Talk:Lauren Berlant
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Gendered pronouns edit
Reading a recent interview with Lauren Berlant alerted me to the fact that they don't seem to use the female pronoun "she." Is there counter-evidence to suggest otherwise? Should we change all the pronouns in this article to "they"? aeymxq (talk) 19:37, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
- That was thought-provoking reading! An excellent interview, thank you for that. As regards Berlant's pronouns, I suspect you are right, also in the light of this edit to the article (which was reverted, as there was no source provided). I'm not quite sure that the interview is enough, though, since it doesn't actually say anything explicit about Berlant's pronoun usage. I find quite a lot of articles about her that use "she", but none from the last couple of years, so that doesn't tell us anything either (and it's likely that the newspaper reporters defaulted to "she" without reflecting). I think a better source is needed, even if my gut feeling tells me that "they/them" would be the more correcct pronoun here. --bonadea contributions talk 20:37, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
- Returning to this thread because the page keeps switching between she/her pronouns and they/them pronouns. My understanding is that they/them is correct and I'll be keeping an eye on the page to make sure that this is adhered to. I appreciate that some editors may not appreciate the meaning/significance here, but at the same time there are some people whose resistance to they/them pronouns is less than respectful. I'd encourage any editors thinking of reverting the page to she/her pronouns to come and discuss it in this thread.Boredintheevening (talk) 23:54, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
- To support the use of they/them pronouns, this is a memorial piece published by Berlant's employer which correctly uses their pronouns (https://news.uchicago.edu/story/lauren-berlant-preeminent-literary-scholar-and-cultural-theorist-1957-2021) and another piece in a popular publication (https://www.artforum.com/news/lauren-berlant-1957-2021-86157), additionally here is recent correspondence with Berlant on the issue (https://twitter.com/fkelleter/status/1409507532205400066). I appreciate that older published sources use she/her but (as will be evident in sources produced in the coming days), they/them were correct at the end of their life.Boredintheevening (talk) 00:05, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
- Returning to this thread because the page keeps switching between she/her pronouns and they/them pronouns. My understanding is that they/them is correct and I'll be keeping an eye on the page to make sure that this is adhered to. I appreciate that some editors may not appreciate the meaning/significance here, but at the same time there are some people whose resistance to they/them pronouns is less than respectful. I'd encourage any editors thinking of reverting the page to she/her pronouns to come and discuss it in this thread.Boredintheevening (talk) 23:54, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
I don't understand the grammar-destroying PC use of the plural pronoun. We are talking about one person, not about multiple persons. Grammatically, this person cannot be "they". This person can be a he or a she. That's it. Sorry, but this is how language works. This is supposed to be an encyclopaedia, not a political post. Stop vandalising. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2a02:a58:8221:ed00:3f:c891:bf07:ef53 (talk) 18:32, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- For more information on Wikipedia’s policy on gender identity, please see MOS:GENDERID, particularly the following:
“Refer to any person whose gender might be questioned with gendered words (e.g. pronouns, "man/woman", "waiter/waitress") that reflect the person's latest expressed gender self-identification as reported in the most recent reliable sources, even if it does not match what is most common in sources. This holds for any phase of the person's life, unless they have indicated a preference otherwise.”
(Emphasis mine.) Reliable sources (noted above) indicate that Lauren Berlant used they/them pronouns in the last years of their life, so Wikipedia defers to that most recent information. Innisfree987 (talk) 18:40, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- How Berland wrote should dictate how Wiki writes about her? This is an article about her, not by her. A Wikipedia article on E.E. Cummings is not obliged to use lower case where "they" might have. Seligne (talk) 12:49, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
- Please see policy linked above that the community has set and kindly stop misgendering Berlant. Innisfree987 (talk) 15:09, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
- The only possible pronouns in the link you are referring to are he or she. To use „they“ for a single person is confusing and also expresses arrogance and sounds hubristic. It’s similar to someone asking to be only addressed as „his majesty“ or demanding the use of the pluralis majestatis. 178.112.234.251 (talk) 07:05, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
- No.
"Singular they pronouns are appropriate to use in reference to a person who goes by them."
Innisfree987 (talk) 16:46, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
- No.
- The only possible pronouns in the link you are referring to are he or she. To use „they“ for a single person is confusing and also expresses arrogance and sounds hubristic. It’s similar to someone asking to be only addressed as „his majesty“ or demanding the use of the pluralis majestatis. 178.112.234.251 (talk) 07:05, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
- Please see policy linked above that the community has set and kindly stop misgendering Berlant. Innisfree987 (talk) 15:09, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
- How Berland wrote should dictate how Wiki writes about her? This is an article about her, not by her. A Wikipedia article on E.E. Cummings is not obliged to use lower case where "they" might have. Seligne (talk) 12:49, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
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