Talk:Libera (choir)

Robert Prizeman RIP

We must make belated mention of the passing of Libera's founder, Robert Prizeman. He will be very sadly missed by all Libera enthusiasts, fans, members, etc. I'm sure the two guys who have taken over the reigns (both ex members) will continue to do an excellent job and grow Libera still further as they strive to release more music and travel further across the globe giving concerts. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.205.192.95 (talk) 21:57, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

Discography

I tried to gather as much info on their discography as possible before we merge it with the article. I included albums released as CDDA only.

under St. Philips Choir Sing For Ever (BBC, REB 692, 1988)

under Angel Voices New Day (BMG, 261280, 1990)

Angel Voices (QTV, 018, 1992, reissued in 1993)

under The St Philips Boy's Choir Angel Voices (Music Club, MCCDX 001, 1993, reissued on October 30, 2000) Angel Voices 2 (Music Club, MCCD 259, August 12, 1996) Angel Voices 3 (Music Club, MCCDX 019, October 13, 1997)

under Libera Libera (Warner Classics, 3984-29053-2, October 25, 1999) Luminosa (Warner Classics, 40117, September 03, 2001) Complete Libera (2 CD set of Libera and Luminosa; Warner Classics, 0927490502, 2003) Free (EMI Classics, 557823-2, November 01, 2004) Visions (EMI Classics, 339862 2, November 07, 2005) Angel Voices (EMI Classics, TOCP70100, November 06, 2006)

If any of the information given above is incorrect pls correct it. --212.200.205.47 17:24, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

The relationship between Libera and St Philips is clearly established by their own parish and diocese. http://www.southwark.anglican.org/bridge/0605/0605p06_07.pdf —Preceding unsigned comment added by RyGT (talk • contribs) 20:10, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

“It’s a good noise” Jean Washington agreed “But what really matters is that it’s an inclusive noise. It would be easy for the congregation to sit back and enjoy a performance, but they join in too”. “We’ve always had a good choir” said Patrick “Robert Prizeman was Director of Music here before I came. The first opening up into wider things came around 20 years ago when they were asked to back a pop singer – I suppose Libera and its distinct sound just grew from that.” “Their success is due largely to Robert – he sets very high standards and gets extreme loyalty and commitment from the boys. And as a church we benefit from that. “ —Preceding unsigned comment added by RyGT (talk • contribs) 20:11, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

It’s when the service begins that you see and hear the second reason why St Philip’s is different – the choir. Men and boys in white robes - St Philip’s choir equals the ‘boy-band’ Libera, present and past members (see facing page) – and their sound is quite something! —Preceding unsigned comment added by RyGT (talk • contribs) 20:14, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

The origins of Libera stem from Robert’s arrival at St Philip’s Norbury as Choir Director 20-plus years ago. There was already an established choir but with Robert came a new focus.

Most of the boys don’t come from church backgrounds but being part of Libera means being part of the St Philip’s Church Choir – and singing regularly on Sundays. “You can only sing well if you sing regularly and Sundays are just as important as the twiceweekly rehearsals. And of course it can be ‘evangelistic’ as parents, grandparents come to church to support the boys”. —Preceding unsigned comment added by RyGT (talk • contribs) 20:17, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Note: Canon Patrick Washington retired as the Rector of St Phillip's Church at Norbury in 2010 due to ill health. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.42.196.146 (talk) 16:54, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Privacy

Conjecture concerning schools attended by Libera boys deleted on privacy grounds. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.137.184.125 (talk) 21:15, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Cleanup

Hi

I've browsed through the article, and in my opinion it needs a cleanup. This is partly because some of it is worded in a promotional way and partly because some of it documents events that are not notable. The relevant Wikipedia policies are WP:NPOV and WP:N. I do not write this because I don't like the group or because I don't believe that is a good project, but because I think the article currently fails to meet the standards of an encyclopedia. I am going to make some changes that will seem harsh. Feel free to undo them, but please take notice of them, as I will try to use them to point out the changes that need to be made, but should preferably be made by some of the regular contributors to the article, who are more knowledgeable about the group. Best regards, benjamil (talk) 11:17, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Page blanking

Hi

I've noticed that this page has been blanked since my last visit, apparently by someone who is associated with the group's management. Although I welcome the contribution of a presumably knowledgeable editor, outright deletion of the article is probably not the best option, and unless persuaded by argument, I won't support it. Please review Wikipedia's deletion policy before making any new attempts to delete all content from the article.

Although there are several issues with the article as it currently reads, I am positive that the group is sufficiently notable to have a Wikipedia article. Promotional wording and poor sources were the main issues that I found. Please see the guidelines for verifiable information to get an idea of what kind of sources are appropriate. If the IP-editor is indeed connected with Libera management, I would suspect that there exists a scrapbook or clipping book which documents the group's history in good reliable sources.

Feel free to delete specific passages and smaller parts of the article. All deletions can be restored. Whether they will be, will be decided by the consensus of the community. Best regards, benjamil (talk) 20:52, 11 July 2012 (UTC) Note: I've copied this post to the IP editor's talk page.

Hi, I would like to help.

I am a bit annoyed to find that my careful editing of your page has been removed. I am a regular European Libera concert goer, and also keep up to date with what they have been doing. I am willing to try again with your backing. Libera have been doing so much recently that it is unfair not to keep this page up to date. Alternatively why not direct readers to Libera's own website which keeps people updated as well. For example, the group will be giving concerts in the Channel Islands where I live next month.......

I have now worked extremely hard and modified the page to include a list of concerts and TV appearances that Libera have made since becoming a Registered Charity in the UK in early 2007. I have removed old references to same from the main text. By doing this anyone can update the list easily keeping to the standard format used. I hope this is acceptable. There are numerous references on Libera's main official website and others that proves this new list that I have written!

Meanwhile, here's to the forthcoming concerts in the Channel Islands!

L-R-D-EU (talk) 15:16, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

Hi.

I believe that there are some things about your post that highlights what I've reacted to.

Libera have been doing so much recently that it is unfair not to keep this page up to date.

There are numerous references on Libera's main official website and others that proves this new list that I have written!

The first statement, in my opinion, should not be true for Wikipedia. The encyclopedia should be fair in the sense that the rules for what topics should be covered and what information should be included in the coverage are applied as equally as possible to all topics. (I hope you do not feel that I'm condescending, I'm just trying to make clear how I interpret your statement, and I'm not sure how well acquainted you are with WP policies). That there is much new information about a topic does not mean that all of it should be included. It should only be included if there is verifiable information in reliable sources. Look, for example, at the use of references in the article about Madonna. Although clearly in another league, nearly every sentence in that article has a reference, and hardly any of them are to Madonna's official site. For a group of more similar renown, see The Cranberries' page. Mention in third party sources is the main criterion for inclusion of information in Wikipedia. This serves as a comment to the second statement as well. Information about upcoming events should only be included if it has received media coverage or otherwise been mentioned in third party sources.

When I first read this article, I also disapproved of the language, which I felt was sometimes close to advertising. The language in encyclopedia articles should be neutral. I understand that several of the earlier authors are great fans of the group. This is good, because it means you probably know more about them than other people. However, it is important (sadly, one might say) that the positive emotions do not spill over into the encyclopedia's coverage. After all, this isn't a fanzine, is it?

I suspected that my first edits might be seen as harsh. I'll try to use some tags this time around, to show where I believe that it is necessary to improve the article in order to comply with Wikipedia's policies and standards. I do not believe that I am infallible. If you disagree with me strongly, feel free to request a comment.

Best regards, benjamil (talk) 20:23, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

Hi.

Thanks for your input. I can assure you that all of Libera's extensive Tours, concerts, and TV appearances are well documented in various third party websites, usually those websites that are official websites of either the TV programme itself, the concert venue, etc, etc. There are far too many of them to include links to all of them every time one is mentioned, that's the problem. Updating a page like this one so that it remains accurate is time consuming in the first instance without having to link every single mention to something. The problem here is that if the page is to be updated by those of us who do attend Libera's concerts and view them on TV every time they appear, as well as keeping a check on their own official website, then we are going to want to include what we have included to date, that is why I came up with the idea of the generic simple list of concerts etc. Obviously we as fans are going to want to make the page so that it attracts even more Libera enthusiasts.......

I do see what you are saying, and I agree there are further improvements to be made, but I do think that my efforts today to write that list of Libera's events since 2007 when they became a Charity. should definitely stay.......and be added to as time goes along.

Regards, L-R-D-EU (talk) 20:45, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

Hi again

I've done some work on the article now, using the sources that I found during a quick google search. Although I acknowledge your point about it being tedious work to document small pieces of information, that's the way it has to be done - it is one of Wikipedia's WP:Five pillars. I'll share some tips about how I think improvement can come about:

• Positive wording should be put in the voice of those who have made the statements, for instance: "John Doe has described their musical style as "such and such".(REFERENCE)"
• Sources frequently have lots of information. For an example, see this guide to mining a source. By naming a source (you'll see some examples in my recent edits), it's easy to re-use it. When the full source, for instance <ref name="ThisRef">{{cite web|author=John Doe|title=Something|work=Another thing|publisher=Some company|date=Sometime|accessdate=This time}}</ref>, has been entered once in the text, it can later be re-used by entering <ref name="ThisRef"/>.
• When citing self-published sources, the reader should be notified about this in plain text, using phrases like "according to the group (or its webpage, or its co-director's web page)..."

Other than that, please bear in mind that an article such as this shouldn't necessarily be exhaustive when it comes to minute details. From both the encyclopedia's and the group's view, it might be better if the list of performances covers the most important performances the group has had, using a phrase like "among numerous performances, the group has appeared at..."

Best regards, benjamil (talk) 22:39, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

Hi. I'll try to link all my contributions to reliable sources during the next few weeks (and this is going to take some considerable time and effort to do, so please bear with me, given that I shall be away on holidays as well in the next couple of months!). Having discussed this with a few other Libera fans we do feel that a comprehensive but simple list of the events and appearances that Libera have made is important, because this is the only place where such a reliable list exists at present. The information is out there on the various websites but takes a lot of reading, whilst here it is a simple list which readers can use to refer back to the other sites once they have been linked of course! Thanks. L-R-D-EU (talk) 09:40, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Sources

I've found it surprisingly somewhat hard to find the kind of sources that are recommended for use on Wikipedia. You probably know of several others. Offline sources are perfectly okay, as long as they are third party. However, album covers are sufficient for discographies (see WP:DISCOGSTYLE for further information). It could be helpful if such sources were listed here. I'll begin by putting up a small list. We could start to see if we can find some of the references currently missing in the article in one of these:

• World famous boys choir "Libera" performs in Chatham
• Angel Voices - Libera In Concert
• Libera: British Boys Choir Concert
• World Famous Boy Choir Libera to Play Clifton Cathedral
• New Dawn Review
• The Life Of A Choir Boy
• Libera Peace Review
• Some details about "Songs of Praise"'s 50-year anniversary at BBC, featuring Libera
• An article in the Toronto section of Canada's leading newspaper, The Toronto Star
• Croydon Guardian: Libera performs for George Bush jr. etc.
• Your Local Guardian: Libera member gets scholarship
• Philippine airlines feature Libera as part of their in-flight music programme — Preceding unsigned comment added by Benjamil (talk • contribs) 09:13, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
• A BBC Music review of Libera's album "The Christmas album"

Several "Songs of Praise" episodes featuring Libera (a Google search using the string <"songs of praise" bbc libera> will return plenty more):

• "Arundel"
• "Young musicians"
• "Choristers"
• "Stained Glass"
• Palm Sunday 2012

Of these, the rather critical BBC review is the strongest source, since it's published by a well-known and authoritative news source, but I consider all of these to be OK third party sources. I haven't got the time to follow up on everything today, but maybe one of the other editors is up to the challenge? Best regards, benjamil (talk) 22:57, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

Hi. Libera fans in general disapprove of the BBC's rather poor reviews of the groups recent album releases.......(!) But you are right that each Songs of Praise programme has it's own subpage and downloadable fact sheet with it, so I will try to use these as much as possible. L-R-D-EU (talk) 09:44, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I can imagine. :-) Still, as it's out there, some of the points should probably be included when describing the reception of the albums. Also, maybe it will be possible to find some billboard statistics - do you know where they would be published. I guess they will be a natural contrast to the critical reviews. After all we're striving for WP:BALANCE.

Best regards, benjamil ^talk/_edits 12:52, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Attn: benjamil

Obviously you haven't bothered to research Libera very well or you'd realise the efforts that have been made by a number of contributors to this page during the past few months!

I'd like to confirm that I too am a Libera fan, and that I can concur fully with everything that currently exists within this Libera page on Wikipedia as being accurate and fair. Libera do produce what is an unique sound and I'd invite you to sample that sound before removing any other major block of text from the page without due reason. Respect the effort that has been made, please!

86.42.201.175 (talk) 17:56, 16 July 2012 (UTC)HJ

Hi.

I'm glad that you have contributed to Wikipedia. Please see my response above, as it explains the issues I've had. Also, no text is irretrievably lost. The article's history contains all of your work. I respect the amount of time you and others have devoted to this, but I sincerely believe that it did not measure up to the quality demanded from a good encyclopedic article.

Best regards, benjamil (talk) 20:27, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

List of Members

The membership of the choir is constantly in flux. Is it really worth our effort to try to keep the list up to date? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.245.177.21 (talk) 12:50, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

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Initial redirects

It should be mentioned at the header that "Libera" is a Roman goddess who was latter renamed Prosepina and is equivalent to Greek Persephone.

I believe there is a wiki page on Prosepina that would be a good redirect. 120.22.140.141 (talk) 03:29, 7 November 2022 (UTC)