Talk:List of administrative divisions of Greater China by Human Development Index
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Question
editstrange... According to the wikipedia article on Shanghai, Shanghai's per capita GDP is 42,800 CNY in 2004.. which roughly converts to $ 5,500 USD
where did they get such a high per capita GDP?
same for Beijing and all other chinese cities/provinces— Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.13.127.17 (talk) 20:45, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
- HDI is calculated by GDP per capita by purchasing power parity, not nominal. -- ran (talk) 22:46, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
Data Accuracy Issues
editEvery single Human Development Report from mainland China uses incorrect PPP conversions (although the latest one acknowledges that the effect of the new PPP conversion factor is being researched), resulting in GDP per capita that is higher than the true values. Most of the numbers in the GDP per capita column are therefore incorrect.
The latest 2007/2008 mainland China report and the UN 2008 statistical update conflicting life expectancy, literacy, and enrollment numbers (UN update also uses the new PPP conversions). This makes it likely that the numbers given for each individual province are inaccurate (in fact, the 2007/2008 mainland China report uses life expectancy numbers that were apparently from the 2005 China Statistical Yearbook).
The numbers that are shown in the table are not all from the same year. For example, Japan's HDI is from 2004 or 2005, South Korea's HDI is from 2006, and mainland China's HDI is from 2005 (with the incorrect GDP per capita (PPP) again). Some of the provinces appear to have HDIs from the 2007/2008 report, some from the 2005 report. As well, many of the given HDI values are inconsistent with the given life expectancy, literacy, enrollment, and GDP per capita values.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Henjeng55155 (talk • contribs) 18:33, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
Data Consistency Issues
editThe HDIs for China's Administrative areas do not correspond to the HDI for China at the Global HDI entry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.180.134.72 (talk) 03:42, 14 February 2011 (UTC) Henjeng55155 (talk) 18:33, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
Article Class
editThe article is currently listed as a C-class. Shouldn't this be list-class?--Siddhartha Ghai (talk) 17:13, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
updated data?
editAny 2011 or 2012 figures available? Current listing is 2008 and 2007. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lostromantic (talk • contribs) 14:22, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
"Greater China"?
editI don't think "Greater China" is appropriate in the title of this article. "Greater China" is a term used to refer to China, Hong Kong, Macau and Taiwan as a unity. This article focuses on the PRC, with data from HK, Macau & TW only for comparison purposes, so "Greater China" in the title is misleading. I propose reverting the title to "List f Chinese administrative divisions by Human Development Index" or "List of PRC administrative divisions by Human Development Index", both of which previously served as titles for this article. Phlar (talk) 16:16, 8 September 2015 (UTC)
- What's the difference between these three places mentioned solely for comparison and these three places integrally included? It's the same. You don't make much sense. --92.74.64.34 (talk) 23:01, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
Source for the 2019 SHDI Version 4.1 Data
editCould anyone update the reference for the 2019 data? The source that these data refer to only has SHDI data till 2018, not 2019... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Temptation115 (talk • contribs) 16:46, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
Adding Singapore and Mongolia
editTypically doesn't "Greater China" also include Singapore and Mongolia? There are multiple sources listing both of these places as "Greater China". Eclipsed830 (talk) 10:08, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
- Not typically. It's a somewhat vague term, dated from when Hong Kong and Macau were British and Portuguese. It's presumably used here just to include Taiwan. CMD (talk) 11:09, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
- CMD Hmm, should Taiwan even be here then? It is strange that the article is titled "administrative divisions of Greater China", while it includes various administrative divisions of the PRC, but treats Taiwan/ROC as one single administrative division instead of also breaking it down by counties, cities, municipalities, etc. Shouldn't there be some consistency in the chart? Eclipsed830 (talk) 05:39, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
- Probably not, this was a China list until it was moved in 2015, and as you mention Taiwan has its own divisions and own internal inequalities. CMD (talk) 07:42, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
- I guess that is kind of my point though... if this is a list of "administrative divisions of Greater China", shouldn't this list also include the various administrative divisions within the ROC too? (and potentially Mongolia, Singapore, etc) This is including Taiwan within Greater China, while ignoring it's administrative divisions. Perhaps the Article should go back to displaying just the PRC administrative divisions, without the ROC at all? Eclipsed830 (talk) 16:00, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
- The core interpretations of a "Greater China" are lands controlled by the People's Republic of China (PRC) and the Republic of China (ROC), as well as the special administrative regions (SARs) of Hong Kong and Macau, controlled by the PRC, they are considered as such as these are lands which are considered to be the "homeland" of the Han Chinese people including its culture, history and traditions. I'm not sure how Mongolia and Singapore even comes into this. Mongolia is not really culturally and ethnically Chinese and Singapore just happens to have a majority Chinese immigrant population. Singapore is not a part of the Chinese "homeland", it has never been ruled by a Chinese government based in China throughout its history, it's just one of the many places around the world that the Overseas Chinese diaspora went. In comparison, the Han Chinese people, which make up 98% of the population on the island of Taiwan as well as places such as Kinmen and Penghu under ROC control, are not considered an "Overseas Chinese" diaspora like Singaporeans or other Chinese communities in Southeast Asia and the rest of the world. Therefore, the current status of the article is correct and should generally not include nor exclude anything else. 175.199.246.26 (talk) 20:20, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
- Who considers Taiwan a "homeland" of Han Chinese people? It was Europeans that sparked the first wave on Han migration to the island... and the only Mainland based government that ruled parts of Taiwan, aside from the 4 or so years of the ROC, was the Qing and they were not Han-Chinese. Much like Singapore, the Han-Chinese in Taiwan are immigrants as the result of various colonizing forces over the years. If you are going to define the ROC and PRC as the only two countries within "Greater China", my second point is that the article should at least be consistent, and break down the administrative divisions of both the PRC and ROC. This article does not have any administrative divisions of the ROC... so it isn't an article displaying the "Administrative divisions of Greater China", it's an article of the "Administrative divisions of the PRC, plus Taiwan"... it does not display any administrative divisions of Taiwan. Eclipsed830 (talk) 04:54, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
- Taiwan is considered a part of "Greater China", and this is not as a contemporary political term or view, but because it has been treated as such centuries before the PRC has even existed. Even today, Taiwan is, and still is, officially named the Republic of China. So it is China. Singapore is entirely distinct. Taiwanese Han are not Overseas Chinese. That's because when you're in Taiwan, you're in what "makes" China, a view which predates the PRC. It's no different as to "why" is Hainan or Guangdong in China. As to "who" considers it, you have to start by asking the ROC government themselves. Taiwan is just in a unique position because the ROC government got usurped and exiled themselves to the island, its only major territory they had left, along with a few tiny islands. Even so, the ROC, having moved from Nanjing to Taipei, has the same territorial claims as the PRC does, and actively claims them, including the nine-dash line and Senkaku Islands, etc. These are claims which predates both the PRC and the ROC, the predecessor "China". This remains the case even with a DPP government, with Tsai Ing-wen visiting Taiping Island. In regards to the HDI, I'm not sure as to why you wish to further break down the administrative divisions of both the PRC and ROC provinces by HDI, as it has never been done for other countries after the highest sub-national level. It would be excessively scrupulous, even if sources for them exist. 115.177.43.206 (talk) 04:38, 13 February 2022 (UTC)
- I disagree with your position on a lot of the things you mentioned in the first part of your reply. ROC does not claim effective control or jurisdiction over the Mainland Area and has not done so since democratic reforms in the early 1990's... Also a significant portion of Taiwanese people are literally labeled Mainlanders (外省人) because they are foreigners to the island... the Han migration to Taiwan is the explicit result of colonization by foreign forces... but it's really besides the point. If we are going to label this article "administrative divisions of Greater China", and we are using your definition of "Greater China" to mean the PRC and ROC, we need to include and source the administrative divisions of BOTH the PRC (done) and the ROC (not done). Since 2018, the official sub-national administrative divisions of the Republic of China are: Kaohsiung City, New Taipei City, Taichung City, Tainan City, Taipei City, Taoyuan City, Changhua County, Chiayi County, Hsinchu County, Hualien County, Miaoli County, Nantou County, Pingtung County, Taitung County, Yilan County, Yunlin County, Chiayi City, Hsinchu City, and Keelung City. Do you understand the issue I have? The article says this is "administrative divisions of Greater China" by HDI, says it includes both the PRC and ROC in "Greater China", yet only shows the administrative divisions of the PRC... so it isn't actually showing the the administrative divisions of "Greater China" by HDI, but showing only the PRC administrative divisions by HDI, plus Taiwan/ROC. It is inconsistent. I would suggest renaming the article to "List of administrative divisions of the PRC by Human Development Index" and either removing the ROC or having it as one of the "Comparable country"Eclipsed830 (talk) 05:37, 13 February 2022 (UTC)
- Taiwan is considered a part of "Greater China", and this is not as a contemporary political term or view, but because it has been treated as such centuries before the PRC has even existed. Even today, Taiwan is, and still is, officially named the Republic of China. So it is China. Singapore is entirely distinct. Taiwanese Han are not Overseas Chinese. That's because when you're in Taiwan, you're in what "makes" China, a view which predates the PRC. It's no different as to "why" is Hainan or Guangdong in China. As to "who" considers it, you have to start by asking the ROC government themselves. Taiwan is just in a unique position because the ROC government got usurped and exiled themselves to the island, its only major territory they had left, along with a few tiny islands. Even so, the ROC, having moved from Nanjing to Taipei, has the same territorial claims as the PRC does, and actively claims them, including the nine-dash line and Senkaku Islands, etc. These are claims which predates both the PRC and the ROC, the predecessor "China". This remains the case even with a DPP government, with Tsai Ing-wen visiting Taiping Island. In regards to the HDI, I'm not sure as to why you wish to further break down the administrative divisions of both the PRC and ROC provinces by HDI, as it has never been done for other countries after the highest sub-national level. It would be excessively scrupulous, even if sources for them exist. 115.177.43.206 (talk) 04:38, 13 February 2022 (UTC)
- Who considers Taiwan a "homeland" of Han Chinese people? It was Europeans that sparked the first wave on Han migration to the island... and the only Mainland based government that ruled parts of Taiwan, aside from the 4 or so years of the ROC, was the Qing and they were not Han-Chinese. Much like Singapore, the Han-Chinese in Taiwan are immigrants as the result of various colonizing forces over the years. If you are going to define the ROC and PRC as the only two countries within "Greater China", my second point is that the article should at least be consistent, and break down the administrative divisions of both the PRC and ROC. This article does not have any administrative divisions of the ROC... so it isn't an article displaying the "Administrative divisions of Greater China", it's an article of the "Administrative divisions of the PRC, plus Taiwan"... it does not display any administrative divisions of Taiwan. Eclipsed830 (talk) 04:54, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
- The core interpretations of a "Greater China" are lands controlled by the People's Republic of China (PRC) and the Republic of China (ROC), as well as the special administrative regions (SARs) of Hong Kong and Macau, controlled by the PRC, they are considered as such as these are lands which are considered to be the "homeland" of the Han Chinese people including its culture, history and traditions. I'm not sure how Mongolia and Singapore even comes into this. Mongolia is not really culturally and ethnically Chinese and Singapore just happens to have a majority Chinese immigrant population. Singapore is not a part of the Chinese "homeland", it has never been ruled by a Chinese government based in China throughout its history, it's just one of the many places around the world that the Overseas Chinese diaspora went. In comparison, the Han Chinese people, which make up 98% of the population on the island of Taiwan as well as places such as Kinmen and Penghu under ROC control, are not considered an "Overseas Chinese" diaspora like Singaporeans or other Chinese communities in Southeast Asia and the rest of the world. Therefore, the current status of the article is correct and should generally not include nor exclude anything else. 175.199.246.26 (talk) 20:20, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
- I guess that is kind of my point though... if this is a list of "administrative divisions of Greater China", shouldn't this list also include the various administrative divisions within the ROC too? (and potentially Mongolia, Singapore, etc) This is including Taiwan within Greater China, while ignoring it's administrative divisions. Perhaps the Article should go back to displaying just the PRC administrative divisions, without the ROC at all? Eclipsed830 (talk) 16:00, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
- Probably not, this was a China list until it was moved in 2015, and as you mention Taiwan has its own divisions and own internal inequalities. CMD (talk) 07:42, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
- CMD Hmm, should Taiwan even be here then? It is strange that the article is titled "administrative divisions of Greater China", while it includes various administrative divisions of the PRC, but treats Taiwan/ROC as one single administrative division instead of also breaking it down by counties, cities, municipalities, etc. Shouldn't there be some consistency in the chart? Eclipsed830 (talk) 05:39, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
