Talk:List of best-selling Latin albums

Where is Laundry Service?

Laundry Service has sold 16.6 million of copies confirmed by ChartMaster. Shakira need to be in the second place. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alejandro Ortiz 15 (talk • contribs) 18:13, 28 March 2021 (UTC) (Please remember to sign your posts on talk pages by typing four keyboard tildes like this: ~~~~. Or, you can use the [ reply ] button, which automatically signs posts.)

 Done Re-added with 13 million. Chartmaster.org is a website to avoid. Regards, --Apoxyomenus (talk) 18:29, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

@Apoxyomenus: My problem with this article is that, unlike List of best-selling Latin albums in the United States, there isn't an international trade organization that defines what a Latin album is compared to the RIAA and Billboard in the US. Well okay, there's the Latin Recording Academy, but they don't deal with sales. I'm not really in favor of this article or List of best-selling Latin music artists as the term "Latin" is too vague in the music industry. Is it by sound? Artist nationality? Language? Either way, I don't think both these articles should exist. Erick (talk) 17:06, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

@Magiciandude: I don't actually edit on this list. I only made a follow up in the source to avoid (Chartmasters). However, I tend to concur with your thoughts. Besides this list overall need a major clean (sources/inflated figures etc) in regards the name, it might be re-named to "List of best-selling albums in Spanish" or something like that. The only list I have made notable edits is the List of best-selling Latin music artists where I tried to remove possible hoaxes/inflated figures (the most worried part for me) but I also don't have problem if both are proposed for a deletion. Regards, --Apoxyomenus (talk) 18:00, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

@Apoxyomenus: Hey there! I moved the list from the draft space to the sandbox and made some reasonable changes criteria. For starters, I added Portuguese-language music albums as eligible for our friends from Brazil as well as an album being explicitly being labeled as "Latin" (or any of its subgenres). I'm basing the list on List of best-selling albums using a tenth of their sales criteria (2 million being the minimum instead of 20 million). What do you think? Also, I've seen sources that state that Laundry Service is Shakira's first non Latin album, so it's not listed here. Feel free to make changes as I continue to work on this page. EDIT: Here is one source that backs up what I'm saying. Erick (talk) 00:18, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

Rolling Stones as a reliable source

On the page they use rolling stones as a reliable source for sales of Carlos Santana's supernatural album but when I used rolling stones for sales of Shakira in laundry service they reversed it, I would like to know the congruence.181.64.231.32 (talk) 20:52, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

Ricky Martin (the album)

Hey @آرمین هویدایی: I'm having trouble finding a reliable source that mentions Martin's 1999 album being a Latin(pop) album. The one source that was on the article was from About.com, but I had to remove it for the reason mentioned on the edit summary. Is there any reliable source that mentions it even being a Latin pop album (not a Latin pop artist)? Because I honestly do not want to remove it from the list, but I want to be fair at the same time. Erick (talk) 00:40, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

Hi, I found this article, which has mentioned "Ricky Martin's album runs the gamut from ska and rock' n' roll to Latin pop". Also, in Tidal review, which is already in the article, Latin music has been mentioned, "in 1999, Martin’s star power became undeniable. It also highlighted the public’s thirst for a different kind of pop: one that was more fusion-heavy and that incorporated the hip-shaking rhythms associated with Latin music." Are these enough for that? آرمین هویدایی (talk) 01:36, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

@آرمین هویدایی: Yep! That article by Ed Morales will do it! I just needed a source that stated the album itself was Latin pop and I think Morales' article will suffice. Thanks again as always! You're free to edit the list as well btw. This sandbox is an open invitation to everybody! Erick (talk) 02:43, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

Great! Glad that I could help. آرمین هویدایی (talk) 09:39, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

@Magiciandude: Hi, I've just added Ricky Martin's MTV Unplugged sales as two million copies to its article with a reference. Since it is one of the highest-certified albums of all time in Mexico with 950,000 certified units in the country, with additional certifications in the United States, Argentina, Spain, etc., I guess selling two million copies worldwide makes sense and I suggest adding it to this list. آرمین هویدایی (talk) 19:17, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

@آرمین هویدایی: Thanks! In turn, I added Almas del Silencio. The source for the "1 million" units for Almas says it's for shipments, not sales, and we both know that shipments =/= sales. I had doubts Almas only sold a million copies so I found a source that talks about actual sales and it sold 2 million by September 2003. A more up to date source is preferred, but I cannot find a better one and there's exaggerated sales of 4 million I found online. I do have one favor to ask of you, could you please find a source for the genres of both albums? In order for this draft to become an article, I need to source the genres for the albums in the list. Erick (talk) 13:35, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

@Magiciandude: I found these for Almas del Silencio: Los Angeles Times: flamenco, vallenato, and Latin ballad (😭) / The Burlington Free Press: pop, flavored with fusion of vallenato, bomba, plena, middle eastern

I will look for MTV Unplugged now. آرمین هویدایی (talk) 14:26, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

It was the best thing I could find: [Miami Herald https://www.newspapers.com/clip/88386357/]: pop آرمین هویدایی (talk) 14:55, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

@Magiciandude: Hi, I'm sorry I had a question/suggestion. Have albums with totally similar claimed sales been listed in a meaningful way? For example there are 11 albums with claimed sales of 4 million copies. Shouldn't we list rank them based on their certified units and change their places? Or for example based on their release year or something. آرمین هویدایی (talk) 22:24, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

@آرمین هویدایی: That's a good idea. I'll do some, but feel free as always to edit the page. I'm practically done with this article and la fiesta has moved to Draft:List of best-selling Latin music artists now. And yes, Ricky Martin is listed there of course. I'm working on some certifications on that draft as well. Erick (talk) 01:16, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

So... bad news. I found a source that calls Almas del Silencio the first Latin album since Vuelve. Source. This contradicts the current source that calls the 1999 album a Latin pop album @Apoxyomenus:, @Markus WikiEditor: I honestly don't know what to do here... Erick (talk) 04:19, 29 January 2023 (UTC)

@Magiciandude: I'm not familiar with musical genres classification, but this contradiction may illustrate how the word "Latin" is perceived, even among music genre categorization. Myself, I think the label "Latin" for this album is not entirely wrong, if you think about "International"/Latin American "edition", and/or its Spanish-language-oriented material. --Apoxyomenus (talk) 23:09, 29 January 2023 (UTC)

@Magiciandude: My opinion is similar to that of Apoxyomenus. For me this Ricky Martin album is Latin, as Jennifer Lopez's are too. I think there's already a reference in the article treating the album as Latino too, I think there's nothing to worry about.--Markus WikiEditor (talk) 02:33, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

Sales of Brazilian albums

@Apoxyomenus:, @88marcus:, How are the Brazilian albums looking? Since I provided sources that the music industry counts Portuguese-language music as "Latin", I've incorporated sales of Brazilian albums from its best-selling article. But I do wonder if they represent actual worldwide sales or just sales in Brazil. I added O Canto do Cidade since it either sold 2-3 million copies worldwide, but I do not speak Portuguese, so I cannot verify the reliability of the sources I added. Erick (talk) 08:47, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

@Magiciandude: Sorry for the late response. Ping didn't work. From a first view, I see that most sources are reliable enough to be included and used in Wikipedia. Some of them could be improved. While some sources didn't specify where sales come from (worldwide or Brazil), I think examples like O Canto da Cidade are well-placed, because they fit both figures of claimed and certified sales. Some of these albums also could have sales from countries like Portugal. Once I've time, I could make a tour finding better or sources that specify sales origin. --Apoxyomenus (talk) 23:09, 29 January 2023 (UTC)

@Apoxyomenus Thank you Apoxyomenus. I've been using my free time from work, working on the best-selling Latin music artists as well. You probably have some seem already (I'm assuming that page is already on your watchlist lolz). Cheers! Erick (talk) 23:40, 29 January 2023 (UTC)

Sales scrutiny

@Apoxyomenus:, @88marcus:, @FanDePopLatino:, I'm just about ready to post this article, but would like to see any of you could scrutinize the sales for any possible sales inflations. I'd say I'm done with the article. Erick (talk) 03:17, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

@Erick I have a couple questions. The first is if we should add Laundry Service by Shakira and Escape by Enrique Iglesias? My second question is if we can use certifications from other countries (Perú, Venezuela, Philippines, Colombia, etc), whose certification bodies don't have their websites updated regularly like RIAA or AMPROFON, but we can still provide reliable sources for them? Please let me know. FanDePopLatino (talk) 03:50, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

@FanDePopLatino: I cannot find sources that state Laundry Service is a Latin album. In fact, and I mentioned this in a discussion above, I found a source that says that it is Shakira's first non Latin album. I haven't bothered to look up Escape, but I think Enrique Iglesias 1999 album might be labeled as Latin by music critics but I haven't searched for it yet either. I'm not comfortable adding those certifications, I'm trying to replicate the best selling albums article as much as possible. But I'd rather hear what the other two uses I tag have to say. If either user agrees with using those certifications then I'm cool with it. Hope that helps and it's good to see you. Erick (talk) 04:00, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

I prefer we don't use claims of certification provided by magazines and journals too, let's keep them only for the sales amount and the album's articles. The article seems pretty good for me right now. You did a pretty great work here @Magiciandude:. Congratulations!--88marcus (talk) 00:49, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

Overall, it looks good. I see some high claims for some albums. But the most worried for me at least, is Mi Mundo by Marta Sanchez. Considering there exist only one certification of 50,000 copies in Spain. BTW, she has another claim of 2 million copies of her album "Mujer" (ref) if applies to ("By claimed sales only" section). Same goes to "La Vida... Es Un Ratico" by Juanes based on tenir (a 2007 release) with certifications available. At least, this album sold 1 million copies. There is others albums in Portuguese of over 2 million copies and not listed here, at least based on certifications. See a couple of them in my sandbox; me or y'll can help to search a reliable sources claiming 2 or more million copies for them. Thanks, --Apoxyomenus (talk) 16:51, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

What is the difference with "Laundry service"?

You say that Shakira's album is not Latin and I agree but I wanted to know, what differentiates it from Ricky Martin's crossover album? Both are English albums with 1 or 2 Spanish songs, both are crossovers, therefore Ricky Martin (album) should not be considered a Latin album when the same applies to it as Shakira's crossover album. AlexanderShakifan29 (talk) 13:55, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

This list, unlike the List of best-selling Latin albums in the United States, includes albums that are considered "Latin" by music journalists even if they're not in Spanish or Portuguese, as per WP:SYNTH, they can't be excluded if reliable sources says it's a "Latin album" and sold over 2 million copies. The only source I found for Laundry Service for it being Latin album states that it's not. Laundry Service is neither predominately sung in Spanish or Portuguese nor could I find reliable sources that calls it a "Latin/Latin Pop/Latin rock album". Contrast that with Ricky Martin's self-titled album where I did find a source that calls it a "Latin pop", same with J Lo's "On the 6". Erick (talk) 14:21, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

I found this AllMusic link where he specifies his genres such as Latin Pop and among others. Hope it helps: https://www.allmusic.com/album/laundry-service-mw0000016418 AlexanderShakifan29 (talk) 20:07, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

No, per WP:ALLMUSIC, genres listed at the sidebar can't be used, only the ones listed at the written reviews. That's why none of the links using Allmusic uses the genre sidebar. EDIT: Plus, as a I mentioned before, there's already a source that calls "Laundry Service" her first non Latin album. EDIT 2: "I" didn't say it wasn't a Latin album, sources did that, which Wikipedia adheres to. Erick (talk) 00:19, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

Final verdict

@Muhandes:, @88marcus:, @Apoxyomenus:, @FanDePopLatino:, I'm just about ready to post the article to the mainspace, but before I do, I want to make sure it satisfies what was stated AfD. I was about to remove the "claimed sales only" section, but decided to keep them, albeit without the genres because they're too hard to find given the lack of sources that talk about them. Otherwise, the genres on albums with certifications are listed. One final question, should there also be a certification minimum threshold? I just added Soy como quiero and Busca una mujer by Luis Miguel, but the only certifications available are only from Argentina. When you look at certified copies vs claimed sales for both albums, it's a huge disparity. By minimum threshold, I mean units like at least 500,000 copies certified to be included on the albums with certified units. I have no strong feelings one way or another about this and if consensus is to move them back to "claimed sales only", that's fine by me. Erick (talk) 01:27, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

@Erick hey sorry I haven't added much to the article recently. I haven't had time to be active on wikipedia much lately. I think that the article does seem ready to be moved into the mainspace. Sure we can keep adding to it still but right now I believe that it's good enough to get out of the draftspace and into the mainspace. I also agree with you that at least 500,000 in certifications is a good threshold. FanDePopLatino (talk) 06:09, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

My major concerns were the lack of defining criteria and the sources for genres. Both concerns were addressed so I have no objection to move to mainspace. I have no opinion about the minimum threshold, except that there needs to be one. --Muhandes (talk) 08:31, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

To me is perfect. But I don't know if you need to talk in the Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of best-selling Latin albums to include it in the mainspace or not.--88marcus (talk) 18:58, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

Reliability of sources for claimed sales

First of all, congratulations on the list. I don't want to be a nuisance, but there are some sources for claimed sales that could be questionable, like LOS40 (a radio network), esmas.com, meganoticias.cl and other local newspapers that talk about artists from their respective countries. According to glamourpath.com, Don Omar's The Last Don has sold 2 million copies. Also, radio station La Mega 106.9FM claims that Don Omar's King of Kings sold 6 million copies and a 2013 press release states that it sold 4.1 million copies. Should I add them? I know these are claimed sales, but this means that any news website can say anything without sources and that information would appear on this list. Brankestein (talk) 12:01, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

@Brankestein: Maybe what we could is up the number of the reliable sources needed for the claimed sales. Maybe 2-3? Pinging @Markus WikiEditor: and @Apoxyomenus: for their input. Also Brankestein, I'd like you to meet one of the Latin music project latest members who also worked on this article @FanDePopLatino: (and asking for their input as well). FanDePopLatino, this is Brankestein, another long time member of the Latin music project who worked on the legendary Despacito article. Whatever the consensus is is fine by me. Erick (talk) 22:02, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

Those sales included here and in Don Omar's articles are all inflated, far from its chart performance and certificates. The article for The Last Don already includes sales as 1 million copies which is more accurate according to its performance. The sales of King of Kings are also mega exaggerated, this CD did not appear on the charts in almost any European country and only did well in the United States, where it sold about 500,000 and in some small countries. For me, there's no reason to include them here.--Markus WikiEditor (talk) 23:49, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

Hi @Brankestein: nice to meet you. I think increasing the number of reliable sources for claimed sales, like Erick said, is a good idea but I don't think that would make a difference for those Don Omar albums because the section for best selling albums by claimed sales only is for older albums released before certification bodies for Latin American countries became available. Even the RIAA Latin certifications didn't exist until the year 2000 so that's why the albums on the claimed sales only section don't need certifications to back them up but those albums by Don Omar (as well as albums for many reggaeton artists) don't have even half a million in certified copies yet many sources inflate their sales to 5-10 million copies sold. Since those albums have 500k in certifications they can be included on the list of certified copies and claimed sales but only with 2 million copies. Any claimed sales higher than that would be inflated and unreliable. FanDePopLatino (talk) 02:37, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

For me almost any figure depends on WP:CONTEXTMATTERS. A formula we should follow are gaps with available certifications and sales, as well tenier of each release. Sometimes, we simple can ignore what is a "reliable source" if sales reported are outlier, like we already did in cases such as Thriller with anything above 70M. This, because claimed sales could be inflated by media or are circular reporting; the latter because could be thanks to cross-Wikipedia versions.

In some way, we have in game artist's own oriented markets (for example, an average Country music artist could sell millions and millions between the USA, CAN, AUS and UK, but "missing" (gap) sales may be aren't great outside the Anglosphere).

With the albums cited above, I agree with Markus and Fan have said. Mainly from Don Omar's albums of the 2000s, those claimed sales are highly inflated. Not opinion in having 2-3 sources. At least from this long-list, one reference could be enough if circumstances fit everything or most of the guidelines; their respective entries could have 2-3. Regards, --Apoxyomenus (talk) 04:31, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

Laura Pausini album

Los40 source indicates 4 million copies referring to his Italian album "Laura" not his Spanish album "Laura Pausini". I don't know if his there any sales source for his spanish album. Franlm14 (talk) 20:43, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

Albums that should be on the list (No sources by the moment)

De niña a mujer - Julio Iglesias - Certified units: 6.015 million

Emociones - Julio Iglesias - Certified units: 3.45 million

Julio - Julio Iglesias - Certified units: 3.035 million

Raíces - Julio Iglesias - Certified units: 2.84 million

La Carretera - Julio Iglesias - Certified units: 1.51 million Franlm14 (talk) 03:35, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

Papito by Miguel Bose

Most sources such as this and this cites the album being sold 2 million copies sold. It's shipped at least 500,000 copies according to its article. Inflated or fine for the articled? Erick (talk) 18:11, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

here says 2 million too, seems reasonable to me. Franlm14 (talk) 18:16, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

Tracking sales / Keep an eye

• We Broke the Rules by Aventura - 2 million (only in Europe)
• Lei, gli amici e tutto il resto by Nek - 2 million, unknown how much was the for Spanish version
• El Rey de Corazones by Manny Manuel - 3 million (Only in Puerto Rico, super inflated likely)
• Belinda - 2 million
• La Vida Es Un Ratico by Juanes - 2 million
• Timbiriche VII by Timbriche - 2 million
• Estoy Vivo by Diego Verdaguer - 2 million

More to come... Erick (talk) 04:48, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

• Amor a la Mexicana by Thalia - 3 million or 2 million
• Eros (album) by Eros Ramazzotti - 4 million, unknown for Spanish version
• Limite by Grupo Limite - 2 million
• Chiquititas soundtrack – 2 million
• Canta lo romántico de Juan Gabriel by Rocio Durcal - 2 million, article is unclear to me.
• Luna Nueva by Rosana - 2 million
• En el Ultimo Lugar del Mundo - 3 million Probably not, or just misread it as total albums sold

Erick (talk) 06:10, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

@Apoxyomenus: Just checking to see if any these sales are valid even though I highly doubt it. The only ones that seem reasonable are Amor a la Mexicana and maybe La Vida es un Ratico. Erick (talk) 06:12, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

By the moment, likely to be reasonable: La Vida es un Ratico (Juanes), Amor a la Mexicana (Thalía), and Luna Nueva (Rosana). Rosana 1999: 500K Spain, 240K Argentina, 100K Italy + 2 million copies WW... another report in 1998 (120K Argentina, 300K Spain). Disregard, it was Lunas Rotas. --Apoxyomenus (talk) 19:07, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

Those Italian (Spanish) albums by Nek and Eros, seems have between 500-600K units known in LA (claimed sales and certifications). Chiquititas seems to have a release in Brazil, where it sold about 1 million, according to one publication on Google Books. Timbiriche VII have claimed sales of 1 million in MEX alone. I didn't find anything relating to sales from the other albums, but it wasn't a deep research. --Apoxyomenus (talk) 02:47, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Thank you so much Apoxyomenus! I've added Amor a la Mexicana and La Vida es un ratico. Depending on the what the peer review says, I may or may not keep the albums that listed under reported sales only. We'll see what happens. Erick (talk) 18:18, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

• Hybrids:

Romanza (Andrea Bocelli) + Italian-Spanish releases by Laura Pausini and Eros

• Close

Vida Loca by Francisco Céspedes

--Apoxyomenus (talk) 01:08, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

Depending on the discussion I started on the overall best-selling albums list, I'm considering lowering the threshold to a million copies on this list, but requiring a total of 600,000 certified units, the equivalent of a RIAA Disco de Diamante award. Erick (talk) 04:22, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

I oppose. I think the point of this kind of lists is show the most relevant albums, that sold well in diferents spanish speaking countries. With just one million you'll find a lot of albums that just performed well just in one country, like in Spain or Mexico. Franlm14 (talk) 08:14, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

Fair enough, at the least 600,000 units is good for the certified units and having sold 2 million copies? I think my current methodology on the article should help prevent inflated sales appearing on the article. Erick (talk) 11:51, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

Yes, I also agree with Franlm14, it will make this list too long. There are countless of albums with one million, or 1.5 million, and there are a couple of others with 2 million with no certs. The same goes to the general list, there is an excessive list of albums selling 15, 16, 14 or 10 million. --Apoxyomenus (talk) 15:52, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

I agree as well, I still think we should have a minimum amount of certified units for an album to be in the lists though. 600,000 for the Latin albums list and 10 million for the overall list. That way they match the riaa certification values Erick (talk) 17:59, 24 February 2024 (UTC)