Judas Priest Painkiller Tour [28] 1991 November 7 Paula Abdul Under My Spell Tour [29] November 21 Metallica Wherever We May Roam Tour [30] 1992 December 16, 1992 Bruce Springsteen Bruce Springsteen 1992–1993 World Tour [31] 1993 February 26 Bon Jovi Keep the Faith Tour September 17 Depeche Mode Devotional Tour [32] 1994 April 20, 1994 Rush Counterparts Tour [33] 1996 November 3, 1996 Rush Test for Echo Tour [34] 1997 May 4, 1997 Marilyn Manson Dead to the World Tour [35] 1998 January 9 Aerosmith Nine Lives Tour [36] August 27 Hanson Albertane Tour [37] September 29 Korn Family Values Tour 1998 Rammstein, Ice Cube, Limp Bizkit, Orgy December 4 Kiss Psycho Circus World Tour [38] 1999 January 4 Aerosmith Nine Lives Tour [39] March 11 The Rolling Stones No Security Tour [40] July 19 Kid Rock Devil Without a Cause Tour Limp Bizkit, Staind October 3 ZZ Top XXX Tour [41] November 20 TLC FanMail Tour [42] 2000s Entertainment events at the Civic Arena Dates Artist Tour Supporting acts Attendance Notes Reference 2000 April 25 Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band Reunion Tour [43] April 26 June 7, 2000 Blink-182 The Mark, Tom and Travis Show Tour [44] July 26 Dr. Dre, Snoop Dogg, Ice Cube, Eminem Up in Smoke Tour August 6, 2000 AC/DC Stiff Upper Lip World Tour Slash's Snakepit [45] September 2, 2000 Tim McGraw and Faith Hill Soul2Soul Tour [46] 2001 May 6, 2001 U2 Elevation Tour [47] November 2, 2001 Britney Spears Dream Within a Dream Tour [48] October 26, 2001 Slipknot Iowa World Tour [49] 2002 July 5, 2002 Cher Living Proof: The Farewell Tour [50] December 4, 2002 Bruce Springsteen The Rising Tour [51] 2003 January 10, 2003 The Rolling Stones Licks Tour [52] July 28, 2003 Justin Timberlake and Christina Aguilera The Justified & Stripped Tour Black Eyed Peas [53] September 29, 2003 Shania Twain Up! Tour [54] 2005 April 23, 2005 Green Day American Idiot World Tour [55] October 22 U2 Vertigo Tour [56] December 6, 2005 Bon Jovi Have a Nice Day Tour [57] 2006 March 20, 2006 Queen + Paul Rodgers Queen + Paul Rodgers Tour [58] May 13, 2006 Tim McGraw and Faith Hill Soul2Soul II Tour [59] October 6, 2006 Elton John The Captain and the Kid Tour [60] 2007 April 14 Christina Aguilera Back to Basics Tour [61] November 14, 2007 Bruce Springsteen Magic Tour [62] 2008 January 4 Miley Cyrus/Hannah Montana Best of Both Worlds Tour [63] March 17 Celtic Woman A New Journey Tour April 30, 2008 Van Halen Van Halen 2007–2008 North American Tour [64] November 21, 2008 Eagles Long Road Out of Eden Tour [65] 2009 May 19, 2009 Bruce Springsteen Working on a Dream Tour [66] October 1 Taylor Swift Fearless Tour Gloriana, Kellie Pickler December 13 Kiss Alive 35 World Tour Buckcherry 2010s Entertainment events at the Civic Arena Dates Artist Tour Supporting acts Attendance Notes Reference 2010 March 4, 2010 Black Eyed Peas The E.N.D. World Tour [67] References

Thomasthedarkenguine @Valereee: 18:34, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

@Valereee: Here's a list of shows so far.

 Done * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 22:53, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

On second thought,  Not done - this table still includes content not supported by the source - the source says nothing about The E.N.D. World Tour for instance. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 18:24, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

Well maybe add the ones where the source says it instead of adding then deleting it, it felt like I was being teased which I don't appreciate. Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 23:11, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

If you would like to request for the table to be added, you must only submit the content in that request that the source supports - we should not be removing content for you if you knowingly are submitting content that the source does not support. Please remove the content not supported by the source and resubmit your request Brendan ❯❯❯ Talk 05:27, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

Ok but I have looked at the source and everything on the list is actually listed. The Black Eyed Peas show is actually listed on that list towards the end.

@Pppery: Did you look at the list provided and if you did maybe look again, I looked at the list and the show you said wasn't listed on the source was on there. Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 17:15, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

The source says that the 2010 event happened. It says nothing about it being part of The E.N.D. World Tour. I'm not interested in continuing this back and forth any further. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 18:51, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

 Procedural decline as the block has been exteneded to a site block, and leaving this matter open for longer might be an editor waste of time. Any editor with rights to edit this page is welcome to fulfill this request if they feel strongly about it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Awesome Aasim (talk • contribs)