Talk:List of contract bridge people

Bridge people

To advance this article/section (appropriately hived out of the Contract bridge article), it is proposed that:

1. "... we should let Wikipedia decide by including all bridge people (not just players but writers, teachers etc even fictional characters) who are significnat enough to merit their own article. This way we wouldn't have to debate each inclusion or exclusion - if a separate article exists or is promised then the person is included here... it can hardly be wrong since wikipedia methods will rule whether the article in question is allowable. ... To justify inclusion in the 'Significant bridge people' section there must be a separate wikipedia article in existence or about to be written." [From the Contract bridge talk archives: Abtract 16:48, 2 October 2006 (UTC)]
2. The Contract bridge "article is not the place to list all the notable bridge players which satisfy WP criteria — there is a couple of hundreds world champions, renowned theoretists or prominent writers. If we cannot agree who is notable enough to earn a place here, the only alternative is to delete the list altogether, not to include every bridge player we write about. I wouldn't particularly oppose a List of bridge players article, but it is already covered by Category:Bridge players] and there's a redlink list on WP:WPCB#Tasks." [From the Contract bridge talk archives: Duja 07:36, 3 October 2006 (UTC)]
3. This article/section not become just a simple list, like that provided by means of Category:Bridge players but rather an annotated set of lists which provide context for the identification of sets of names from verifiable sources. The names are simply candidates for consideration by Wiki editors (see item 1 above). It is probable this article and its sections and subsections will morph further but in the meantime, efforts will focus on assembling draft material and articles which can subsequently be knitted together under Wiki rigour. This guided bottom-up approach suits the Wiki culture better than a command-and-control top-down approach.
4. Wiki bio articles be written as driven by the interests of readers and editors of this article/section. My own initial efforts will focus on the ACBL Hall of Fame members. Please edit my contribs mercilessly. Newwhist (talk) 15:45, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
5. At the initial stage, we not get hung up on semantics (like "important" versus "significant" versus "notable"). The appropriate adjective can be determined (or left out) as this article/section matures.
6. There be a semi-standard table of contents for a bridge bio, starting with:
   1. brief main section on the person, picture
   2. Playing record (with empasis on: international and national wins and runner-ups; awards, honours and recognition)
   3. Publications
   4. Game contributions
   5. See also
   6. References
7. This remain fun.

Newwhist (talk) 15:45, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

I have no problem with most of your points but I would simply reiterate my point, made a couple of years ago and repeated by you above, that if a bridge person is significant enough to warrant their own article in wp they should certainly be included in our list(s). I particularly like your idea (if I understand you correctly) that the list(s) could be used as a prompt for people who should have articles but currently haven't. There used to be a bridge project but nothing much came of it ... maybe you (Newwhist) would like to resuscitate it? Either way keep up the good work ... and have fun. Abtract (talk) 10:16, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

World Class

This section seems to be using the opinion of a single non notable source. There is significant contraversy on this list. Where is Terrence Reese for example... Tetron76 (talk) 16:13, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments but IMHO there is no contraversy on the list insofar as the list is the list in the book (including the categorization). It is true that some (myself included) may disagree with the inclusion of some of the individuals and prefer to add others but they did not write the book. Just including living people and excluding all dead bridge players and/or writers may of itself be controversial insofar as anyone trying to list all notable bridge people is concerned but this is not what Smith is doing. World Class is, as its subtitle states, a book of "conversations with the bridge masters" and each chapter is written in the first person based upon face-to-face interviews with each subject. Reese died in 1996 and the book was published in 1999 and so, I presume, no conversation could be held at the time of writing. In the book's introduction, Gabriel Chagas who has won the Triple crown of bridge and may therefore have some credibility, states that the people included in Smith's book are "World Class" and of the "Bridge Aristocracy". As to the notability of Marc Smith himself, I pose that we should depend on whether his current main article remains and is improved or is ultimately deleted. If all this proves correct, then we have at least one notable proponent of the listings (Chagas) and perhaps two - time will tell. Newwhist (talk) 14:53, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Part of my problem is the layout of the whole list is convoluted. I suppose the fix might come by changing the subtitle title to biographies by Marc Smith and a mention to the list being living players and writers. By removing world class from the heading it removes the POV problem of whether he is qualified to make this evaluation.Tetron76 (talk) 16:19, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

World Class is the title of the book as is The Bridge Immortals. Newwhist (talk) 13:55, 28 March 2011 (UTC) I do not see that any NPOV violation remains after recent changes to the section headings. Are you still challenging that Marc Smith is qualified to write a book on bridge personalities (which he did)? Please explain your concern further if you still have it. Newwhist (talk) 15:00, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

The restructuring makes it much clearer the intention of the section so I am removing the tag.Tetron76 (talk) 08:58, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Hall of Fame, Collected biographies, Videos

I have revised subheadings and prefaces that frame the three lists in the two sections (collected) Biographies and ACBL video interviews. These revisions clarify the nature of the lists. There seems to be some miscount in my description of the ACBL interview subjects but I don't find it in a second pass.

Tetron76: Does this meet your objection?

Following link WBF Hall of Fame, I visit Edgar Kaplan only.

The ACBL Hall of Fame membership list is cramped. Does the alphabetical list need induction years? It might be better in four columns without the top or right border. Can the list by induction year by placed above the right-hand corner of the table, as may be done with a page Table of Contents ({TOCright}}? That chronological list doesn't need links. --P64 (talk) 23:12, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

I have reduced the number of columns in the Hall of Fame listing and it looks better, I think. I also think the induction year shown stay because it lets you cross reference to the collapsable table to find out who else was inducted that year. Newwhist (talk) 12:12, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

ACBL lists the new members 2013 (two) and 2014 (four). ACBL HOF by year

The numerical ID and accompanying citations at www.acbl.org may have been abandoned after 2013, Max Hardy 114 and Gail Greenberg 115. The new displays at web5.acbl.org have identical contents but 'Lastname, firstname' title, large font, and navigation framework. --I daresay, having examined only Gail Greenberg.[1] Evidently one can be inducted by the Hall of Fame without revealing a birthyear.

--P64 (talk) 19:45, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

Famous and fictional bridge players

While the less important area of the list, I have been looking for refs to confirm people who play bridge. I was trying to stick to non passing refs for people.Tetron76 (talk) 15:02, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Sarah Battle in Charles Lamb, "Mrs. Battle's Opinions on Whist", Essays of Elia, 1823. (at Google Books)

that's whist, not "bridge" of any type. perhaps it identifies Charles Lamb as a famous player.

FYI --P64 (talk) 17:35, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

Winston Churchill

I have become unsure whether Winston Churchill was a bridge player. It is repeated on many sites but I think most of them rely on the EBU site [2] or vice versa. i.e. [3] which might well be based purely upon wikipedia. My concern is Winston_Churchill_(grandson) played bridge. I can find only one mention of WC playing bridge in a good? source: [4] and for someone that famous it raises a question mark for me,Tetron76 (talk) 14:58, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

The NYT bridge column by Alan Truscott is generally reliable. His calling Winston Churchill a "very poor performer" suggests to me first- or second-hand knowledge, not blind repetition of a listing. His coupling Churchill with Ghandi and Eisenhower as candidate most-known players implies Winston Sr, not Winston Jr. Do you suppose confusion by Truscott?

I have tried to improve the listings of Churchill (slightly) and Keaton without understanding why they differ in format from the others. --P64 (talk) 21:24, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Tables and lines

I don't understand the horizontal lines in tables, neither the coding nor the design. Also I wonder whether there is some inconsistent rendering. Eg, here and now I get no line between 1964 and 1965 inductions. In the EBL Medals table, I get no lines separating the sixth to ninth entries in each column. --P64 (talk) 21:34, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

I do not have any similar problems with these specific tables, although in the past, I do recall this experience on a random basis with tables in other articles. It may be a simple rendering problem - I am not a computer type so I do not know what would cause this. Try to reload the page, and/or scroll the page up and down to see if re-rendering gives a different result. Newwhist (talk) 01:20, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for re-sectioning. I heartily approve using more descriptive headings on the talk page.

I'll take a look re what I have been doing wrong regarding headings format. --P64 (talk) 16:56, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

EBL and WBF medals

I have much revised in small ways the section People recognized by organizations (perhaps all "minor edits"?). Why are the EBL medals featured in a table, not the WBF medals? I have made the EBL and WBF sections roughly parallel without affecting that point. --P64 (talk) 21:34, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

I can think of no reason. Go ahead and make them consistent. What is the criteria for all the EBL and WBF awards? This should be added but I am not familiar with the subject. Newwhist (talk)

Sally Brock

Yes, Sally Brock was originally Sally Sowter, before marrying first Mark Horton and subsequently Raymond Brock. JH (talk page) 08:04, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Was she related to Tony Sowter? Newwhist (talk) 11:39, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

I think they're brother and sister. JH (talk page) 17:13, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Tony Sowter and she were married; they divorced in 1981. Sally then married Mark Horton in December 1981; they divorced in 1991. She married Raymond Brock in 1993; he died in early 2008. In July 2011 she indicated that her life partner was Barry Meyers. See EBU biography Newwhist (talk) 22:34, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

Authorities cited here

Authorities, authors, editors, ...

• Audrey Grant

English Bridge Union: Biographies aka Top Players, Captains & Coaches

• Victor Mollo; "Victor Mollo" at EBU
• Marc Smith (bridge)
• "Peter Hasenson" at EBU

Name forms in lists

Does the list of ACBL Hall of Fame members consistently use the name forms and alphabetization in the source? That is, does it reproduce the source listings? Is there a policy or recommendation implied, to retain institutional listings and pipe them to biography titles? I suggest the opposite: list our preferred name forms, which are recommended biography titles in case of redlinks.

Do the other lists follow their sources Victor Mollo & Co. in the way I have described? --P64 (talk) 00:14, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Names and aliases

Cross reference: This hour I have posted more generally at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Contract bridge/Notable people criteria#Names and aliases.

Should these lists of people use the aliases used by the institution (ACBL Hall of Fame) or author (Marc Smith)? Or should we use actual or recommended biography titles? For example, should we use "Robert Hamman" in some listings on this page? --P64 (talk) 21:59, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

I would use the name by which the person is generally known, which I believe is in accordance with Wikipedia guidelines. So it would be "Bobby Hamman". JH (talk page) 08:36, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. It's Bob Hamman, whose partner for nearly thirty years was Bobby Wolff.

FYI, According to my own edit summaries, which may be incomplete, I have revised only three ACBLHOF listings in this respect.

• Nickell=>Nick; Frey=>Richard L.; Kennedy=>Betty Ann (1 September)

--P64 (talk) 13:47, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Today I made necessary improvements in the names or links for most influential people (Cohen, Murray, Frey; look out for Root in the top 13). Then I edited the Hall of Fame members code to read as follows:

Mike|Becker; Ira|Corn; Edith Kemp|Freilich; Eddie|Kantar; Ed|Manfield; Lew|Mathe; Nick|Nickell; Bill|Root|Bill Root (bridge); Al|Roth|Alvin Roth; Al|Sobel; Sam|Stayman|Samuel Stayman; Bobby|Wolff ;

Only Root is necessary to fix a redlink false negative. Wolff is a change to the current title of our biography. Kantar, Roth, Stayman signify that I advocate moving our biographies (with an administrator's help to reverse the Kantar redirect). The others are available (current redlinks), they fit common usage, and I advocate their use (Nick Nickell is widely used here; Al Sobel matches the most influential people).

At least three more listings should be revised, i think: Victor (Vic) Mitchell; James (Jim) Jacoby; Thomas Sanders. Current targets are Victor Mitchell (bridge); James Jacoby; Thomas Sanders. --P64 (talk) 17:36, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Hall of Fame table

Here is the code for two typical rows of the table (select "show"), one where no disambiguation is needed and the listed name matches the title of any biography here (none for Becker), and the next row where disambiguation is needed and there is a biography here.

|-

|align="center"|2006||{{sortname|Michael|Becker}} ||Open||align="center"|[http://www.acbl.org/about/hall-of-fame/biography.php?id=3]

|-

|align="center"|2010||{{sortname| David|Berkowitz|David Berkowitz (bridge)}} ||Open||align="center"|[http://www.acbl.org/about/hall-of-fame/biography.php?id=106]

I have a couple questions, about the name-forms and the sort feature.

(but no time to complete this)--P64 (talk) 19:42, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

ACBL most influential players

Something seems to have gone wrong with the table. I can only see entries 40-52. Also there are two number 40s and two number 51s! JH (talk page) 09:44, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Actually the table is OK. The Bridge Bulletin only announced positions 52 to 40 in their January 2012 issue. The remaining 39 will be announced in further groups of 13 in the February, March and April issues (13 names per issue = 13 cards in each of four hands). I will put a note to that effect on the article. Newwhist (talk) 19:21, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

(repost following edit conflict)

Grudgingly I endorse that pause after the club suit ;–)

My edit summary ce ;–) is a swipe at unhelpful edit summaries. It obscures a substantial revision. Later I'll make use of the 1937 article where it is even more valuable.

As I recall, "number 52" the two of clubs was Paul McCloskey (Pete McCloskey), the man from President Nixon's own party who ran against his re-election in 1972 ... never mind --P64 (talk) 19:25, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

OK, but I still see two players at #40 and two at #51, resulting in 15 names in all rather than 13. JH (talk page) 20:55, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Positions 51 and and 40 are indeed occupied by two people each. The best explanation is devined by reading between the lines of the ACBL article. First it states: "... staff attempted to come up with a list of the 52 most influential personalities...." A couple of sentences later, it titles the list as "the Top 52" which I therefore presume includes literary licence. For position 51, the two "rate as a single entry because they are inextricably linked ... [Nordenson was] inventor of the bidding box .... [Jannersten] helped the device gain acceptance." For position 40, "These two have a joint entry because of the work they have done to convince players that friendly behaviour at the bridge table is in everyone's best interest." Newwhist (talk) 22:05, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

In that case I think that an explanatory footnote is needed. It might also be better to put the two names in a single row of the table rather than give them a row each. JH (talk page) 10:15, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Explanatory note should be added. Go ahead. Putting names in same row would defeat the ability to sort alphabetically. Newwhist (talk) 13:51, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

 Done Newwhist (talk) 15:21, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

Most influential personalities

(link) Today I completed the list by reference to Bridge Bulletin. I compared notations with the ACBL Hall of Fame list, and fixed one discrepancy by marking Zia into the Hall. Another set of eyes should compare the two lists.

I have compared the two lists and found one discrepancy - William McKenney is 3rd most influential but is not in Hall of Fame - notation removed accordingly. Newwhist (talk) 15:52, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

We now have Albert H. Morehead #8 and Albert Morehead #32. That is bad because they are one person. I cannot check Jan or Feb, ranks 27 to 52. --P64 (talk) 19:20, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

The entry of two Moreheads must be an editorial error by ACBL, presumably to be corrected in next edition of magazine in May 2012. I have reviewed entries for positions 27-52 with the magazine articles and find all to be correct. Newwhist (talk) 15:52, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

A May addendum provides a standard but unnumbered blurb for Harold Vanderbilt, with preface by Manley noting the Morehead error and fact that it leaves room for HV. I entered HV at rank #53 (which sorts to the bottom) without change in numbering entries #33-52. My note at #32,53 calls Manley "editor", thinking of the magazine, maybe should be called author. Our complete reference needs revision to include May pp. (oops).

I revised entries #13,17 to provide right-hand whitespace [space following superscript [b] at #13; preceding space is not intended] and to sort the two group "personalities" to the top (ahead of 'baze' in alphabetical order). "Bracketed KO inventor(s)" now links to the Glossary --at #Bracket but we have neither that anchor nor any entry on Bracketed KO. It should be a redlink to fulfill the usual purpose WP:redlink (Glossary needs #Bracket and entry for Bracketed KO). Missing anchors are ignored so it bluelinks to the entire Glossary. --P64 (talk) 18:20, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Completed (strikeout). --P64 (talk) 00:16, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Ortiz-Patino

I thought that he was Swiss rather than English? JH (talk page) 21:45, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

England is listed at the WBF site. See "International record for Ortiz-Patino". World Bridge Federation. Newwhist (talk) 21:58, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Within the scope of this WBF database, his only nationality as a player (or npc) is Switzerland 1964, 1968, and 1972. See the linked "Playing record".

Many people have represented more than one distinct bridge nations, the set of bridge nations is not fixed (eg, England and others have replaced Great Britain), and some bridge nations are not nations.

Example, Pat McDevitt, Ireland (at WBF) emigrated from Ireland to the US (Boston) fifty years ago. He has played for three non-national teams at the WBF level --captained by Kinney, Budd, and DeMartino of New England states Massachusetts, Maine, and Connecticut, with New England teammates I suppose-- but his three-time national play is all for Ireland.

Example, Pierre Zimmermann, Monaco (at WBF) is Swiss, in a sense, but he has represented bridge nations France and Monaco only.

--P64 (talk) 22:27, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes. There are many possible permutations and combinations of nationalities potentially associated with one person - see the lead to Category:Bridge players. Several of these can changes over time. IMHO we should report what is reported, i.e. in this case, Ortiz-Patino is a recipient of a medal from the EBL and their citation says 'England' and so that is what should be recorded. Newwhist (talk) 23:41, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Belatedly returning to this, I've just noticed that there is a Wikipedia article for a Jaime Ortiz-Patino. One would have thought that it would be such a rare name that it was almost certain to be the same guy. I'm going to do a Google search on the name, to see if I can find any hard evidence that they are the same person. JH (talk page) 22:02, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

And they are indeed one and the same.[5] So since he has a Wikipedia article said article ought to be updated, as at present it covers only his golf. JH (talk page) 22:09, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

I will add him to the index template of articles on contract bridge. Newwhist (talk) 23:05, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

Last week I moved that article to Jaime Ortiz-Patiño and expanded it to cover bridge. Also to cover his Publications w r WorldCat, as I would for a bridge writer, altho they all concern golf. --P64 (talk) 16:15, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

Hall of Fame biographies online

ACBL revised its website two weeks ago. Some links are broken including all those to Hall of Fame member biographies.

In the footers of HOF member biographies (eg, Jeff Rubens) those addresses are generated by {ACBLhof} External link templates.

Evidently we need to use the alphabetic ID (rubens-jeff), thus need to revise every use of the template. The numeric ID (63) is generally useless, no longer served by ACBL and barely covered by Internet Archive.

Checked: several acbl.org URL composed with the two IDs [6] [7]; [8] [9]; [10] [11]. Checked: Internet Archive coverage of these pages ACBL HOF directory; list of about/hall-of-fame pages.

I revised template {{ACBLhof}} --minimally, twice. As I write, and as I will sign off today, only Rubens relies on the current version, which takes the alphabetic ID as value of parameter 1. Jeff Rubens#External links

In the table ACBL Hall of Fame (this page), those broken addresses using numeric IDs fill column "Citation link". I presume those should be generated by template {ACBLhof} when its revision is stable.

--P64 (talk) 19:48, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Some of our bridge biographies cover the ACBL von Zedtwitz Award. The vZ Award is merely one sort of ACBL HOF induction, as are the so-called Open Award and Blackwood Award. So we shouldn't list those so-called awards separately from the ACBL Hall of Fame honor. Routinely we would now do so in Honors and Awards subsections of Bridge accomplishments, as we did for David Burnstine until this hour (November version).

Sometimes we cite the Foundation for the Preservation and Advancement of Bridge, von Zedtwitz Award at FPAB (Open and Blackwood awards similarly). This page covers 1996 top 2011 only. I compared the 2002 entries for Carol and Tom Sanders with their biographies as ACBL HOF members at ACBL.org. The texts are identical; only the images and headings differ. For instance,

Sanders, Tommy (b. 1932) at FPAB vZ Award[12]

Sanders, Thomas / 1932 – 2011 at ACBL HOF[13]

The older heading does testify for use name "Tommy" (TKS is 'Tommy' thruout the text). The preface at FPAB vZ Award does provide testimony that may be useful; eg it names an ACBL HOF "Veterans Committee" (cf. American baseball HOF Veterans Committee). The portraits may be useful to mention within references. Offhand I would be inclined to link both editions within one refnote.

--P64 (talk) 19:54, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

TBW and ACBL Hall of Fame

Does anyone have a reference for why The Bridge World stopped its sponsorship of the Hall of Fame? Newwhist (talk) 14:06, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

Not I. Yes, i agree we should have that, along with some original wording. Did they call it a/the/their hall of fame, the Bridge Hall of Fame, etc? Also was it clearly American in scope?

We have biographies for 8 of the 9 early/TBW hall of fame members, missing Sidney Lenz from the second, 1965 class of three. For those named in 1965 or 1966 (five biographies), I have added some explanation, primarily as a Note to prose or bullet mentions of the ACBL Hall of Fame. There are some differences in my wording. For Oswald Jacoby and Howard Schenken there is some technical problem related to the existence of another Note about the first ten Life Masters --that is, i infer, multiple Notes that incorporate formal references, or perhaps nicknamed formal references.

For Jacoby and Schenken, Note B is now defined in the bullet list of Bridge accomplishments rather than in the notes block, where their Note A remains defined. This is one work-around a bug concerning nested Refs or Notes or their defs (whose explanation by J.o.R. Wikipedia:Help desk#Referencing errors on Howard Schenken isn't quite right).

--P64 (talk) 16:19, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Visit Milton Work, Sidney Silodor, or Waldemar von Zedtwitz to consider how the early/TBW hall of fame should be covered --without the technical maybe-distraction.

I plan to cover the 1964 class comprising Vanderbilt, Culbertson, and Goren; perhaps tomorrow.

--P64 (talk) 00:20, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Video interviews

(and other videos). Our list section 4.1 is now limited to audio-video published at YouTube, which is common. Many more interviews of bridge players are available there. How many should be listed here?

Recently I have added some a-v recordings (not interviews only) to the External links sections of player pages including Berkowitz, Cohen, Garozzo, Gitelman, Levin, Meckstroth, Mark Molson. Those are listed in section 4.1 as I amend (2015-01-08). These are not:

A

Eric Kokish BK, Marion Michielsen BK BT, Jenny Wolpert BK AG, Gavin Wolpert BK, Meike Wortel BK

Key: AG = Audrey Grant; BK = Bridge Kids; BT = Bridge Topics

(maintain the lists without change to the following paragraph) --P64 (talk) 17:55, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

The linked names (from memory as I write) are people with new pages this fall. Those recordings are not listed in section 4.1. Probably I will add others. The plain names are from my "User contributions" and represent recordings that I "discovered" working on sections 1.1 and 4.1 of this page this week. Probably I will add others.

--P64 (talk) 22:00, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Here are some more players featured in recordings published at YouTube by Daniel Lavee (which include the Bridge Kids series, BK). All these show up in the right-hand column of the page for the first of them, "Sabine Auken" by Daniel Lavee.

B

Sabine Auken, Thomas Bessis BK, Vincent DeMuy BK, John Kranyak BK, Justin Lall BK, Fredrick Nystrom BK, Sandra Rimstedt BK, Michael Rosenberg

--P64 (talk) 17:55, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Many more interviews of bridge players are available there. How many should be listed here?. I'm not sure that this article is the right place to include them. For players for whom we have Wikipedia articles, they should be included in their articles, perhaps in the "External links" section. JH (talk page) 18:22, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Above I inserted bold headings A (added to player pages recently) and B (located but not so added yesterday). They are not generally listed here in section 4.1.

Yesterday I used at Benito Garozzo a December text interview by Fernando Lema at CSBnews (the South American Federation). There are several others at CSB interviews, English including Kokish (a-v); Madala (a-v); Duboin (text); Bocchi (a-v).

--P64 (talk) 20:37, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

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People with Wikipedia articles

Though this is a very useful list, I'm not sure that it belongs in this article, rather than perhaps on the project page. If it does remain here, then I think we ought to amend the article's lead, where we say: This list is a compilation of contract bridge players, writers, administrators and personalities who have been recognized for their skills, achievements or contributions to the game as identified by various specific sources. Otherwise we seem to be saying that we ourselves are a source for recognizing players. At the very least, I think the list of those with Wikipedia articles ought to be moved from the beginning to near the end of the article, or else we seem to suggest that our judgement of who are notable players is pre-eminent over the other sources whose lists we include. JH (talk page) 19:39, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

I see your point regarding the lead. Would a convenient solution be to move this new alpha list to the 'See also' section under a subsection title 'People with Wikipedia articles'? Also, to eliminate redundancy, it is my intent to remove the other alpha list from the navigation template (the template found at the bottom of almost all contract bridge articles) and replace it with links to lists of individuals by country. Newwhist (talk) 02:48, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

Would a convenient solution be to move this new alpha list to the 'See also' section under a subsection title 'People with Wikipedia articles'? Yes, that would work. JH (talk page) 06:53, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

 Done Newwhist (talk) 17:20, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

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