Talk:List of French military leaders

Candidates

Some good candidates for the article:

• Raymond IV of Toulouse
• Godfrey of Bouillon
• Jean Bureau
• Claude-Louis-Hector de Villars
• Louis Joseph, duc de Vendôme
• Louis-Joseph de Montcalm
• Jean-Baptiste Donatien de Vimeur, comte de Rochambeau
• André Masséna
• Joachim Murat
• Nicolas Jean de Dieu Soult

- Carl Logan 22:01, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

You're more than welcome to add them. Obviously this list is incomplete and biased, and in a sense always will be.UberCryxic 18:41, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

I was actually hoping someone else would do it on account of me being rather lazy, but we must all suffer disappointments. One more thing is if I should add Raymond IV of Toulouse than I think we must add a new identity colour because southern France was culturally more separated than Normandy and just as independent. Carl Logan 19:01, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

One more thing Maruice de Saxe wasn't strictly speaking French but half german, half swedish Carl Logan 19:04, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Ethnically speaking, Napoleon was an Italian. Citizenship status and a sense of belonging to a certain identity have been used to classify all post-William commanders as "French," even though it is up to debate on just when that word can securely be used to describe a particular group of people.UberCryxic 01:22, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

I have serious issues with Gallic commanders like Brennus being called "French". This is certainly not historically acurate, as Brennus would be more accurately considered a great Celtic commander. Although the two catagorries are not necessarily mutually exclusive, it is terribly inaccurate to refer to Brennus as "French". He did not exist as part of a French nation, nor did he speak any language resembling French. I recommend we remove him and Vercingetorix from the list. Easter rising 13:22, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

"Ethnically speaking" seems to me a quite weak argument; by the time of William the Conqueror, the people of nordic origin were living in France for six generations (with intermarriage). So, "ethnically speaking", General Colin Powell is African, General McArthur was a Scot. Nobody argues like that. Concerning Napoleon: true, France acquired Corsica only a year before his birth (although it had already been a French possession earlier in history). However, take the case of George Washington as an example: he was born in a British colony, as a British citizen, to British parents. Yet, nobody would have the idea to argue that he was a British statesman/military leader. In my view, this discussion misses the point. Chevalier de la charrette 15:36, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

There are usually always problems with these classifications, that's why they have been labelled "Gallic" and not "French."UberCryxic 18:57, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Suggestion for notes on André Masséna: "Highly successful general of republican and Napoleonic France, Massena was one of Napoleon's ablest Marshals. His defence of Switzerland, and thus France, during the War of the Second Coalition is considered a tactical and strategic masterpiece." I put republican there to signify that Massena was an important general already before Napoleon came into power in 1800, but will not object much if you feel that it should go. It might give too much weight to his relatively short career as a revolutionary soldier outside Napoleon's sphere-of-influence. Obviously this a vote for Massena to be included. Flambergius 16:15, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

I'd have no problem with including Massena, who is more than worthy. Go ahead and put him in.UberCryxic 03:33, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

I added Marshal Ney to the list, he was one of the most brilliant and charismatic leaders under Napoleon. Chevalier de la charrette 15:13, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Ney doesn't belong on this page. In terms of strategic vision, he was definitely not on par with Napoleon's other two marshals cited here. HIs bravery, in Russia especially, is undeniable, but he does not qualify as a great military leader. The Napoleonic marshal who would fit in perfectly alongside Davout and Massena is undoubtedly Jean Lannes Axel 16:03, 24 August 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by AxelW (talk • contribs)

Well I happen to agree on both the strategic vision and great military leader, but this list isn't made up of brilliant or great military leaders, it is made up of notable French military leaders and Ney is notable, which is why he was added. Carl Logan 16:40, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Name

The article as been moved from "List of famous French military leaders" to "List of French military leaders". I think this title is a little misleading as the article will only cover a small number of outstanding French military leaders. My suggestion would be to move the article to "List of notable French military leaders". Another suggestion would be to replace military leaders with military commanders. Carl Logan 18:33, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree with this move. Good job.UberCryxic 01:35, 20 March 2007 (UTC)