Talk:Lavender marriage

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 19 August 2020 and 4 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Trueve24. Peer reviewers: Zzzeee2000.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 02:18, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Various

"the phrase itself came into colloquial use during the 1920s:" I think the use of "lavender" in this sense is more modern than that, 1950s or later, but I could be wrong. The older phrase for a marriage without sex (for whatever reasons— one never asks) is a "white marriage" (French mariage à blanc) --Wetman 07:12, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Oscar Wilde's marriage must have been one heck of a "deception to hide [his] homosexuality" - they had two children.

- Astatine 23:33, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

And the Garland - Minelli marriage produced Liza. Soshesaid 19:59, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

The wiki article on Milton makes no suggestion whatsoever that his marriage was 'lavender'. A source needs to be added either here or on that page to justify his presence on this list.

This reference is moved here: Theobald, Stephanie (2002-11-13). "My husband and him: Stephanie Theobald wonders why so many married men are swinging both ways". The Guardian. Retrieved 2007-04-28. ---Blue Tie 11:01, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

The Harold Nicolson and Vita Sackville-West thing does NOT make sense. People don't change sexuality like that, and if they were engaging in same-sex love affairs, that would make them still bi. So, erm. Clarification, maybe? --76.89.173.117 (talk) 18:16, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Numerous BLP issues

Under the policies for biographies of living persons, this stuff has to have a rock-solid source or it's potential libel and must be deleted. The references to living persons I deleted were all completely unsourced. Add a reliable source for each one you add back, or don't add it at all. This article needs a ton of work, but that part can't wait.

Wellspring (talk) 00:21, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Removed another possible BLP; the source cited was a gossip column and didn't appear to meet the reliability criteria. I also removed a spoiler warning. The pop culture references has a potential to accumulate but for now seems illustrative. Wellspring (talk) 17:24, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Spoilers

I've removed part of the Mad Men reference as it contained a spoiler for anyone who isn't completely caught up, especially as this is a rather unexpected article to run into a spoiler on! Arianna (talk) 00:53, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Illegal?

Is such a marriage formally illegal? Is it in practice? Andries (talk) 07:54, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

hi, Andries! i'm no lawyer, but i don't think lavender marriages are illegal, since by its definition sounds completely inside laws. normally it would be used to hide sexualities, i don't know if all this marriages were opcional or not, however i can't see a clear crime at its existence. hope it made sense! xx Cyberlesbo (talk) 10:57, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

Friends

on one episode of the tv show "friends", it is revealed that Pheobe had married a gay figure skater, but the details r foggy to me, but could someone look into this and add it NTC TNT (talk) 06:21, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

I remember this episode, but it turned out that he wasn't gay and wanted to try to make the marriage work. I don't know if it really belongs in this article. Arianna (talk) 04:12, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

Phoebe married the ice skater because he was Canadian and assumed he was gay. He came to her 3 years later because he needed a divorce to marry a woman. Turns out he was never gay and had hid his heterosexuality because of his profession. 69.125.134.86 (talk) 23:49, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

Real-life examples

Most of the real-life examples offered are questionable. A lavender marriage is a mixed-sex marriage contracted only to conceal the sexuality of either of both of the spouses. If they have a close relationship then it is not a marriage of convenience nor a lavender marriage. The marriage of convenience article defines it as a "a marriage contracted for reasons other than the reasons of relationship, family, or love".

• Harold Nicolson and Vita Sackville-West clearly had a relationship. Theirs was an open marriage, not a marriage of convenience.
• Linda Lee Thomas was Cole Porter's confidant and companion before their marriage, and they were "genuinely devoted to each other".
• I'm not familiar with Katharine Cornell or Guthrie McClintic, but being devoted to each other does not sound like a marriage of convenience.
• No source is given for Cyril Ritchard and Madge Elliot. The Cyril Ritchard article does not say he was gay, moreover it says that they had a child.

I will remove these example, leaving only Rock Hudson and Phyllis Gates. Verbcatcher (talk) 19:06, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

I've left Cornell & McClintic in, and removed the other three.Verbcatcher (talk) 19:12, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

• I removed the Bette White/Liberace reference. It does not identify their relationship as a Lavender Marriage; it is more characteristic of a "beard," although it doesn't identify it as that, either. Not sure why someone felt this entry qualifies for the article's topic. ShelbyMarion (talk) 14:39, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

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Earliest attestation in the lead: 1895 or 1995?

The reference for the 1895 attestation of that phrase doesn't mention that year (or decade) that I could see and is from 1995, so 1895 may be a typo. However, Google Ngrams indicates the phrase was used between 1880 and 1890 in British English (meaning then unknown) before disappearing again until the early 1990s, which would be consistent with either date. Does anyone have another reference? The Crab Who Played With The Sea (talk) 14:57, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

First use

The reference for the first use being in 1895 is from 1995? 2600:1700:6F20:13F0:4111:E12B:F8FB:3EB0 (talk) 18:53, 21 December 2022 (UTC)