Talk:List of dual place names in New Zealand

DYK

It's currently in the queue as the lead hook. Cool! Schwede66 10:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

It's interesting that Aoraki / Mount Cook got slightly more views (1.6K) on the day than this list did (1.5K). Iwi got almost as many (1.4K), although that has a higher base level of views. --Avenue (talk) 08:27, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Dual name

Is Maungarei an official dual named location? It doesn't appear in this list, it's Wikipedia article is under the Maori name, but the article's lead paragraph seems to imply dual naming? -- Chuq (talk) 06:00, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

@Chuq: Yes. According to the New Zealand Gazetteer of place names it does have a dual name, so I've added it to this list Herewhy (talk) 02:48, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

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List of dual names table is big and incomplete

I've just had a quick scan of NZ Place Names, and this has around 400 places with official name status. Of this count, 169 use a space slashed dual name (e.g. Haupapa / Tasman Glacier), 150 don't have a space slash (e.g. Estuary of the Heathcote and Avon Rivers/Ihutai), and 81 use parentheses (e.g. "Rerewhakaupoko Island (Solomon)" in Southland). The current table in this Wikipedia article has 188 places, not including the three examples provided in the previous paragraph. Is this table worth maintaining? Note that these names are frequently updated, often several times a year. Should this table be trimmed down to places that have a Wikipedia article, and not just any reef or hill? +mt 02:54, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

@mwtoews Is this table worth maintaining? The consensus of my user group is yes; hence, I’ve reviewed the New Zealand Gazetteer of place names (held at https://www.linz.govt.nz/regulatory/place-names/find-place-name/new-zealand-gazetteer-place-names), and added as many missing ones, with a Wikipedia article, as I could find. At this stage, I have not trimmed out places without an article. There aren’t many of those left now, because I located and wiki-link’d quite a few Herewhy (talk) 03:46, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

In the gazeteer's map view, the slash is spaced in Estuary of the Heathcote and Avon Rivers / Ihutai. Perhaps they're just not very careful or consistent. Dicklyon (talk) 06:36, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

Fiord not Fjord

I'm reverting the change to Fjord. The corrrect spelling in New Zealand English is Fiord. ShakyIsles (talk) 23:48, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

Jan update from gazetteer

Kia ora koutou,

Just a quick message to give a heads up on my progress to update the list and make it more complete - today's task was adding all of the dual place names which use a slash (according to the full gazetteer data CSV file, available on the gazetteer website). There are still a few I didn't do for reasons I'll go into below, and there are still the sizeable number which use parentheses instead to check through and add if needed. Of those which I didn't add, most of them are either undersea features or 'manmade' features (eg. National Parks or conservation areas) - of which we already have a fair few in the list. I'm wondering if it might be worth splitting these off into separate sections just to make the distinction a bit clearer, but wanted to gauge opinions first before going ahead with something like that. Turnagra (talk) 10:38, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

Lead sentence

I have adjusted this because what was there is not ideal. It needs to be spelled out that the Maori part is in the Maori language, not an anglised version of the Maori word. Adding "...since European settlement" is irrelevant and point making. The English language part is in the English language. How it got to be used is not relevant here, just as how the Maori word got to be used is also not relevant here. Additionally, it needs to be made clear that the two words refer to the same thing. Christchurch refers to the 1850 town/city, as does the Maori part. That means the Maori part is not the swampy bit of land of 200 years ago that the Maori word used to mean, or can mean now but in a different context. I think a large part of the confusion and endless debate about NZ place names is because we all mean something slightly different when we talk about them. That to me means we must be very clear about what we mean when using certain words. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 08:21, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

This is such a weird hill to die on, not least of all because there isn't even a hill in the first place. Roger, fundamentally, there is no difference between a Māori name and an "anglicised version" of a Māori name in this context - there are some, like Te Tihi-o-Maru becoming Timaru, but that's not what we're talking about here. Christchurch is also a poor example, given that it's not a dual name in the same context as this list (FYI, the "Māori part" is Ōtautahi). The whole name is in the English language because that's how English works, and if you want to look at "irrelevant and point making" I'd suggest rereading your own comment. Turnagra (talk) 19:03, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for bringing a smile to my face as I sit with my mocca staring out at the mild mist lifting from the hillless Ōtautahi. Also removed my own typo spelling error above and wondering if hillless is also misspelt or is a genuine triple letter word. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 19:56, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Template sections

Thank you Turnagra, I was about to revert back myself. I think there is room to elaborate on distinction this at the start. I also think it would be useful to use the terms 'official duel name' and 'unofficial duel name'. There should be some recognition of the common name though. A person reading this would likely assume the unofficial name and the common names are the same. The term 'unofficial name' is usually used to refer to a places common name. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 07:17, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

What do you mean by using those terms? Official dual names have their own section, there is a different section further down for dual names which are unofficial but recorded by the NZGB further down.

Incidentally, I've been thinking of updating the table significantly for a while now - least of all because the regions which the NZGB uses are atrocious and think anything south of Taupō is Wellington and anything north is Auckland. One of the changes I was looking at making was removing the "former name" column altogether - the list is specifically about dual names and readers can see other names by clicking through to the article. I don't think a common name section will ever be able to establish consensus if the past 50,000 move requests are anything to go by, and so any move to incorporate that into this article is just asking for trouble. Turnagra (talk) 07:27, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

There are two sections. The top one says 'official dual names' and the bottom one says 'unofficial dual names'. This is confusing because the second list is officially unofficial. It would be clearer if the second list used 'recognised unoffial names'. An unofficial name is generally used to mean one in common usage. (if it is also the official name that is usually made clear), but that is not the meaning used in the lower section here. Here, an unofficial dual name means one recognised by NZGB that is used by at least two publications. Your idea to remove the column of former names would be an improvement. However, I still think there should be something to clarify that all these dual names are not the ones commonly used by the public. If not handled well, there is scope for edit wars, I agree. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 08:16, 7 January 2023 (UTC)