Talk:Lidia Bastianich/Archive 1

Ciupicat's preferred version of the article

Ciupicat, I do not wish to edit war with you, but I really wish you would stop reverting to this version of the Lidia Bastianich article. Here are the problems with the version you seem to prefer:

• It contains no wikilinks.
• It contains no paragraphs or sections.
• It contains no references
• Parts of your text have been copied from a website or other electronic sources. Some of the text comes from here: [1] and here: [2]. We must not infringe on the copyrights held by these websites.
• It contains undue weight and original research about her ethnicity, nationality and heritage.

I freely acknowledge that the more wiki-friendly version I've been reverting to is in dire need of work. But your edits are making the article worse, not better.

I think there is possibly some valuable and useful information contained in your preferred version; but we should incorporate those pieces into the wikified version and paraphrase and reformat them to make them more encyclopedic. Regards, The Fat Man Who Never Came Back 17:03, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:LidiaBastianich.jpg

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BetacommandBot 07:00, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Croat origin

She's of Croat origin.
Just look at the Croatian phone book [3], and type "Baštijanić", "Bastijanić" and "Bastianić". Same surname, same area of origin.Kubura (talk) 13:00, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Kubura, that's her husband... Plantago (talk) 11:45, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Ex-husband, actually. Scarletsmith (talk) 03:29, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

That said, her family background includes Italian, Croatian (paternal grandparents), and Istro-Romanian (maternal grandparents). See the Lidia Bastianich bio page from IstriaNet.org for more information.Scarletsmith (talk) 04:44, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

The only reason why she prefers to be called "Italian" is because no one cares about Croatian cuisine. Only Americans can believe that she is Italian or of Italian origin. The real Italians know that she is Croatian and that Croatians have nothing to do with the Italians. In fact I would recommend you read a bit of history buy yourself a book to find out what the Croatians did to the Italians ex FOIBE.

Though I've never met her, she is the first cousin to my dad's cousin's wife. Her maternal grandparents were born in my father's village. There are no ethnic Italians in this village historically. Her maiden name "Motika" has long roots in Istra; "Maticchio" does not. However, in order to be a certain ethnicity, you have to feel that you are a part of that community. That LB primarily identifies as Italian is her choice. I don't force someone to be Croat who doesn't feel as such. In any event, her loss.

Redina

WHAT A MASQUERADER THIS WOMAN IS, SHE IS CROATIAN NOT ITALIAN. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.197.229.96 (talk) 20:12, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

It's not a masquerade. Her family lived in Istria, which was an Italian province between the two World Wars; many Istrians identify as "Italian" as well as "Croatian". In Lidia's case, she has Italian, Croatian, Istrian, and Romanian ancestry in her background. Check the "Ethnicity" section of the Istria page for more details... Scarletsmith (talk) 00:12, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

YOU SERIOUSLY SOUND LIKE A LIDIA GROUPIE, THIS ISN'T A PAGE FOR OBSESSED FANS —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.163.173.127 (talk) 17:52, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Who's obsessed? Your entire rambling point seems to be that if Lidia is from a Croatian country, she can't be Italian. In fact, nothing could be further from the truth. There's nothing wrong with being any particular nationality; Mrs. Bastianich simply prefers to self-identify as Italian/Istrian/American, not Croatian. Please respect that. Scarletsmith (talk) 22:08, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Page now in Semi-Protected Status

Because certain posters who refuse to post with Wiki user IDs have been vandalizing the main article, I have requested it be placed in semi-protected status. What this means is that Wiki users without Wiki IDs will not be able to edit pages. Hopefully this will cut down on the insanity of the "Croatian, not Italian" ethnic boosters. Scarletsmith (talk) 05:57, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

And, of course, as soon as the page comes out of semi-protected status, the "Croatian, not Italian" ethnic boosters barge right back in. So, let me repeat the facts regarding Lidia's own self-identified ethnic status as succinctly as I can:

• Mrs. Bastianich was born in Istria after WW2, when it was part of Yugoslavia. That much is not in dispute, and Lidia herself has never denied such.
• That said, her family roots are Italian, her parents self-identified as Italian, and (when Istria was an Italian province) the Motikas used the Italianized version of their name--Matticchio. This is also not in dispute, and sources exist to verify this.
• It is, thus, improper to characterize Mrs. Bastianich's origins as "Croatian-American", since this is not how Mrs. Bastianich chooses to self-identify. (It is akin to calling Ukrainians "Russians" just because they used to be part of the Soviet Union, or calling a Serbian "Croatian" just because he/she happened to live in Croatia when Croatia declared its independence.) It is more accurate to use "Istrian-American" (which many from that region still use). Mrs. Bastianich prefers to identify with her Italian roots: She uses "Matticchio" as her maiden name and more often than not self-identifies as "Italian-American". This is easily verified through her own interviews, her own books, and sources from the net.
• Mrs. Bastianich raised her children to celebrate their Italian heritage; her son Joseph is a partner in many Italian restaurants owned by both Lidia and longtime family friend Mario Batali, while her youngest child Tanya has a Ph.D in Italian art history and even married an Italian-born lawyer. Several sources cited in this entry, including this one from the New York Times describes how Lidia's children and grandchildren all speak Italian fluently and how family get-togethers are often bilingual. Several episodes of Lidia's shows have featured segments where Lidia converses with her mother, her children, and even her grandchildren in Italian, and Lidia translates for the camera what the conversation is about, or even vice versa (in one episode of Lidia's Italy, Lidia is discussing "gnudi"--from the Italian word for "naked", it is pasta fillings prepared and eaten without being stuffed into pasta--and toddler Julia Manuali, who was helping "Nonne Lidia" shape the gnudi as Lidia explained the concept of gnudi to the camera, interjected "it's naked" or "it's just naked" frequently when Lidia would use the word "gnudi"). Many of the segments of Lidia's Italy featuring Lidia visiting (and cooking with) Italian friends/relatives who live in the various Italian places Lidia toured as part of preparing for this show are also done virtually bilingual, since some of the Italians featured in these segments have only a limited command of the English language (so Lidia must translate as they go). Again, this is easily verifiable on the net and from her own books and TV shows, so removing paragraphs about her family speaking Italian and segments on her shows containing heavy Italian language is just not appropriate.

Lastly, I shouldn't have to remind anyone here of the rules regarding biographical entries about living persons, but it looks like some anonymous posters need a refresher course in WikiRules:

Thanks in advance for everyone's cooperation in keeping this article true to WikiStandards. Scarletsmith (talk) 21:53, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

IT SOUNDS AS IF SOMEONE HAS A CRUSH ON LIDIA —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.59.137.98 (talk) 20:05, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Scarletsmith, can you quote any sources as to how Mrs. Bastianich identifies herself. BTW, it is no wonder that her family used the Italianized version during the Italian reign - during Mussolini's fascist regime all the Slavic names got italianized and even speaking the Slavic languages was illegal. Also, the Lidia Bastianich bio page from IstriaNet.org says that "both her paternal and maternal roots harken back to the region between Labin (Albona) and Pazin (Pisino)" - a part of Istria with virtually no Italians. --Nylad (talk) 06:07, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

What part of the articles in the "references" section don't provide enough source material to satisfy this obsessive compulsion of these IP-only fanatic posters? It's Lidia's "Italian-American" this, Lidia's "Italian-American" that, her latest show is called "Lidia's Italy", her family speaks Italian (verifiable in many articles provided), Lidia does not use Motika but rather Matticchio, etc. Nobody denies she was born in Istria, but it's easily verifiable through any number of public and visible sources that she prefers to self-identify as Italian. That said, I'm not going to fight the insane Croatianistas; let them trash the article and make it as unusable as most of the articles on living persons. I've tried to be nice, but I've finally reached my own breaking point. Somebody else is going to have to take up the flag for this one. Scarletsmith (talk) 03:42, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I strongly suggest reading the guideline page regarding biographies of living persons. Including private residence information would certainly violate the guidelines and editing in slanderous and harmful material would as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:BLP —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.193.246.34 (talk) 16:09, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Song on TV series

Does anyone know what song they use on her TV show for the credits?69.208.55.91 (talk) 22:47, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

The song is composed for the show.

Is Lidia Croatian?

No. She doesn't publicly consider herself Croatian, and no media identify her as such. However, as a compromise, I wrote a lead sentence stating she is "an American chef born in Istria," which I feel is both factual and politically neutral, since "Istria" has no national connotations. The IP editor who has been edit warring on this article for weeks (though, in all fairness, I have been revert warring as well) promptly changed Istria to Croatia,[4]--which I find pointless and misleading. I know how the IP editor feels about this, but I would like to seek input from other editors. --The Fat Man Who Never Came Back (talk) 23:56, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

When pressed, she does acknowledge her multiethnic roots. Motika has long roots in Istra among Croats; "Maticchio" is a modern Italianized version of her name. Her maternal grandma comes from the same village as my dad - she is the first cousin to my dad's cousin's wife. This village does not have a historically population of Italians. I've had the opportunity to review family records going back to the 1400s and all names are in their Slavic original (albeit with "CH" given that these records were under Hapsburg control at the time). Her mother's maiden name is of Croat origin; her maiden name is of Croat origin. Her ex-husband's name is of Croat origin. In 1928, the then fascist government forced all Croats and Slovenes to take on Italian surnames. Our surname was changed in this period. During this period some began to identify as Italians, similar to some people who settle in America and in one generation are "Americans" and identify as such as an ethnic group. That she prefers to primarily identify as an Italian is her choice. Historically incorrect but ethnic identity is also something that someone has to "feel".

Hope this clarifies things a bit.

Redina

Lidia's father's family have been in Pula (once Italian Pola) for generations, in the same home. Lidia's mother,Erminia, lived almost her whole life, until coming to America, down the road from Vittorio's home in Pola and was an Italian school teacher until the day they left. If one references the istria.net site Lidia's maternal grandparents actually come from a town that would really be considered Istro-Romanian. The aforementioned site also correctly states that Lidia's paternal family has long roots in Pula. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ciupicat (talk • contribs) 18:06, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

There seems to be some sort of conspiracy against the truth by 2 individuals here. They refuse to recognize that this woman is a Croat and not an Italian. The masquerade continues. Anybody who attempts to give light to the situation is silenced.--24.56.137.185 (talk) 00:30, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

The article you sighted states she is of mixed ethnicity and she returned to the land she left, that same piece of land at first being Yugoslavia and now Croatia. Look back at history and you will see that same piece of land was part of the Austrain-Hungarian Empire, after which is was a part of Italy. Why are you fighting so hard to change something that you could not possibly know? A person's ethnicity, particularly from a place like Istria, is something you feel. Even today there are Italian schools in Istria and some of Lidia's cousins who reamined chose to send their children to those schools. It is something you feel inside. Having said that, the source you cite in no way states Lidia's ethnicity. It simply says she left Istria and came back to the land where she was born. If anything, it says she is of mixed ethnicity. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ciupicat (talk • contribs) 13:31, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icBriPHOS-g. This is a good video/song that shows the strong patriotism of the Istrian community and those who retain their Italian ethnicity. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ciupicat (talk • contribs) 22:18, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Father of the Children

Lidia's children are mentioned quite a lot, and hold various positions in her empire, and are known for their own activities as well. What of the father? I assume Lidia is divorced. Any information? Proxy User (talk) 02:43, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Lidia divorced in 1997 and Felix Bastianich still lives in Queens, New York. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ciupicat (talk • contribs) 02:14, 27 January 2009 (UTC)