Talk:List of companion plants/Archive 1

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Kudos to you for adding proper sources.

I appreciate the tremendous effort that has been made here. However, I believe that it is a violation of Wikipedia rules to have citations point to commercial websites. I think it will make this page tough to be taken seriously. I have been spending a substantial amount of time now searching for academic research on this subject to support what has been done here. I have found quite a bit. I will be entering it ASAP.-Jenjhall (talk) 04:47, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

I removed the commercial references with the permission of the person who put them there. Working to replace them-Jenjhall (talk) 23:14, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

Chard is a popular, hardy crop for the gardener. It is related to beets. It is not a brassica. It does not appear here and should have its own section. It is reputed to do well with Borage, onions, and beans, but not with most herbs- but sources would be nice. --Maximilian333 (talk) 18:00, 31 March 2014 (UTC) This reports that Basil kills rosemary. I can find no other reference to this online, nor can I find it in any of the online references given. I have also seen several instances of basil & rosemary sharing the same pot. Charlesnwoods (talk) 06:15, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

In the flowers category, sunflowers is listed with this comment: "Was grown as a companion for sunflowers before..." Presumably it was grown as a companion crop for corn or tomatoes, and not itself. Anyone know? 24.118.48.75 (talk) 13:29, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Sources

I agree that sources are needed to help people differentiate between valid applications of polyculture from fads and myth which have crept into the practice of "Companion Planting" since its inception. Many gardeners are coming here because they want to apply the best science to their gardens without using short-sighted solutions offered by the chemical and petroleum industry. Most of us have no interest in witchcraft or myth when trying to put food on the table. But to grow organically requires an arsenal of techniques including any advantages from plant relationships (I'm not referring to human "relations"). Many of these associations are simply mechanical- polyculture such as intercropping prevents pests easily jumping from plant to plant and destroying a row in rapid succession. Many plants simply shade soil around more delicate plants from overdrying, which foils a huge amount of gardener's efforts. Some plants do repel or mitigate target pests, encourage nitrogen fixing bacteria, and so forth. People employ these practices wholesale, but what they really want is to know which of these are valid "best practices" and that is the aim of this list. Many of the sources are out there, we just need lay gardeners to find a scientific/academic basis for what they post here. When they don't, the more scientific of us need to be charitable and help add sources. --Maximilian333 (talk) 18:00, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

This list with no sources is almost worthless. I've seen so much contradictory information going around, that if I see a list of this type with no references, i simply don't pay too much attention to it. I think it is more interesting who says it, that what is being said in this particular case. --Cacuija (my talk) 15:20, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Working on it. --Leopoldhausen (talk) 03:54, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

Check out An Intercropping Bibliography by Walter T. Federer. BU-1407-M in the Technical Report Series of the Biometrics Unit, 434 Warren Hall, Cornell University, Ithaca, New York 14853. I think that some of the confusion about whether companion planting has been well researched has to do with semantics. It seems that "intercropping" and "plant associations" are the the appellations of the day. The Intercropping Bibliography noted above cites 3,000 references--Jenjhall (talk) 19:08, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

• Given that planting dill next to tomatoes helps keep caterpillars off the tomatoes (and is recommended as "avoid" here, I would tend to agree). --eleuthero (talk) 03:11, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

It appears that sources have since been added, given the list of references at the bottom of the page. Given that the world of home gardening in general is based on minimal research, I find this list to be incredibly helpful. Kudos! Corta (talk) 06:53, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

The reference for DGS is no longer valid, so I removed it. It can be retrieved from the History if the site is resurrected.

The book Grow More Vegetables, by John Jeavons, an agricultural scientist who developed biointensive agriculture and founded Ecology Action, has lists of companion plants accompanied by some discussion. Many traditional societies have grown certain combinations of plants for centuries or even millennia. The work of agroecologists such as Stephen Gliesson and Miguel Altieri are a source of studies of the underlying interactions of these combinations. Ecologists call these results of interactions in which the product is more than the sum of the parts "emergent properties." A good example are the corn-beans-squash triad and other combinations of corn grown by various Central American farmers that Gliesson gives reference to in his textbook Agroecology. Because the basis of the emergent properties of these plants is in the fungus and other interactions within the soil, these emergent properties are often lost as a result of using chemicals and take years to recover. Thus simply combining plants is insufficient if one doesn't also attend to the accompanying context. This also has been the experience of a farmer I've been working with in Nepal, who still has been unable to recover the distinctive tastes and aromas of scores of landrace rice seeds even after practicing organic agriculture for more than two decades.Singing Coyote (talk) 03:02, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Need a reference on pole beans

I am using the site http://www.motherearthnews.com/organic-gardening/carrots-love-tomatoes-companion-planting-for-a-healthy-garden-zb0z11zbug.aspx to fill in some of the references. The problem I have run across is that it mentions pole beans but doesn't give a scientific name. My research leads me to believe that pole beans are a variety of Phaseolus vulgaris. See the green bean page. It seems unlikely to me that a mere variety would have such different preferences from another variety (bush beans). I suspect that the website I mentioned is a condensation of the original work Carrots Love Tomatoes: Secrets of Companion Planting for Successful Gardening by Louise Riotte. I also suspect that Riotte might be calling what are more commonly called runner beans (Phaseolus coccineus) pole beans. Can anyone with access to this book get back to me?--Leopoldhausen (talk) 03:54, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

Riotti on pole beans

I have a copy of Carrots Love Tomatoes & Roses Love Garlic: Secrets of Companion Planting for Successful Gardening 2004 by Louise Riotti. There pole beans are referred to as Phaseolus vulgaris along with bush beans even though the characteristics mentioned are quite different as you note. Scarlet runner beans are stated to be Phaseolus coccineus.--Jenjhall (talk) 02:10, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

Repels/Distracts

This column needs dividing into a Repels column and a Distracts column as they're complete opposites. E.g. Fennel has 'Aphids' under Repels/Distracts, it in fact attracts aphids, but anyone reading it might think it helps to deter them. NinjaKid (talk) 16:27, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Or, given space considerations, prepend a + to things attracted and - for things repelled. Possibly also decorate as green and red text too. --Belg4mit (talk) 23:34, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Agreed. Cilantro, Parsley and others in this list are susceptible to Aphids! My Garden can tell you that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.193.138.122 (talk) 16:15, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Any weak, malnutritioned, or heat-stressed plant can become susceptible to these pests. Just ask my summer kale (and just about anything in my garden this summer)! --Maximilian333 (talk) 18:03, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

Brassica

It seems silly to individually duplicate all of the info for each Brassica when there is an entry for the family? --Belg4mit (talk) 23:34, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Some Brassicas have different relationships from the rest of the family. Same with nightshades; eg, beans are helpful to aubergines, but detrimental to potatoes and tomatoes. 99.92.20.150 (talk) 00:31, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

Brassicas were listed in the "good for" and "avoid" for beans. Based on two of the references, I removed brassicas from the avoid list for beans.

This article needs a diagram

To be more practically useful, this article needs some sort of easily consulted diagram, with green arrows representing beneficial relationships and red arrows negative relationships. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.60.166.192 (talk) 00:23, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Feel free to do so. Remember, this is the FREE encyclopedia - anyone can contribute. 99.92.20.150 (talk) 00:31, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

The references in this article, with the exception of #3 - which is in fact almost completely negative regarding the value of companion planting - are all hearsay, second-hand unsubstantiated sources and are valueless. I recomment this entry be removed from Wikipedia since it has no rational basis. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.203.119.215 (talk) 15:59, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

I disagree with the suggestion to remove. This list is useful to the lay gardener as a starting point. This article needs more sources and cleanup, and is surely a work in progress. But just because the former is true does not mean that there is no rational basis for companion planting. Companion Planting as a term does need to be taken back from the pseudoscientific realm of plant chakras and interstellar "plant vibes". But polyculture and interplanting are important scientific approaches that exist alongside "what the common folk have been doing". Symbiotic arrangements and plant defenses are well documented and both novice and expert gardeners have learned that some of these relationships exist over many years. Let's not allow the Luddic Fallacy to govern our actions here. The failure to provide absolute proof in itself does not render a claim untrue. But I agree that more sources are needed. The article could also state that "Companion Planting" is a belief system that gardeners use in hopes of better gardening. We don't delete all articles on Islam, Christianity, or Shinto simply because these beliefs have "no rational basis". It needs to be made clear that companion planting is a loose, flawed, but often useful belief system. Hopefully people landing here will be given a list of arguments for and against, and reach rational conclusions on their own. Gardeners want to act on good science, so let's focus on validating whatever we can, and critique those specific practices which have no basis or testing behind them. Here is a well-executed if harsh critique of companion planting: http://puyallup.wsu.edu/~linda%20chalker-scott/Horticultural%20Myths_files/Myths/Companion%20plants.pdf Here is a UMass article which validates the practice as a starting point for gardeners, but encourages ongoing incorporation of scientific basis: http://ag.umass.edu/fact-sheets/home-lawn-garden/companion-planting-vegetable-garden --Maximilian333 (talk) 18:09, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

There is research regarding fava beans (Vicia faba) and intercropping. Should faba beans be considered a type of bush bean or be given a row of its own between bush and pole beans?--Jenjhall (talk) 01:22, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

I decided that they were different enough, so I added a row for it, with a little information. However, if you think it ought to be included in Bush Beans, that's okay. P.S. They are in different genuses, though. Myrrhfrankincensegold (talk) 00:42, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

Removing some statements

I have been searching for any reference that states any relationship either positive or negative about parsley with alliums or nasturtiums with asparagus and have been unable to find anything. I suggest we remove these statements from the list. Thanks-Jenjhall (talk) 20:29, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

Jinjhall, parsley has been mentioned as a distracting [my word] plant by Gertrude Franck in her book, Companion Planting (1983). About parsley, she writes: It is a good protective plant but has properties that make it a difficult partner. Borders are the best position for parsley if it has stable neighbours. It makes a good partner for the sturdy onion and, above all, for tomatoes. Pests will not attack it or the plants beside it, but it is susceptible to disease. Parsley should never be put next to a weak partner; young lettuce, for example, would begin to die after it was half grown. (p. 55) Also, sometimes our definition of 'companion' can be limiting. Franck has a listing of plants she refers to as Good Neighbours. (p. 23) Research in plant relationships today are demonstrating that plants communicate in a number of ways heretofore unknown. So, the proximity of some plants to others may be something like a good doctor that does no harm, just does his or her job, but doesn't trespass either. Afrothetics (talk) 15:35, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

Awesome, as the kids would say! If you have a good reference for something please do so. I am just trying to clear away some of the uncited material so that we can get rid of the banner at the top of the page that says that we lack inline citations.Jenjhall (talk) 16:43, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

Beans are listed in the "Avoid" column of peppers without a citation. However I found a reference to a journal article that discusses their successful intercropping with peppers. I suggest we remove the listing in the "Avoid" column. - Jenjhall (talk) 13:44, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

I suspect that users occasionally add things to the wrong column by mistake especially when the entry is that user's only post to this list. Beans need moist soil, and pepper plants need a little bit of shade to prevent scorching; I've been planting them successfully together for years. --Maximilian333 (talk) 18:13, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

For beets there is a doubtful statement: "Good for adding minerals to the soil through composting leaves which have up to 25% magnesium." No plant has leaves that consist of 25% Mg! --90.191.1g6.98 (talk) 16:54, 29 April 2018 (UTC)

Corn <-> Tomato references conflict

A University of Florida reference states that corn can be used as a suitable intercrop with tomatoes. This is in conflict with Louise Riotte's "Carrots Love Tomatoes" reference that states that the combination should be avoided. I suggest we use the University of Florida recommendation. Comments? -Jenjhall (talk) 17:31, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

Rubus / cane fruits (blackberries, raspberries etc.)

Could someone with access to citable sources add some info for blackberries, raspberries et cetera? -- Gordon Ecker, WikiSloth (talk) 09:11, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

Tomato Classification

Tomatoes are listed under 'vegetables' and ought to be moved to the fruit classification, as tomatoes are fruits and the leafy parts of the plant are not commonly eaten.

The same could be said of peppers, beans, squash, eggplant, peas or okra. Plenty of botanical fruits are classified as culinary vegetables based on how they're traditionally cooked. -- Gordon Ecker, WikiSloth (talk) 00:26, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

Bush Beans?

A bit confused here, for "helps" and "avoid" it lists soybeans... contradictory information. Secondly, "bush beans" if I click on the wiki-page have "dry beans" as bush beans, yet it says to avoid planting bush beans near dry beans. Clarification? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.79.74.115 (talk) 20:16, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

Mistakes due to lack of programming knowledge

Sorry I messed up the colors on the chart (in the Bean Area and the Legume area). I am not an expert on this code. Anyone who wants to fix it has my thanks. Myrrhfrankincensegold (talk) 00:29, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

 Done Stevie is the man! ^{Talk • Work} 14:29, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

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