Talk:List of best-selling albums/Archive 8

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Edit request on 30 June 2012

Maurie... or any editors.... sorry, if i'm re-writing request for the Bodyguard soundtrack 45m-claim.... because this sources i think very reliable, because it is use for Mariah Carey's Daydream claim.... BET... thank you

http://www.bet.com/news/music/2012/01/26/adele-s-21-sets-new-records.html

39.212.188.109 (talk) 05:47, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed. The source appears reliable, but I don't know what you're using it to support. What addition or change do you want to make to the article? Please be precise. Rivertorch (talk) 06:10, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

Sales

Why is it here, Madonna's Ray of Light album is said to have sold 20 million copies but on her discography page it is said to have only sold 16 million? — Preceding unsigned comment added by SuperCell3000 (talk • contribs) 06:14, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

What do you mean by "that". If you're talking about Ray of Light, I kept it because, as you mention, there are lower claims than 20 million. The album's certifications support those sales and almost the 20 million, too.

Remember, the requirements say that:

albums released "between 1990-2000 are required to have their lowest available claimed figures supported by 50-70%".

This means that albums released in 1998 need their sales claim to be supported by ~54% in certifications. Since Ray of Light 's gold and platinum awards add up to 12.505 million (7 million in Europe, 4 million in the US, 0.70 in Canada, 0.25 million in Mexico, 0.25 million in Brazil, 0.21 in Australia, 0.02+ million in Hong Kong, 0.015 New Zealand and 0.06 million in Argentina) I kept the album.--Mαuri^’96 “...over the Borderline” 18:56, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

May i?...

yes, it seem's still confusing for Ray of Light sales claim.... The Guardian proudly claim the 16m-claim... but several highly reliable sources also bravely claim the 20m sales such as... BBC, VH1, The Independent, The National, and Vogue...

and even Maurie already said about the requirement certification for album that release between 1990-2000... and Ray of Light acceptable to be include on this exclusive club...

There's a lot of Madonna hater.... let their vandalims the album article... but don't ever touching this list... thank u.. 182.3.129.168 (talk) 05:56, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

Well why not change the sales figures on her discography page to 20 million? I think it's only fair to have her sales be the same everywhere on Wikipedia. I dont think it makes sense to have different sales all over the website. It is confusing (SuperCell3000 (talk) 01:36, 4 July 2012 (UTC))

The Beatles

Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band is not a compilation/greatest hits album. It is a studio album that was eventually used as a soundtrack. Meanwhile, their album "1" is a greatest hits album. (SuperCell3000 (talk) 08:48, 4 July 2012 (UTC))

I think what he means is that they should be colored as such which they are not. (98.181.62.167 (talk) 21:50, 4 July 2012 (UTC))

 Done--Mαuri^’96 “...over the Borderline” 21:45, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Edit request: Status of Double Albums - The Wall, The White Album etc

I noticed that The Beatles (White Album) is not on this list. Hearing that it sold 19 million units in the US, I thought it strange. Then did some reading and discovered that (in the US at least) double album sales got counted twice. So although it sold about 9.5 million units, it was doubled because it was a double album. The same strange discrepancy appears to also be the case with Pink Floyd's 'The Wall'. All this seems reasonable, provided the same logic is applied consistently across all albums, all sales, all markets. BUT, this isn't mentioned in the article, which I think perhaps it should be, just to clarify for the apparent discrepancy in some figures. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.240.207.146 (talk) 13:04, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Regarding the discrepancy, The Wall is special because its American sales actually exceed its certifications (see here). What do you mean when you say:

provided the same logic is applied consistently across all albums, all sales, all markets

I don't think the discrepancy you mention really had that much impact, seeing that we haven't had an edit request where some misinformed journalist claims Double Live or Greatest Hits - Volume I & Volume II somehow sold 20 million copies (both were certified 20x platinum or more in the U.S.)

Given the ongoing one-man project to add albums' certifications to the list (see here and here), I will add a paragraph explaining what you asked to be clarified after certifications are added for the double albums on the list.--Mαuri^’96 “...over the Borderline” 21:33, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Shania Twain's UP!

in the last few months, Shania Twain's UP! was included on this list with claim of 20 million from concertboom.com, but it has been deleted from the list since..

why Up! is deleted?... i try to find a reliable sources for Up!.. but i couldn't... and only find this sources...

http://music.aol.com/artist/shania-twain

and yes, i think this is not reliable also... please advise... thanks 39.209.187.254 (talk) 11:37, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

The biography itself says: "This entry is from Wikipedia, the user-contributed encyclopedia.". So no, it is not reliable.

I was the editor who both added and removed Up! from the list. You may know that the RIAA awards "gold", "platinum" and "multi-platinum" awards for shipments of 0.5 million, 1 million and 2+ million discs. However, double albums get "double" certifications, one for each disc in the album. (See the US version of this list)

When I added Up! I thought that it was a one-disc album, meaning that its 11x Platinum certification=11 million shipments. This would have meant that its total certifications were 16.535 million (European 3x platinum certification includes sales from Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Russia, Serbia, Slovakia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey and the UK)

However, I soon found out that Up! was in fact a double album, meaning that the 11x Platinum=5.5 million shipments, as you can see at the US-only list. This lowered its total certifications to 11.035 million, which is not enough to include it in the list because:

To be on this list, albums released:

• in 2000 and onwards are required to have their lowest available claimed figures supported by 70-90% in certified units. (That is 1.66% for each additional year after 2000)

Since it was released in 2002, Up! would need 14.66 million in certifications to be added.--Mαuri^’96 “...over the Borderline” 22:20, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 11 July 2012

In the 30 million list... Iron Butterfly's In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida album, claimed to have sold 30 million copies.. but the sources is look NOT PROPERLY and the only one which is not connect with reliable internet sources... this case is same like George Michael's Faith sources before, but it has been change already..

according to the Band official site... http://www.ironbutterfly.com/biography.php.... In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida sold 30 million...

and Bloomberg support it in their site.. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-12-15/iron-butterfly-seeks-royalty-payments-40-years-after-in-a-gadda-da-vida-.html.. which said the 30m-claim from the band site...

so, if one of the two sources above is reliable, please change the earlier sources... thank you...

39.210.210.122 (talk) 11:15, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

Nope. The sources are not independent from the subject. Mdann52 (talk) 10:47, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 15 July 2012

Hello, it's me again.... sorry about that..

I just wondering about ricky martin's 1999 album... i have found the sources from hello magazine that stated about that gay singer... the self titled album sold 20 million.... please advise... thanks.... http://www.hellomagazine.com/profiles/ricky-martin/

180.243.86.220 (talk) 12:59, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

 Not done– The album has available certifications of 11.85 million which includes sales/shipments from Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Russia, Serbia, Slovakia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey, the UK, the United States, Canada, Australia, Argentina, Brazil, Mexico, Japan and New Zealand.

Chances are the album has not even sold 15 million, especially given how U.S. certifications sometimes exaggerate sales.--Mαuri^’96 “...over the Borderline” 20:38, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Closed request to clear backlog.--Canoe1967 (talk) 03:05, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

AC/DC 50 million claim

Hi maurie.... yesterday, i was looking for new sources of AC/DC album and i have found from TIME magazine but in ANIMAL ARTICLE about sharks which is act calmer when listening to ACDC... here is the sources...

http://newsfeed.time.com/2011/06/06/heavy-metal-under-the-sea-sharks-act-calmer-when-listening-to-acdc/

if you read on the article, it is stated that 50 million-plus human have made the Black album into one of the biggest selling album of all time.... meaning that the Black album sold 50 million copies...

is this sources reliable?.... because if it so... then AC/DC Black album followed Pink Floyd as the second best selling album of all time...

Please advise... thanks.. 39.208.1.200 (talk) 05:27, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

 Done– The source is reliable and selling one million more between 2008 and 2011 is plausible.--Mαuri^’96 “...over the Borderline” 21:02, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

I totally disagree, one source is not enough. Figures should be refering to 2 or more sources at least. 49 millions copies is still breaking news for me. (Readerweb (talk) 22:02, 27 July 2012 (UTC))

You asked for more sources, and here you go:

• (2010) "AC/DC, “Back in Black” (Great Moments in Pop Music History)" (non-modifiable Encyclopædia Britannica blog)
• (2010) AC/DC: High-Voltage Rock 'n' Roll: The Ultimate Illustrated History (book written by music journalist)
• (2010) "AC/DC rocks with Iron Man - “Shoot To Thrill” VIDEO ADDED!" (non-modifiable music news article)

I'll now proceed to add the first two (which are the two more reliable ones) to the list.--Mαuri^’96 “...over the Borderline” 03:37, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Deal ! fair enough, go for it (Readerweb (talk) 11:29, 28 July 2012 (UTC))

Metallica's Metallica/The Black Album

Today i was trying to find an updated for several album that might be consider to be high than the current sources..

I find this sources....

http://www.contactmusic.com/news/metallica-headline-download_1343544

http://www.skynews.com.au/showbiz/article.aspx?id=759861&vId=

this sources is talk about The Black Album of Metallica, which is famously known as Metallica Album.... if you read both of the article, it was stated that the black album has sold ALMOST 30 million copies....

is that sources reliable?.. i mean... contactmusic, sky news... this sources is credible and reputable.... the word of Almost.... is this reliable also..?

I mean... to be included in the 30 million club... the album must sold at least 30 million.... not almost... is that right?....

And.... i found another sources, but this time.. it was stated that the black album sold OVER 30 million...

http://www.revolvermag.com/uncategorized/metallica-to-release-live-recording-of-intimate-nashville-show.html

But i think the sources from Revolver Magazine is not reliable enough...

I'm Confuse.... Please advise... 182.1.156.81 (talk) 08:59, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Norah Jones's Come Away With Me

I’m the one who asked to change Norah Jones’s debut album sources which is a dead link… and the sources from me, stated the 20-million claim from the Daily Telegraph….. but I feel she sold her debut album more than that…

And I find this sources…. Biography from The Guardian…… which is stated Jones debut to sold 22 million…

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/norah-jones

And this sources make me more excited… sources from The Daily Telegraph also…. But this article stated that Jones Debut album sold 26 million.... wow...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/cdreviews/9229594/Norah-Jones-Little-Broken-Hearts-CD-review.html

and this makes me so confuse...

which claim is the true ?.... 22 million or 26 million...?.... or still the old actual 20 million figures....

where is the most reliable …Please Advise.. 182.3.6.227 (talk) 09:58, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

The Who's / Tommy Album

I remember several years ago that someone was said that the who's sold his Tommy album 20 million copies... then i try to find the sources.... even, honestly i don't who the h3ll they are.... but if they deserve to be included on this list... why not?..

here is the two sources, which claim their Tommy album sold 20 million copies...

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/entertainment/a/-/entertainment/12741019/roger-daltrey-on-why-he-still-gets-tommy/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/opera/8606544/Roger-Daltrey-Why-I-brought-Tommy-back-to-life.html

please advise as usual... 182.3.6.227 (talk) 10:38, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Queen's Made in Heaven

That album also was stated several years ago on this talk article... queen's made in heaven was stated by the Guardian for being sold 20 million copies.... is this reliable enough?... because i have try to find other's sources for such claim... but it seems only from The Guardian...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2008/mar/20/news1..

182.3.6.227 (talk) 11:04, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Why ONLY Michael Jackson's album sales displayed in range figure ?

Michael Jackson's album figures are always shown in range display : Thriller between 65-110 millions, Bad between 30-45 millions ??? Why can't we do the same with the rest of list !! I get the feeling that when it comes to Michael Jackson there is this Corporatism against him. Either we put the last figure available or we apply the same "range system" to the whole list for each album. That does not fit with wikipedia standard. (Readerweb (talk) 20:41, 2 July 2012 (UTC))

There's only "corporatism" against him because there's also corporatism for him exaggerating his album sales. I beg of of you to try and look at the album's certifications coldly, without remembering you like the artist or his music, without thinking about any sales you've ever seen on a forum, on a Sony website or even on Michael's official website.

Tell me, then, how can an album that has 19 million in sales from countries that represent over 70% of the music market sell 45 million copies?--Mαuri^’96 “...over the Borderline” 08:10, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

Sorry partner but i don't get your point. My question was, why ONLY Michael Jackson's album sales are displayed into range system? Whether sales exagerated or not its not the point. The whole list is NOT PERFECT for each artist. We should either apply the range system display to the whole list or editing the last (and updated) figure available for each album. In Michael Jackson's Bad case, the album has sold 45 million copies according to REUTERS, its enough neutral reference (not from Jackson official website). Thriller album shouldn't be display either in range system as many reliable websites referencing this album well over 100 million copies.

If needed, I would be pleased to investigate point by point, album by album, all different sales figure available around reliable website so as to apply the range system figure for each album in the list. But it's not about True Album Sales, it's about Album Sales Reported, we're not allowed to generate politics around that. IMO, I think the last updated figure available is quite enough. (Readerweb (talk) 20:52, 18 July 2012 (UTC))

First off, it's not necessarily about posting the last figure for each artist, as these are sometimes inflated by first-party sources (the artist's management, their label, etc.) for promotional purposes. If you don't believe me, take a look at this description of Rumours 's sales and then my comment.

In my opinion, the reason that we have sales ranges just for Michael Jackson is simple. He has stubborn fans (who wanted the 45 million and 110 million figures) and this page has stubborn editors (who pushed for the more realistic 30 and 65 million figures). That's about it. If we could come to a sort of agreement *cough* start a productive discussion *cough*, that would be great.--Mαuri^’96 “...over the Borderline” 03:12, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

I would like to help. Based on certifications only, Thriller has sold 51 933 761 copies. 65 or even 75 million is credible, but 110 million around the world is almost impossible when the certificated ones make up 80% of the market. --XtinoFrost (talk) 14:19, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Michael Jackson

Why is it that Michael Jackson's albums are the only albums to show ranges? The fact that certifications are not always 100% accurate should allow everyone's ranges to be shown. Better would be no ranges shown because it seems that Wikipedia has been glorifying Michael for a long time now (98.181.62.167 (talk) 19:34, 6 July 2012 (UTC))

I agree. I've "fought" Michael Jackson bias and sales inflation (especially in the case of Thriller) for quite a while now. Anyone else want to voice their opnion so we can reach some sort of consensus?--Mαuri^’96 “...over the Borderline” 04:05, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

The sales should be at least in the middle of the range, or at least the most credible one. Only in his albums I see that sales inflation. --XtinoFrost (talk) 17:41, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 1 August 2012

Well.... it has been three days already, and there is no response for my four request above regarding with Metallica, Norah Jones, The Who's, and Queen.. i will make it easier and clear..

Metallica.... please change their 28m-figures sources of the Black Album to 30 million with this sources.. http://www.skynews.com.au/showbiz/article.aspx?id=759861&vId=...

Norah Jones... please change her debut album claimed sales from 20 million to 26 million with this sources... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/cdreviews/9229594/Norah-Jones-Little-Broken-Hearts-CD-review.html

The Who's... please include them on the list because their Tommy album claimed to sold 20m with this sources... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/opera/8606544/Roger-Daltrey-Why-I-brought-Tommy-back-to-life.html

Queen album Made in Heaven said by the Guardian to have sold 20m, please include them on the list with this sources... http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2008/mar/20/news1

All sources above are collected from a realible sources but if you all think their certification is not enough to supported the claimed... at least please response... just to make sure this article still monitored... thanks.

182.0.237.190 (talk) 12:29, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

• 1)  Done
• 2)  Done
• 3)  Not done - I couldn't find the detail in the source
• 4)  Not done - same reason as above

Thanks, Mdann52 (talk) 15:35, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 4 August 2012

First... thank you for responding my edit request regarding with 4 artist that has been mention on my earlier request (Metallica, Jones, The Who's, and Queen).

I have see Metallica's The Black Album has been placed on the 30 million list with sources from Sky News, but it seem's that album not placed properly and not alphabetically... The album placed like this :

• Madonna
• Pink Flyod
• Metallica

this is weird.... it should be like this :

• Madonna
• Metallica
• Pink Flyod

Same case was happen to the tragic grunge group Nirvana, but they already remove from the 30m list to their proper place...

Please make this list look more properly and really prestigious, because i believe this list is the main sources for those people who want to see all legendary artist in world history... thanks..

182.3.131.188 (talk) 09:51, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Not done: the list is not sorted alphabetically, it is sorted by sales figures. There does not seem to be a secondary sort key for the table that I can see. Perhaps year should be the secondary key, for example. If alphabetical-by-name is to be the secondary sort key, more than just those three names need fixing. Seems to me that the best way to re-sort these would be to find sources with more specific sales figures than "around 30 million" and "almost 30 million", and then we could arrange them by that, but the list would not necessarily preserve that arrangement on a re-sort if we keep the figures as simply '30'. BigNate37_(T) 17:34, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 4 August 2012

It still seem's confusing dan NOT reliable for Eminem sales album claim sources, two Eminem album, The Marshall Matter LP and the Eminem Show is included on the list with 20 million claim, and by the sources from The Independent and Yahoo Voices...

The sources from The Independent : has been closed and a dead link

this sources is dead.. Byrne, Ciar (August 18, 2005). "The real Slim Shady stands up the fans on his European tour". London: The Independent. Archived from the original on May 14, 2009. http://web.archive.org/web/20090514042111/http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/the-real-slim-shady-stands-up-the-fans-on-his-european-tour-503319.html. Retrieved May 10, 2012.

(If you click the sources.... it would be like this...: http://wayback.archive.org/web/jsp/Interstitial.jsp?seconds=5&date=1242274871000&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.independent.co.uk%2Farts-entertainment%2Fmusic%2Fnews%2Fthe-real-slim-shady-stands-up-the-fans-on-his-european-tour-503319.html&target=http%3A%2F%2Fweb.archive.org%2Fweb%2F20090514042111%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.independent.co.uk%2Farts-entertainment%2Fmusic%2Fnews%2Fthe-real-slim-shady-stands-up-the-fans-on-his-european-tour-503319.html)

and there is a wrong link with the information sources...:

this sources.... Raide, Stephanie (2011-06-08). "Eminem - the Fast Rising Rapper". The Independent. London. http://voices.yahoo.com/eminem-fast-rising-rapper-8607941.html?cat=9. Retrieved 2012-05-10.

is direct to sources from Yahoo Voices.... if you click... it would be like this..

(Raide, Stephanie (2011-06-08). "Eminem - the Fast Rising Rapper". The Independent. London. http://voices.yahoo.com/eminem-fast-rising-rapper-8607941.html?cat=9. Retrieved 2012-05-10)

this sources.... is direct to the Independent sources, not Yahoo link and is DEAD!.... Michael Jackson News: Eminem's Early "Encore"". Yahoo! Music. November 4, 2004. Archived from the original on November 2, 2008. http://web.archive.org/web/20081102041608/http://music.yahoo.com/read/news/12177582. Retrieved May 10, 2012.

(http://wayback.archive.org/web/jsp/Interstitial.jsp?seconds=5&date=1225599368000&url=http%3A%2F%2Fmusic.yahoo.com%2Fread%2Fnews%2F12177582&target=http%3A%2F%2Fweb.archive.org%2Fweb%2F20081102041608%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fmusic.yahoo.com%2Fread%2Fnews%2F12177582)

So.... I ask to repair the information for Eminem album on this list :

By put The Marshall Matters LP 20m-claim with a correct link and information sources from Yahoo Voices... http://voices.yahoo.com/eminem-fast-rising-rapper-8607941.html?cat=9

and please DELETED The Eminem Show from the list, because the sources from Yahoo only mention The Marshall Matter LP to sold 20m worldwide.... I have try to find the sources for The Eminem Show claim... But it seems there is no reliable sources...

thanks..

182.3.131.188 (talk) 10:53, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Not done: None of the sources are dead, and the sourcing stands up for the rest of them. Mdann52 (talk) 15:42, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 11 July 2012

Maurie or any editors... please advise, i really can not understand why until today, there's no change with Nirvana's Nevermind sources and if we look on the 30 million list, it looks like Nirvana placed UNPROPERLY and not alphabetically.... like this :

Madonna Pink Floyd Nirvana

i think, this is should be...:

Madonna Nirvana Pink Floyd

and the sources for Nirvana is... 26 Million claim... http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/reviews/f8dp

I think, should be change with new sources... 30 million claim... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/cdreviews/8781291/Nirvana-Nevermind-20th-Anniversary-Edition-CD-review.html..

please advise... because if not, it makes the 30 million list looks silly and NOT reliable.... thank you..

39.210.255.146 (talk) 11:00, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

I've just checked, and the 15.085 million in certifications the album has (Gold in Finland was 20,00, Diamond in France was 1,000,000) is less than the 15.6 million albums released in 1991 need for a 30 million claim.

I kept the source and moved the album to the "20–29 million copies" section.--Mαuri^’96 “...over the Borderline” 07:28, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

Given that the certification requirements state:

To be on this list, albums released:

"between 1990-2000 are required to have their lowest available claimed figures supported by 50-70% in certified units",

and the 15.085 in certifications the album has is more than the 13.52 million it needs for a 26 million claim, the edit by QuintusPetillius is acceptable and valid.--Mαuri^’96 “...over the Borderline” 20:52, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 8 August 2012

{{edit semi-protected}} Excuse me... is this list still reliable ?

because, i'm confusing to see several albums been added but then deleted, and several albums have been deleted but added again?....

Is this list just a JOKE?.... please advise.... anyone...

Shania Twain's Up have been added again after deleted previously, I'm the one who asked the reason why the album has been deleted, and MAURIE explain clearly.... but now Up! include again... and another Shania Twain's The Woman in me has been deleted ?.... Confusing..

Elthon John's Greatest Hits with 32 million claim... also been deleted.... why?

Latin Pop Gay Singer Ricky Martin now has been included after rejected by several editors... including Maurie...

please advise... if not, then this list should be removed from wikipedia because not reliable for readers.... thank you..

39.212.109.143 (talk) 01:32, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

One editor did all that. I'll have a talk with him and see if we can fix the problems you mentioned. :)--Mαuri^’96 “...over the Borderline” 02:37, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

My bad. All that "one editor" did was add Ricky Martin. Someone else turned the entry for The Woman in Me to the Up! entry and Bluesatellite (who is a very decent editor) removed Elton John's Greatest Hits.

I reverted all the changes except for Elton John's Greatest Hits. I did not add it back in because no reliable sources could be found and because it turns out that all the websites I found that did say the album sold 32 million seemed to by copy-pasting information from Wikipedia that had no source.

In other words, someone a long time ago may have invented the 32 million (on Wikipedia) and it then spread across the Internet since people always copy-paste Wikipedia.--Mαuri^’96 “...over the Borderline” 03:50, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

For Ricky Martin I didn't know until the comment you showed me they were multiples sources claming that it sold 22 millions copies so thank you for your correction. Smashmaster5 04:11, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Nirvana - Nevermind album

Nirvana's Nevermind album is currently stated as selling 26 million - using a source from 2008. There is a more up to date source, from 2011 that states it has sold 30 million worldwide. The 2011 source is the official Nirvana website in a news statement from the 22nd of June 2011. See: "Nirvana 20th anniversary edition". Nirvana.com. 2011-06-22. Retrieved 2012-08-08. {{cite web}}: Italic or bold markup not allowed in: |publisher= (help) QuintusPetillius (talk) 15:57, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

I am going to make the necessary changes as long as no-one minds.QuintusPetillius (talk) 19:03, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

And why not using a reliable third party sources like this one... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/cdreviews/8781291/Nirvana-Nevermind-20th-Anniversary-Edition-CD-review.html..

it would be properly than using a private website... thanks 182.3.184.154 (talk) 01:32, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

 Done--Mαuri^’96 “...over the Borderline” 03:06, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Where is Bee Gees's Spirit Having Flown ????

How many editor in this list?... why in the past two weeks, there's so many error editing in this list.... and today Bee Gees's Spirit Having Flown has been gone from the list... why....

Please Advise... Thanks. 182.8.223.158 (talk) 01:24, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

I don't know, but I've been vaguely aware of a little back-and-forth editing in that regard over the past day or so. My suggestion is that the editor who wants to include the content makes the case for it here. (Without looking into it in depth, I'd be inclined to support the inclusion. It was sourced, and here's another source.) Rivertorch (talk) 09:19, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

I deleted it because it does not have nearly enough certifications to support the 30 million claim. According to the certification requirements:

To be on this list, albums released:

between 1975-1990 are required to have their lowest available claimed figures supported by 25-50% in certified units. (That is 1.66% for each additional year after 1975)

This means that to be included in the list, Spirits Having Flown needs to have its lowest claimed figure supported by 31.66% in certifications.

Since the 1.925 million it has in certifications is not nearly enough for a 30 million claim, I looked for lower ones and found a 1997 Billboard claim for 20 million.

Even with those lower sales, the album still needed 6.33 million in certifications to be included. I researched a little more and found a 1982 claim for US sales of 4 million.

Incredibly, even after adding up all available actual sales (which allowed Breakfast in America to be added), the album still only had 5.9 million in available sales, relatively far from the needed 6.33 million.

The way I see it, if we find hard proof (reputable sources) for the 6 million in the US claim here, we can add the album back in with the 20 million claim.

Finally, I'm against using your other source. Considering what I've just said, it's astronomical and not unlike the 110 million for Thriller. (Actually worse, since 38% of the Thriller highest claim is supported by its certifications, as opposed to a max of 22% for the Spirits Having Flown highest claim when all available sales are used)--Mαuri^’96 “...over the Borderline” 10:31, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

The Who's / Tommy Album ????

I still can not understand why The Who's Tommy album not included in this list, because there is two highly reliable sources The Daily Telegraph and The West Australian which is stated the 20 million claim of Tommy album..

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/entertainment/a/-/entertainment/12741019/roger-daltrey-on-why-he-still-gets-tommy/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/opera/8606544/Roger-Daltrey-Why-I-brought-Tommy-back-to-life.html

Could someone please informed me, is their certification sales doesn't enough to support the 20m-claim ??? or because no one knew who they are?... thanks. 182.5.46.118 (talk) 11:16, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

You are correct. The album cannot be added because its certifications do not reach the minimum limit needed. They don't even cover 25% of the lowest claim of 10 million.--Mαuri^’96 “...over the Borderline” 00:26, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Sales figures are right?

Hello, I am of the Portuguese wikipedia, and I'm trying to update the information in the Portuguese wiki article. However, I must ensure that updates to the English article are right, I'll update on that basis. I realized that the albums Nevermind and Metallica rose to 30 million, before it was 26 million and 28 million respectively. The same information is true? Because I think the number of sales of albums listed in this article are rising very fast. Thank you in advance for the clarification.

PS.: Sorry for any grammatical errors, my English is not 100% fluent.

Matheus93tfm (talk) 02:35, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

I suggest you update the sales for Metallica first. Both albums are from 1991 but Metallica has 18.57 million in certifications compared to the 15.085 million in certifications that Nevermind has.

In my opinion, updating sales for Metallica is more justifiable than updating sales for Nevermind.--Mαuri^’96 “...over the Borderline” 07:46, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

I'm the one who asking to change the sales figure and include of Whitney Houston, Nirvana, Madonna, Metallica, Norah Jones, TLC, AC/DC, Eminem, etc.... because I like this list... it is so prestigious... that's why i hope the editor not making this list just a joke... thanks... 180.243.86.220 (talk) 12:38, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

Usher's Confessions

Yesterday... I was trying to see the sources of Usher's Confessions sales figure... but it was a dead link, i dont know is this happen only in my internet connection or not... but personnally, if i comparing the sources of usher with the others, it's look not nice and highly regarded..

I asked to change the sources of usher's confessions with the sources from BET... http://www.bet.com/video/music/u/usher/confessions-part-ii.html

i THINK, it will be look nice and properly... need your consider... thanks.. 182.0.31.148 (talk) 08:22, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

About The Backstreet Boys

Millennium has sold 40 million worldwide ,, anyway if you look now to this source [1] you will see that very old source and sold 30 million at just 8 months < 12 years ago but in this sources [2] [3] and another sources if you search you will see the true . — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.45.42.70 (talk) 07:10, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Certified sales column

--Excerpt from Archive 7--

Estimated and Certified are two different parallel lines though some try to link the two.Their conclusion will almost ways be different. But if we're joining them, then go to all of MJ's pages and put your original research as his worldwide estimated album sales. Then go to every artist page of the last 65 YEARS, (Elvis,Beatles,James Brown, Rolling Stones, U2) scroll down to all the albums that they have put out, and just disregard the estimated sales of their albums and put the certifications as their worldwide estimated album sales. A pointless effort. An accepted reliable source like Yahoo Reuters is still acceptable regardless of what some may see as inflated. Most albums certification DO NOT, (parrot mode) DO NOT add up to their estimated amount but it is what it is as Wikipedia allows for reliable sources to be the backbone of all articles of their web pages despite what some may believe as exaggerated, or recycled misinformation. Reuters is reliable until a later article of the same page can prove to it to be otherwise. And if you can, can you stop attacking Thriller every chance you get? This is an online encyclopedic webpage and not a blog spot. CaThe Almighty King (talk) 07:51, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

I believe we need to work with ranges in this list. Less than a week ago, there was one source saying that "Bad" sold 45 million copies. Before the moment that this source was published, all the sources were talking about 30 million copies. We should be very careful to include (almost without thinking) such an extremely inflative figure, only because one source introduced a false figure. Just as for Thriller, I think it's better to work with a range (30-45 million).Christo jones (talk) 12:40, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

The problem with including ranges is that before long many fans will see it as an outlet to post more and more inflated sales figures.

On a related topic, I agree with The Almighty King that adding a certified sales column would be beneficial to the article. I have personally already looked for gold and platinum awards and inserted certification tables for albums like Grease, Can't Slow Down and Private Dancer.--Mauri96 (talk) 16:15, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Sounds good to me Christo jones. If anybody can make this page the same level as list of best selling music artist its definitely you Mauri96 :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by The Almighty King (talk • contribs) 02:34, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

Thank you, but I must admit, I'm not nearly as good (or experienced) an editor as Harout72, the user responsible for making the list of best-selling artists as good as it is today.

In any case, adding a certified sales column for every single album (for that is what I plan to do) will take quite a while, especially considering I'm not going to let Wikipedia interfere with my schoolwork anymore. I am in the last year of the IB Diploma, after all.--Mauri96 (talk) 21:34, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

If anyone wants to get started in my absence, here is a list of some albums that I confirm have certifications--Mauri96 (talk) 21:38, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

I've gotten started on the certifications column. I've done The Immaculate Collection as a test and this is what it's going to look like. What I essentially did was go through the history of the list of best-selling music artists and copy the code word-for-word. Because of this, we've lost the centering and color, which, if anyone knows how to insert back in, can be recovered.--Mαuri^’96 “...over the Borderline” 22:31, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

--Excerpt end--

I finally finished the certifications for the "Over 40 million" section and also added color to the new detailed table. My work can be found here.--Mαuri^’96 “...over the Borderline” 20:42, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Certified sales column response

Well, it is look so reliable to put the certification sales on the list, but why only the range from 40 million-up.... how about the rest? why not make the certification column for the lower claim sales?

And... once again, how many editor in this list... in the previous weeks, i've seen Amy Whinehouse's Back to Black was included with 20m-claim from The Washington Times (very reliable sources)... why now deleted?

and Genesis...once included with 20m-claim from nowhere sources... now deleted?

and now... The Beatles's Abbey Road included with 30m-claim... so please, tell me.... when that album will be deleted ?

This list look so reliable two years ago... but now, there's so many deleted and add from many editors.... H3LL.... 182.8.247.114 (talk) 05:57, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

that new column looks terrible and not organized,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,--65.8.190.146 (talk) 09:48, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

The column with the certifications looks fine and is comparable with the way of working in the list of best-selling music artists. It took surely already a lot of time to find all the certifications for the range of albums with sales above 40 million. For the other albums the cerfications will also be added. The certifications column is a good way to create a more reliable list. I believe that the list is now more reliable than two years ago...Christo jones (talk) 11:26, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

Amy Winehouse was deleted because beside the 8 million copies it sold (not shipped) in Europe, it only has 0.725 million in certifications and 2.4 million copies in the US for a total of 10.7 million in certifications (11.1 million when US actual sales are counted).

I myself added and removed Genesis' We Can't Dance (and even gave it a certification table) to show that the "lowest available claim" part of the certification requirement system was too flexible. (At that moment the album had too few certifications for 20 million but enough for 15 million).

Now, We Can't Dance doesn't have have enough certifications for a 20 million claim and will not be added back in until it has 10.3 million in certifications (51.5% of 20) instead of the 9.325 million it has now.

Before, it was possible to add an inflated (Thriller, Bad) or unrealistic (Spirits Having Flown) sales claim and have it stay on the list for long periods of time without people questioning it.

While the list might be more unstable now, it's because more editors are now making sure the list is kept reliable. The people who re-added No Angel, Back to Black and gave us the 45 million claim for Bad are likely uninformed editors who don't think certifications are important or accept whatever the prestigious (but not absolutely reliable) media says.

Regarding the organization of the certifications, I'll fix any discrepancies in their order in a minute.--Mαuri^’96 “...over the Borderline” 23:49, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

prince

Prince's Purple Rain album has sold 26 million copies http://www.startribune.com/entertainment/blogs/153118185.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.221.177.44 (talk) 16:21, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 30 August 2012

Abbey road has sold over 43 million now.

Boratandjesus (talk) 20:54, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. RudolfRed (talk) 03:02, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Millenium of Backstreet boys Sold 40 Million.

the album reached 30 million in February 2000 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/643602.stm

Today the album has sold more than 40 million sources: http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/entertainment/music/music-news/taking-it-back-961300

http://www.allmusic.com/artist/backstreet-boys-mn0000765595

http://www.billboard.com/artist/backstreet-boys/bio/171765#/artist/backstreet-boys/bio/171765

http://www.vh1.com/artists/az/backstreet_boys/artist.jhtml # biographyEnd

http://itunes.apple.com/us/artist/backstreet-boys/id217039 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ramon.rlm (talk • contribs) 18:24, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

2nd best selling

If AC/DC's Back to Black and Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon have both sold an estimated 50 million copies but AC/DC's Back to Black has more certified units sold, shouldn't their album be placed above Pink Floyd's? (72.219.42.115 (talk) 04:27, 3 September 2012 (UTC))

No, the list is organized by year. DSOTM is an older album than Back In Black. DSOTM is also more undercertified than Back In Black (especially in the US).Christo jones (talk) 20:34, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

Organized by year? Then hy is The Immaculate Collection above Pink Floyd's The Wall and below Pink Floyd is Metallica? Also, Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band is below Dangerous and Falling Into is above Music Box. There are many of these mistakes if thats the case (72.219.42.115 (talk) 21:17, 5 September 2012 (UTC))

Meat Loaf

There's no way Bat Out of Hell can have sold 43 millions. 3 proofs :

Proof 1 : all albums around 40 million in this list like Thriller, Titanic, The Bodyguard, Dark Side of the Moon are in the top 10 of all time in several countries including the biggest markets. Bat Out Of Hell isn't even in the top 50 in those countries except USA, UK (we don't have any source for that) and Australia which is a small market.

Proof 2 : everybody knows at least one song from every album on the list because radios played them during decades (which explains the sales) or because advertisings used them cause their creators knew albums had sold a lot and were popular. Bat Out Of Hell songs are all completely unknown.

Proof 3 : when you add known figures for Bat Out Of Hell you don't get close to 43 millions at all. Sales in USA should be a standard among others. Bat Out Of Hell sales in USA are not as big as others albums in the list.

My opinion is Bat Out Of Hell figures are a fake rumor and it has sold a maximum of 17 millions copies. I mean on its wikipedia page, it is said it has sold 2 millions in Canada. Then you go to the page Best selling albums in Canada and you (Meat) laugh a lot (sorry i had ot make that joke). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.33.122.185 (talk) 12:21, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

Proof 2 and 3 are more of opinions than proof. Proof 2 isnt even correct, i mean i know lots of people who dont know any songs from lots of these albums. I only know one song from Dark Side of the Moon. I dont know any song from the Eagles' Greatest Hits, I dont know any Dire Straights songs, and most of the albums on this list i only know because i am a music buff and i personally looked them up. You cant call "Proof 2" evidence of anything. Bat Out of Hell has sold 14 million in the US. Meanwhile, Bad by MJ has sold less than 8 million in the US but supposedly has sold 45 million. (SuperCell3000 (talk) 02:09, 6 September 2012 (UTC))

Question regarding ranks.

Such as this site also suggests the ones I have seen. http://www.neosoul.com/riaa/

Such as I see sites are all saying this, the ranks all are different. If they are all verified, why do the albums all seem to be on a sliding scale?

The Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) certifies as gold albums that have sold at least 500,000 album units. Platinum RIAA certification occurs for shipment of 1 million units, with multiplatinum certification for multiples of 1 million. For boxed sets and double albums with a running time that exceeds 100 minutes, the RIAA multiplies shipments by the number of discs (or its tape or vinyl equivalent). Multiple-disc sets are indicated by a slash and the number of CDs in the set after the multiplatinum level. I've started adding to the chart the number of minutes on double albums so you can tell whether the sale counted as one or more.

All of the albums on this chart are certified at a diamond level for sales of 10 million or more.

Just curious is all. Thank you! :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by DawnSC (talk • contribs) 03:33, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

Im sorry but i personally did not understand anything you said. (72.207.205.124 (talk) 03:27, 13 September 2012 (UTC))

MICHAEL JACKSON BAD ALBUM

would someone please change MICHAEL JACKSON BAD album from "30-45" million to a definite number no other album has this uncertainty,( except Thriller because it has sold so much)

Apparently there is enough reason to say 45 million as sourced below,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,thank you

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/21/entertainment-us-michaeljackson-bad-idUSBRE84K0Z120120521 Other sources:

http://thecelebritycafe.com/feature/2012/05/michael-jacksons-bad-25-include-new-music-and-new-concert-dvd http://www.noise11.com/news/michael-jackson-25th-anniversary-bad-on-the-way-20120522 http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/entertainment/news/article/206593--michael-jackson-s-bad-to-be-re-released-for-album-s-25th-anniversary http://www.prweb.com/releases/2012/5/prweb9523811.htm http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/258982/showbiz/showbizabroad/michael-jackson-is-still-bad-25-years-after-album http://www.musicrooms.net/pop/48666-michael-jackson-s-bad-to-get-25th-anniversary-release.html http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/leisure/2012/05/22/jacko-returns-badder-than-ever/ http://www.entertainment-focus.com/news/michael-jackson-estate-to-release-bad-25 http://www.heart.co.uk/showbiz/showbiz-news/michael-jacksons-bad-gets-re-issue/ http://www.femalefirst.co.uk/music/news/Michael+Jackson-240177.html http://www.mtv.no/news/michael-jackson-s-bad-to-get-25th-anniversary-release-33873/

Not done: there are sources that say otherwise as well, so I'll leave it how it is. Also please remomber to sign your comments on talk pages. Mdann52 (talk) 16:01, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

If there are sources that say otherwise, might i ask why there are 45 million sales being shown at all? If there is not evidence to prove that his sales are that number then why is it being shown? Wikipedia has been bias for years for Michael Jackson. His sales are the only ones that show ranges and they are all grossly overestimated and you have even stated yourself that there are sources that can prove it. (72.219.42.115 (talk) 04:23, 3 September 2012 (UTC))

MDann52 actions in this case are illogical--65.8.188.68 (talk) 11:57, 15 September 2012 (UTC)