Talk:List of Sephardic Jews

Borges

> the surname borges is not jewish. > http://www.houseofnames.com/xq/asp/s.Borges/Origin.SP/sId./qx/coatofarms_details.htm However, his mother's maiden name was Azevedo, which is traditionally Sephardic. "Its Sephardic associations have suggested that Borges had Jewish ancestry, something that he has ambiguously both 'regretfully denied' and acknowledged [on a later occasion]" to quote Fishburn & Hughes' "A DICTIONARY OF BORGES"

André Suarès

Is André Suarès Jewish? --Sheynhertz_געשׁ״ך 02:57, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Babael

Just wondering how isaac babel is not ashkenazik???

Agreed - I deleted him--Brownlee 13:25, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

POV

This list, as with many other pages listing Jewish people, has the problem that it tries, many times without sources or just in speculative manner, to make a Jew almost of everyone of notice! See the discussion I had regarding Jorge Sampaio in Talk:List of Iberian Jews, reproduced below. And this refers to a case of proven Jewish ancestry! The Ogre 18:58, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Jewish ancestry does not make a Jew

People! Let us not add person to the list just because that person may or may not have some Jewish ancestry. Everybody (person) is descendent of everyone (ethnic groups) - see Most recent common ancestor! I believe a valid criteria is if the person considers himself or herself Jewish or is generally considered as such by almost everyone else. This issue has risen due to the posting of Jorge Sampaio as a Jew (post-expulsion!!!), just because he had a Jewish grandmother. He considers himself a Portuguese with a Jewish grandmother and is considered by the rest of the Portuguese as a Portuguese with a Jewish grandmother or just as a Portuguese! He may be proud of his Jewish ancestry, but he does not considerer himself a Jew! Trust me! I personally know the man! The Ogre 17:07, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

There is no doubt that he is Jewish in Jewish law; Jews therefore regard him as Jewish. The fact that he is Portuguese in Portuguese law is irrelevant - of course you can be Portuguese and Jewish. Please provide an explicit source where he says "I am not Jewish".--20.138.246.89 17:18, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

My friend... First of all let me tell you that it is a bit anoying to be talking to someone who is just an anonimous user. Why don't you became a registered user, as you seem to have good contributions to give to Wikipedia (I always assume good faith!). Second, and regarding the Sampaio "affair", I must remind you that it is Wikipedia's offial policy to have a Neutral point of view perspective on the articles. As such It is not irrelevant to say that by Portuguese criteria Jorge Sampaio is not Jewish! You see, Wikipedia is from everyone for everyone - not just Jews. Notice that I have nothing against the Jews, quite the contrary. I'm not going to revert you, but I'm adding info on him that clearly states the disputed Jewish identity of Sampaio. You wanted sources, well check your own source! In the reference made [1], that refers to an interview Sampaio gave to the Jerusalem Post on the 7th of November, 2003, it is blumtly stated:

Jerusalem Post: I understand that you have Jewish ancestry in your family. What is your personal connection to the Jewish people? Do you consider yourself to be a Jew?.

Jorge Sampaio: My grandmother belonged to a Jewish family that came from Morocco in the beginning of the 19th century. She married a non-Jewish naval officer who later was Foreign Affairs minister. I am naturally very proud of this ancestry and of all those that I call my "favorite Jewish cousins," one of whom is the president of the Lisbon Jewish Community, as I am proud of the ancestry on my non-Jewish father's side. Personally, I am agnostic, and I do not consider myself a Jew; but I am proud, as I said, of my ancestors.

Notice that he only refers to Judaism as a relgion, because ethnically he considers himself as Portuguese. Do you see my reasoning? I hope so. The Ogre 17:57, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your courtesy. I am very happy with your solution, though I repeat that there is no contradiction in being Portuguese and Jewish, as his cousins undoubtedly are. I would make the point that I am no more anonymous than you - would I be less anonymous if I created an account called "The Goblin" or something?--20.138.246.89 10:11, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Hello 20.138.246.89! Of course there is no contradiction between being Portuguese and Jew (just yesterday on the Portuguese public television there was an interview with the photographer Daniel Blaufunks - all his grandparents are German-Polish Jews, and he described himself as "core" Portuguese and a Jew!), as Sampaio's cousins undoubtedly are. I agree. Pity there isn't more of them... The tragedies of Portuguese Jewish history are well known (did you know that during the period of the Inquisition, acess to public and religious offices was often dependent of a cerificate declaring the person not to be "tainted by blood of impure nation"?). Regarding anonymity, the question is slightly different from the one you pose - you see the question is that an IP adress can be used by many different people. When I implied I was not anonymous, I was saying that my wiki-identity is "The Ogre", and when you see that user name, that's always me. Just looking at you IP adress, I don't know if you are the you I have talked before! Well... registered or not, see you around! The Ogre 14:47, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm glad somebody mentioned this. Sephardic ancestry is not the same as being a Sephardic Jew. Category:Sephardi Jews could have been broadened to People of Sephardic ancestry but that move failed. Mehmeda 00:02, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Inês Pires, Mistress of King John I of Portugal

No reason to point out that Jewish origin of Ines is disputed. And if you stated this, point out, please, by whom it is disputed? There is barely an outstanding converso aristocrat whose Jewish identity is not distorted by Iberian genealogists who tried to present their leaders as of unblemished origin. The same with a lot of authors outside of peninsula. Read, for example, in Spanish and English available biographies of the great Fernandez de Cordoba. Only in special works on conversos his Jewish origin is mentioned. The silence is a pure anti-Semitism, of course, because the same authors eager to show any other ethnic backgrounds but such is a reality.User: Tracadero.3.11.07

I'd reconsider these too-broad lists...

It looks like this article and other too broad lists involving HUGE numbers of Jews (List of Ashkenazi Jews, etc.) were started, worked on for a little while, and then abandoned. Obviously this list will never come close to even being 50% complete, so I ask: what is the point of even having this list when we already have more specific Jew lists to cover most or all of these people? --WassermannNYC 02:09, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Mizrahi and Sephardi

Regarding Paula Abdul, an anonymous editor deleted her because she is of Mizrahi origin. Editor Newport reverted him arguing "since when are Mizrahi Jews not Sephardi? Are they Ashkenazi?" Well... I tend to agree with the anonymous editor, since that in the Mizrahi Jews article it is said:

Many speakers, especially in Israel, identify all non-Ashkenazi Jews as Sephardim. The reason for this usage is that most Mizrahi communities use much the same religious ritual as Sephardim proper (i.e. descendants of the Jews expelled from the Iberian Peninsula, that is, modern Spain and Portugal), and can therefore be described as Jews of the Sephardic rite, though not as Sephardi Jews. This broader definition of "Sephardim" is common in religious circles, especially those associated with the Shas political party.

Others prefer to differentiate between Sephardim proper and Mizrahim. There is some disagreement on whether Iberian-descended Sephardim from Eastern countries (e.g. Turkish Jews) should be described as "Mizrahim" or not.

In many Arab countries there was a social distinction between Judeo-Romance-speaking Sephardim arriving after the expulsion from Spain in 1492, plus the ones expelled by order of King Manuel I of Portugal in 1497, and the older Arabic-speaking communities. The latter were often referred to by themselves as "Musta'arabim" or by the Sephardim as "Moriscos" (equivalent to "Moors" in English).

What does everyone think about this? Thank you. The Ogre 12:16, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Firstly, it is against policy to cite one Wikipedia article as a source in another. We need reliable sources that Mizrachi Jews are not Sephardim. I suggest that they are, in the broad sense. Otherwise, we would have to say that only German-speaking Jews from Western and Central Europe who daven Minhag Ashkenaz are Ashkenazim, and Yiddish-speaking Jews from Eastern Europe, especially those who daven Minhag Polin, are not.--R613vlu 16:30, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

One has to distinguish Sefardic Jews - originating from Spain ,and Jews of Sefardic or Oriental rite .Traditionally most of the Italian Jews who were not Asheknazite were also considered Sefardic , even those who were not from Spanish ascendence. Obviously the Jews from Irak (Babylon),from Kurdistan , Caucasus ,Georgia , Buhara , Yemen were not originating from Spain and were not of Sefardic culture (ladino speaking , with Spanish or Iberic family namesetc) But their religious rite and the Hebrew pronounciation are nearer to those of the Sefardic . Now in Israel all these Oriental ("mizrahi" ) communities are called 'sefardic' following the rite. They are also represented in the World organization of the Sefardic Jews.The Ethopian Jews are also not Ashkenazite , but they are not generally considered Sefardic , their rite was also much different from the Sefardic rite.89.138.209.47 (talk) 01:56, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Rita Hayworth?

Rita Hayworth, actress, dancer; mother Irish and father Gipsy! -84.250.158.224 (talk) 19:02, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

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To be deleted

Hello this list is very similar to "list of Iberian Jews" and other list of Jews by regions. This list is very incomplete and doesn't make any sense.--Vanlister (talk) 10:28, 14 August 2021 (UTC)