Talk:List of earliest coeducational colleges and universities in the United States

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This list is woefully inadequate.96.232.177.48 (talk) 18:08, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Article title

Consider using "coeducational" instead of "mixed-sex" since this is the predominant term in the United States. MMedit (talk) 22:49, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

Cumberland College - thoughts

Cumberland College has been added to the list by another editor as the first coeducational institution of higher learning in the United States. The cited support for this is found in the books of Matthew Gore. Gore's 2010 book A Brief History of Cumberland College is available on Google Books here: [1]. The book indeed states (on page 20-21): "The first three women admitted as students to Cumberland College, and thus to any American coeducational educational institution, were Ann Harpending in 1826 and the sisters Mary and Melinda Barnett in 1827."

This is very notable! I cannot, however, find support anywhere else, including in this transcribed 1876 history written by a professor who arrived at Cumberland in 1830 [2], nor in this transcribed 1899 history[3] (see Chapter XXII). Neither history references female students. On the other hand, they note that upon establishment, "[s]ix neat brick rooms were erected for the accommodation of students, each large enough for four young men."[4] And "[e]very student was required to board at the refectory and sleep in the college dormitories."[5]

Moreover, the 19th century histories emphasize that the college was founded on the principle that manual labor was required of all students. "Many of the Southern boys, reared where slaves did all the work, met the labor requirements with bad grace, but there were no exemptions."[6] This would make it all the more remarkable if female students were part of the class. (There's also no mention anywhere of alternatives for female students, such as the Home Economics line of studying soon to be established in the Land Grant Colleges as an alternative to farming.)

The first class at Cumberland was apparently six students in 1826. By 1830, the institution had increased to 125 students, including preparatory classes. The two graduates from the college in 1830 were both male (Cornelius G. McPherson, and James P. Barnett).[7] Gore states that there is no evidence of any female student ever graduating. Gore's research seems quite thorough, but were the three female students perhaps at the preparatory level rather than the collegiate level? Or were they in fact the first coeducational female college students in the U.S., despite the decades of thought that Oberlin was first... Thoughts? —Kgwo1972 (talk) 21:00, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

A bit more on-line research reveals that Ann Harpending (later Dudley), born in Princeton, Kentucky (home to Cumberland) was seven years old in 1826, when enrolled at Cumberland. So she was not a college student, and therefore irrelevant for purposes of this list of coeducational colleges. (Coeducation below the college level is discussed here: Mixed-sex_education#Primary_and_secondary_schools.) Further research may show that Mary and Melinda/Malinda Barnett were likewise not college age, and resolve the issue fully. —Kgwo1972 (talk) 18:57, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

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Problems with Bates College

There are Bates-boosters masterfully pushing how Bates was oldest or second-oldest co-educational college in the US, but better references are needed, and explanations why lists like this one don't even mention Bates in the Top 10.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 11:10, 16 June 2016 (UTC) Nor is Bates mentioned on this list (which is based on the CollegeStats data.) By changing the parameters of the list around -- that Bates was the second oldest in the Eastern United States -- (and the definition of what constituted 'east' may have been different in the 19th century -- east of the Appalachian Mountains? east of -- what? Looks like an effort at Bates-boosterism. At least, more colleges that should be added to the list, and better sources found.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 11:18, 16 June 2016 (UTC) There are signs that there are better sources like this on suggesting that after about 1835, there was an impetus to include women in higher education which was gathering before the Civil War, and happened continuously and really took off in the 1960s+.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 11:21, 16 June 2016 (UTC) And the claim that Bates College is "... the oldest continuously operating coed university in the world" is puffery.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 11:22, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

No one is bolstering Bates. Your constant inflation of reality never ceases to amaze me or other editors. For your information "Eastern United States" is a specific geographic region, and the statement is referring to the 21st century definition as is painfully obvious. This is an incomplete list, many editors add to the list with reliable sources. Happy editing. Wentworth Washington (talk) 16:00, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

It's not bolstering. It's boosterism. And what is meant by "inflation of reality"? What has been happening is that the list is incomplete, and Bates-boosters have been using the second placement here, on this page, to make a case that Bates was the "second oldest coeducational college" on the Bates page. Bates wasn't second oldest.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 16:12, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

Still have zero idea what you're talking about. There are multiple sources saying that Bates was founded in 1855 as a coeducational university. Thus it is on this list where it should be.' I don't understand the problem. Wentworth Washington (talk) 19:02, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

Great number of colleges removed

When the formatting of this page was changed, a great number of sourced colleges were improperly removed. As compared to the list before June 2016, the current page is incomplete. If some other editor cannot add the missing colleges back, I will try to do so when I have time. Some of the stricken colleges are listed below. --Kgwo1972 (talk) 17:21, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

1827 Cumberland College (dubious)

1830 Mississippi College

1844 Hillsdale College

1845 Franklin College (co-ed secondary-level classes began in 1842 at "Indiana Baptist Manual Labor Institute"; chartered as Franklin College in 1845)

1849 New-York Central College (disestablished 1860)

1849 Otterbein University

1852 Westminster College

1853 Antioch College

1853 Lawrence University

1853 Willamette University

1854 Muskingum University

1854 Pacific University

1854 Urbana University

1856 Baldwin University (now Baldwin Wallace University)

1862 Baker University

1863 Kansas State University

Yes when I reformatted the chart, I removed some schools ranging from years 1827 - 1863 as there were no reliable citations indicating they were founded as coeducational institutions at the dates given. I can take another look when I have time on their inclusion but I haven't found anything to say that they were founded when they were and that they were coeducational. Wentworth Washington (talk) 18:59, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

A more likely explanation is that the article got rejiggered to make Bates College by a Bates booster look as if it was the second college in the US to be coeducational when, in fact, there were many other colleges that came before Bates. Maybe it should be returned to its previous pre-Bates-in-second-place state?--Tomwsulcer (talk) 19:35, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

An even more likely explanation could be that none of the schools including some that came after Bates were removed due to no citations. Stop log hopping and accusing editors of conflict of interest when there is clearly none. Wentworth Washington (talk) 19:38, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

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