Talk:List of cultural assets of Algeria

List broken?

@Bachounda: it looks like this list is not functioning well, the links to the provinces are not working. Could you take a look? effeietsanders 00:01, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

@Bachounda and Effeietsanders: if this query relates to the links up top, they go to the section of this article that relates to historic registy items in that provice. Please feel free to make any improvements to that page that you feel would benefit it. It is a rescued translation, and I have done about as much for it as I can, or can stand to think about for a while. I have not flagged it as a translation from the French because I meant to do a final check once I had had a break from the page, and was also pondering whether an Arabic speaker could help it, as I suspect (but don't actually know) that the French was translated from Arabic. My comments in the section below may also be of interest. In any event, thank yoou for working on this article, feel free to adopt it ;) Elinruby (talk) 02:37, 27 September 2019 (UTC).

In fact, I created the page first in Arabic, then in French, and I finally worked on the page in English last year. it was a transfer of information from both pages (ar and fr). I think the page needs more improvement than now, when I have time, I would do it with pleasure. --Bachounda (talk) 19:01, 27 September 2019 (UTC)

The markup syntax is a little different between French and English, and the tables broke. If you know the material feel free to change anything I did, as my knowledge of Algeria is pretty much limited to these articles and some graduate work on Albert Camus. I did my best but couldn't be happier to have see this page getting worked on. Thank you very much. Elinruby (talk) 02:43, 28 September 2019 (UTC)

Missing heritage sites!

As part of the Wiki Loves Monuments contest, I thought I'd participate with a few snaps of Notre Dame d'Afrique, but it seems as if it isn't considered a cultural heritage site on this list. The list refers to the Algerian Ministry of Culture, but the reference has long been replaced by another list that is more extensive and actually contains quite a good number of heritage sites, including the missing Notre Dame d'Afrique. I will try to update this list with the new one as soon as possible. RubyALG (talk) 22:29, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

@RubyALG: I came in here to congratulate whoever changed the title to "cultural heritage sites". If it was you, thank you. The title still isn't quite right, since the list includes objects, but it's better than "monuments". I simply could not think of a better translation. I did quite a bit of work on this since it was flagged as badly mangled machine translation, correctly, since there were many problems including huge formatting problems. I am still thoroughly sick of the topic so please feel free to improve it as much as you have time for! My suggestion, if you have time or know people in Algeria, would be to get some pictures in there. I did a fairly thorough search on Wikimedia Commons, so if you know how the the next step would be to do a google search for images with a Creative Commons licensing. It is also possible that the recent campaign caused some more images to be uploaded. I got involved through a group that rescues bad translations, but have only the most superficial knowledge of Algeria, and am only in this page because I feel that English Wikipedia needs more information on Algeria, and bad French translations tend to only get fixed, at least through that portal, if I do them. ANyway, thanks for any work you have done on the article; please feel free to adopt it as I am currently preoccupied with a different huge mess ;) Oh, PS, I believe the page is based on a historic regisry (thus the numbers) but I have not attempted to verify how complete or up to date the list was. It is about as good as I ca get it based on the corresponding fr.wikipedia page, is what it is. I left the flag for help needed bacause it still isnt wonderful, but at least it now mostly makes sense Elinruby (talk) 02:30, 27 September 2019 (UTC)

@Elinruby: Nope, it wasn't me, but I intend to adopt this article and improve it over time. The Ministry of Culture has an updated list of sites that contains over 1000 sites, so I was wondering if it would be better to adopt the same style as the list on the Arabic Wikipedia, where this list would contain lists of the cultural heritage sites by province, and those lists having the actual heritage sites mentioned in them and eventually having articles on each of the sites. Also, regarding the mention of objects, the Algerian Ministry of Culture actually classes this whole list as a list of "tangible cultural heritage" rather than a list of cultural heritage sites. Perhaps it would be better to name it in the same way? I don't know... I'm not new to Wikipedia but I'm just getting started with seriously contributing and I would hate to make a mistake, I would appreciate your advice since you've worked on the topic before. Thanks :) RubyALG (talk) 15:33, 27 September 2019 (UTC).

Dear @Elinruby: thank you for all your work to improve this page, thank you for supporting us to increase the algerian content i'm from Algeria, i lanched Wiki loves monuments in algeria and other contests only because the content about algeria is very poor and this contest can give us a litte contribution to present this large region of the world, dont forget it's a greatest country in Africa after division of sudan.

@RubyALG: i read that you know a list of 1000 sites, i know too that the ministery has enlarged the list, and there are principaly two kind of list : national protected sites and provential protected sites, unfortunaitly i have not the entire ressources to collect this list it need us to travel to all 48 algerian provinces add to this the easy way is not offerable, I cant find it on the internet, just little insinuations; If you can have this list it's a great plus for algerian content. bests --Bachounda (talk) 19:33, 27 September 2019 (UTC)

@Bachounda: I actually found the list on the Ministry’s website in French, I will do my best to work on adding the missing sites to this article and then work on the Arabic as well. I’m happy to adopt it for improvement over the next few weeks, plus I’m thinking of creating an article for each of the sites, especially the most prominent ones. Regarding photos, I have an idea for sourcing some, I will look into it and get back to you soon. RubyALG (talk) 19:52, 27 September 2019 (UTC)

@RubyALG: Wow! awsome! This is an excellent update, i think that the list has recently been added to the ministry's website because I visit it often. the update is very interesting, it contains the references of protection, the official Algerian newspaper which is better than the old list. For images, it's easy to do this at the next contest. Wiki loves Algeria, thanks --Bachounda (talk) 20:48, 27 September 2019 (UTC)

Absolutely awesome. If yoou guys are interested there are also a whole bunch of articles about the French Foreign Legion and several others about various invasions, emirs and battles in Algeria. I have worked on these somewhat but pretty much all my comments above apply to them as well. I'll try to get you guys some specific links, but you can find the ones I am talking about by seaching on en.wikipedia for PNT, then chosing the Pages needing translation link at the top of the list of results. There is also a group working on Tunisian souks, if that is of interest. Elinruby (talk) 02:38, 28 September 2019 (UTC).

@Elinruby: Very interesting articles, for somme pages it's a discovery for me, for others it need to find the true name of page; otherwise tomorow we have an event translation "hakathon" in algeria, i will select one of them for translation, many thanks for sharing --Bachounda (talk) 08:03, 28 September 2019 (UTC)

Please feel free to share the list at the hackathon. Also please discourage wholesale use of machine translation. It is a great tool when judiciously used -- I use it myself -- but cannot be relied on, as you see. A Sharif is not a sheriff. Please feel free to ask me any questions you may have about this, or Wikipedia policies in general. @Mathglot: may also be hrlpful. Elinruby (talk) 19:50, 28 September 2019 (UTC)

I'm willing to help if there are specific issues about policies and guidelines on en-wiki, and also to help translate French articles. By the way, everyone here who's interested in the topic should consider joining WP:WikiProject Algeria, which seems pretty dormant at the moment; the group here might be a kernel for reviving that group. In particular, conversations like this one that are about Algerian topics and broader than just one article, should either happen there, or at a minimum, be linked from there.

Secondly: offsite photo collections can be searched for images of Algerian monuments, and the users contacted for permissions to use on Wikipedia. I'm most familiar with Flickr, where users can set different licenses, some of which may already be compatible with Wikipedia without requesting special permission; but I bet most users would be flattered to be asked about their photos, and we could get plenty of images. See for example:

• sites of Algeria
• Algerian monuments; monuments Algeriens
• ruines d'Algerie; Algerian ruins
• tourisme en Algerie; Algerian tourism
• sites touristiques Algerie; Algerian tourist sites

You can, of course, target areas where more images are needed:

• Batna
• Tlemcen
• Notre Dame d'Afrique

Note also the existence of Template {{Flickr free|keywords}} which allows you to search for Flickr images that already have the proper license, and can be uploaded to Commons immediately.

Flickr is just the platform I know best, but there are many competing image sites that could be mined this way, too. See also Commons:Picture requests. Hope this helps, @Bachounda, Elinruby, and RubyALG: Mathglot (talk) 19:20, 30 September 2019 (UTC)

Algerian history articles that need help but may be useful as starting points

These have a lot of problems with tone and bad machine translation. See comments on each

User بلهواري_محمد_فيصل (talk · contribs) has been creating pages translated mostly from French Wikipedia, but also from Arabic:

• Battle of Bouzegza – Initial language was French.

made a start on the lede, then realized the wikilinks are wildly inappropriate, ie a town in Italy and someone with the same name who died a hundred years before this battle. Everything this editor did should be carefully checked.Elinruby (talk) 14:45, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

• Battle of Kalaa of the Beni Abbes (1553) – Initial language was French.
• Battle of Sig – Initial language was French.

Did a first pass based on French original, which I did need to understand it. Looked a couple of the others on the list, which didn't seem to need as much. These are battles that look important in French conquest of Algeria.

Found a wikilink to a town in Bengal. See above; will need careful checking. Elinruby (talk) 15:25, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

• Djidjelli Expedition (1664) – Initial language was French.

Did some cleanup of some mysterious stuff and plain lazy translation, so what is there is readable, but the French article is considerably longer and the article should probably be fleshed out. Elinruby (talk) 11:44, 26 November 2017 (UTC)

• Emirate of Abdelkader – Initial language was French. Also exists in Italian, and Arabic.

very heavy going, doing major surgery Elinruby (talk) 21:32, 20 February 2018 (UTC) Big chunks of this bear no relationship to the French article, in particular the parts about the roots of the emirate in sharia law and the wise provisions of the emir, etc. Current en text possibly be kind of readable at this point, still needs serious editing for tone and references. Should be checked for accuracy against the ar wikipedia where applicable. I have had enough Algeria for a while now, but that is the status of this Elinruby (talk) 09:05, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

• Emirate of Tlemcen – Initial language was French.

close to completely translated, should be checked as it is still fairly mysterious. May be able to move explanatory material in from linked articles Elinruby (talk) 15:47, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

• Kalâa of Ait Abbas – Initial language was French. Also exists in Arabic.
• Operation Blue Bird – Initial language was French.
• Sultanate of Tuggurt (Touggourt) – Initial language was French. A Spanish version exists as well.

Grrrr Sharif confused with sheriff slowing right down to check everything Elinruby (talk) 12:26, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

This is now a good translation of a bad article...leave it for now as I still need to tag it for translation and some of the other articles on this list are related and possibly can be used to improve the thing

• Touggourt Expedition (1552) – Initial language was French.

This user was indefinitely blocked on 19 October. Mathglot (talk) 20:53, 20 October 2017 (UTC)

Just thought I would mention that while the engish is iffy these are all important topics in Algerian history on which we should have an article Elinruby (talk) 16:55, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

translation issues portal

Wikipedia:Pages_needing_translation_into_English

list above is from this page. Please feel free to ask questions there.

French Foreign Legion

• Talk:Origins_of_the_French_Foreign_Legion#Rewrite_from_scratch
• Wikipedia:Pages_needing_translation_into_English/Articles_by_user/OJOM

holler if you have questions Elinruby (talk) 03:11, 28 September 2019 (UTC)

Government calls these ""biens culturels"

Epiphany: should be translated as "assets" Elinruby (talk) 07:24, 2 October 2019 (UTC)

this was a related discussion at the PNT page:

@RubyALG: hurray and welcome. I did a little wikignoming over there last night, fixing some overlooked French and adding an image and some wikilinks. Just wanted to mention that if the actual official name of the list says "biens culturels" then "cultural assets" would be a better translation.Elinruby (talk) 18:27, 2 October 2019 (UTC) @Elinruby: Cultural assets definitely sounds better to me, because the list includes what they are calling "mobile cultural assets"... my French isn't very strong, so I wasn't sure how to translate "biens", but I agree with you that assets is the best option, since it covers various types of cultural heritage. Maybe "List of cultural heritage assets" would be better? I'll work on this a bit tonight, hopefully, if I get some time as I still have work to do on the articles we did during our little hackathon earlier this week. Thank you for your help and interest in Algeria! RubyALG (talk) 09:36, 3 October 2019 (UTC) Most or all of this discussion should be moved to Talk:List of monuments of Algeria where editors concerned with the topic can find it. Mathglot (talk) 09:55, 3 October 2019 (UTC) @RubyALG:My French is very fluent, near native fluency, and I can assure you that it is pretty much an exact translation. My only question is whether that is in fact the official French name of the registry. I will copy this discussion to to the talk page of the article as Mathglot suggests. Elinruby (talk) 18:19, 5 October 2019 (UTC)

I should probably add that an EXACT translation would be "goods", but this has overtones of "merchandise" in English, so 'assets" is better. It is frequently used to describe stocks, bank accounts and the like, so it means something valuable, without implying that they are for sale. Elinruby (talk) 18:26, 5 October 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for moving the discussion here, this will definitely help. I think assets is a good translation, given what you've described. And yes, it definitely seems that the government calls them that, they still don't have an Arabic version of the list, so I'm guessing we should just go with what they have in French and change this to "cultural assets". Let me know what you think RubyALG (talk) 19:04, 5 October 2019 (UTC)