Talk:List of children of the presidents of the United States/Archive 1
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| Archive 1 |
Cleveland's children
Where are Cleveland's five children with his wife? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.64.6.13 (talk) 07:45, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
- Nevermind, I see Cleveland's listed twice. Due to his two non-consecutive terms in office. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.64.6.13 (talk) 07:47, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
How to de-cruft this article
There is valid information here, but it's entangled with stuff that violates WP:NOTE. Any suggestions for how to cut out the junk, before I go with my own ideas? Couch on his Head and Smiling (talk) 21:06, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
- I think you'd be hard pressed to identify items on this page that violates WP:NOTE or are cruft. I've seen many AFDs over the years on presidential families and like it or not, I believe there's a fairly firm consensus on Wikipedia (there's an indisputable consensus in the media and academia) that first families are encyclopedic material. It's worth remembering that the president of the United States is both Head of Government and Head of State. I don't believe that this article should be cut down and it's also worth remembering that there's no rule that says everything on a list must itself be notable for an individual article; quite often a comprehensive, encyclopedic list requires items that would not be suitable for their own article. --JayHenry (talk) 02:45, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
- Ok let me identify it then:
- The entire list is unsourced.
- It is a collection of genealogies.
- Being genealogical, much of it adds nothing to the knowledge of the reader.
- The "Notes" column is empty for most children, which tells the whole tale.
- The grandchildren column is crammed with stuff, makes no pretense of citation or relevance, and some of them are still living, some are under the age of majority.
- I can put an {{unreferenced section}} at the top, but does anyone have a pretty way to get rid of the grandchildren column? I didn't make it and I hesitate to jump in and mangle things. <( User:Couch on his Head and Smiling (talk) )> 01:25, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
- But of course, the reader would only find this information if they came looking for it! If someone comes to this page, it adds to their knowledge precisely the knowledge they seek. As a Head of State, and not merely a Head of Government, the first family is valid encyclopedic content. The notes column is used frequently and there's no reason for a requirement that, say, 50 percent of the entries must have notes for it to be a valid column. If you think that removing the grandchildren is a good use of your time, I guess I won't complain about that. This content is largely sourced elsewhere on Wikipedia, so it will be tedious, but not difficult, to source it if you so demand. Ideally, we'd spend our energy sourcing things for which people doubted the veracity, not sourcing things that people demand against content they don't like. --JayHenry (talk) 01:42, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
- WP:BLP <- There's more than just curiosity at question here. <( User:Couch on his Head and Smiling (talk) )> 04:00, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
- I'm not trying to remove the "Notes", I'm saying we keep only those with "Notes". There are too many with no "Note"-ability to justify them. <( User:Couch on his Head and Smiling (talk) )> 17:31, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
- There's no basis to remove a member of a first family because the note column is empty. This is an encyclopedic list of children of presidents and should thus list the children of presidents. Removing some children because of not using the note column would make this a less encyclopedic list, not more. --JayHenry (talk) 01:34, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
- I already pointed out that there's no requirement that a list such as this contain only notable members that already have their own articles. This is the perfect example of a list that would be less encyclopedic by adhering to that (fabricated) standard. --JayHenry (talk) 01:35, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
- I agree, presidential children are notable, ipso facto; having your own article is not necessary. But non-notable grandchildren? And worse, no references anywhere? <( User:Couch on his Head and Smiling (talk) )> 03:55, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
- I have no objection to removing the grandchildren. In the next couple days I'll start going through the articles on the presidents and seeing if the references there support the information here. Hopefully, we'll be able to get a lot of the sourcing through that. --JayHenry (talk) 04:32, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
- Sounds good. <( User:Couch on his Head and Smiling (talk) )> 20:40, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
- I have no objection to removing the grandchildren. In the next couple days I'll start going through the articles on the presidents and seeing if the references there support the information here. Hopefully, we'll be able to get a lot of the sourcing through that. --JayHenry (talk) 04:32, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
- I agree, presidential children are notable, ipso facto; having your own article is not necessary. But non-notable grandchildren? And worse, no references anywhere? <( User:Couch on his Head and Smiling (talk) )> 03:55, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
- I already pointed out that there's no requirement that a list such as this contain only notable members that already have their own articles. This is the perfect example of a list that would be less encyclopedic by adhering to that (fabricated) standard. --JayHenry (talk) 01:35, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
- There's no basis to remove a member of a first family because the note column is empty. This is an encyclopedic list of children of presidents and should thus list the children of presidents. Removing some children because of not using the note column would make this a less encyclopedic list, not more. --JayHenry (talk) 01:34, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
- But of course, the reader would only find this information if they came looking for it! If someone comes to this page, it adds to their knowledge precisely the knowledge they seek. As a Head of State, and not merely a Head of Government, the first family is valid encyclopedic content. The notes column is used frequently and there's no reason for a requirement that, say, 50 percent of the entries must have notes for it to be a valid column. If you think that removing the grandchildren is a good use of your time, I guess I won't complain about that. This content is largely sourced elsewhere on Wikipedia, so it will be tedious, but not difficult, to source it if you so demand. Ideally, we'd spend our energy sourcing things for which people doubted the veracity, not sourcing things that people demand against content they don't like. --JayHenry (talk) 01:42, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
- Ok let me identify it then:
living descendants
how about adding living presidential grandchildren? Maybe we can create a separate page for living descendants--T1980 (talk) 03:46, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
Disruptive editing: changing of direct Wikilinks to redlinks, links to disambiguation pages, and links to redirects.
- Please remove this section when this issue is resolved!
There has been disruptive editing of List of children of the Presidents of the United States. An anonymous IP editor initially did partial section blanking to eliminate alleged illegitimate children, and has been persistently violating MOS:LINK by substituting links to non-existent articles (redlinks), links to redirects, or links to disambiguation pages for the original direct Wikilinks to the target articles. This editor's contributions, at this writing, has made fifty edits to this article, which have been reverted.
This may have been originally unintentional, as the anonymous IP editor was substituting full names for the nicknames. For instance, this editor most recently changed [[Gerald Ford|Gerald]] to [[Gerald Ford Jr. |Gerald]] (a redlink) & [[Jimmy Carter|Jimmy]] to [[James Earl Carter Junior |James]] (another redlink). I have posted to the anonymous IP editor's talk page, directing the editor to Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Linking, Wikipedia:Red link, Wikipedia:Redirect, and Wikipedia:Disambiguation. I also placed an example on the talk page showing how to use [[Martha Jefferson | Martha Wayles Skeleton Jefferson]] to produce Martha Wayles Skeleton Jefferson instead of using [[Martha Wayles Skeleton Jefferson]], which produces the redlink Martha Wayles Skeleton Jefferson.
However, none of this has seemed to make any difference. This editor does not respond to posts on the user talk page, and continues the disruptive replacement of valid wikilinks with redlinks or less direct wikilinks, despite several reversions (one reversion of 32 edits by another editor, and three reversions by myself). In the interest of impartiality, I would like to now step away from this issue and refer it to others. I ask that other editors monitor this article now tho keep it consistent with Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Linking by reverting or correcting any edits that stray from this policy.
Where is Monroe
Where is Monroe, the 5th President, has no section, he had three children with his wife. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.59.122.58 (talk) 05:09, 21 October 2014 (UTC)
Alleged
The lede states: "This is a list of children of U.S. Presidents, including stepchildren, adopted children, and alleged illegitimate children." [emphasis obviously mine] I am wondering if we can get some clarification on what "alleged" means in this context. Scholarly sources? I believe there are a few cranks in modern history who have alleged that they have born a President's child due to extramarital affairs, but no one takes them seriously. - Location (talk) 21:59, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
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Trivia
The Notes section of this article has been used largely to list the grandchildren of Presidents and/or how they died. How trivial should any other mention be? Presidential candidate, Ambassador, Senator, Governor? DerbyCountyinNZ (Talk Contribs) 22:46, 27 January 2017 (UTC)
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Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:List of Vice Presidents of the United States which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 23:03, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion
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James Madison has an alleged son with his slave
There's a woman (Bettye Kearse) who claimed to be a descendant of James Madison and his slave named Coreen BettyeKearse (talk) 11:16, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
- @BettyeKearse: As mentioned in previous messages to you, you must provide published evidence from reliable sources to support this claim. --Drm310 🍁 (talk) 13:46, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
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