Talk:Latvian declension

Cases

It is not clear how many and which cases there exist, as inconsistencies are not fully explained, particularly about the ablative: it is not named in the introduction yet it is shown in tables, it's said it is no longer considered a separate case yet a list of prepositions requiring it are listed. Gbnogkfs 1 Nov 2007, 13:25 (UTC)

Factual accuracy

OK, so..

• there are seven cases in the Latvian language, please attribute sources for claims of existence of 8.
• there are 6 patterns of declining nound/adjectives in the Latvian language, not 7.
• there is no dual number in the Latvian language.

um yea you could split the article just as well, the above mentioned claims would be just in place in a separate article like Old Latvian for instance. 354d 00:05, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Well, there are no factual inaccuracies in this article, it's just written from a perspective of theoretical, and not normative grammar. Mjbjosh 14:04, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Since you have made no valid references to factual inaccuracies, I set back the "factual inaccuracy" template. Everything written in this article is factually true and can be verified in any Latvian academical grammar book. We don't talk about simplified grammar for learners and elementary schools. Mjbjosh 17:19, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

The above claims are actually true, perhaps it needs a more general template than the {{disputed}} template? Okyea 03:25, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

I just check the article on English declension and it's all neatly structured - no one's trying to pass ēow / ēowiċ for a regular modern English pronoun, so I think what tis article lacks is a wikification template! (and probably wikification :)) Okyea 03:32, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

some rampant national romanticism eh!?

OK, now I'm at Latvian_declension#Palatalization, frankly I do not know what to do with the claim that plural endings append a j after the consonant. people in other countries might not be familiar with j denoting palatalization in Latvian netspeak what if they perceive j as džej? And the article needs references like really bad. there are some fifteen {{fact}} templates. Latvian_declension#Dual_number and Latvian_declension#Locative_case_forms probably need a complete rewrite. Okyea 07:45, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

J's remarks

• Ablative should no be considered a self case, as it only occurs before prepositions (not like instrumental, which still shows some contexts where it can appear alone). Prepositional usage should not be enough.

• The consonat shift nn -> njnj has not been listed. I have read it can appear on 5th declension nouns, but I can't think of any word. Maybe some Latvian could help. Anne?

Bad news guys. I found a couple of words: hunnis, pinne. The later just palatalizes the last n. The former palatalizes both nn, according to Letonika. What do we do? Which should be the exception?

• In the consonant palatalizations table, a remark should be made: all other consonants remain unchanged. Can some Latvian verify the shift kst -> shkj?? Still on use?

• The numerals section looks really poor in content. Still lacks many compound numerals, as well as noun-based cardinals (tuukstotis, desmits, simts, etc). Numerals over miljons are also missing.

• viens/a does not only combine with singular nouns. What about vieni meli? ALL numerals ending in viens/a should meet the same rules as viens/a.

The "7th ending": Names that end in -o?

Hi, i am a Spanish speaker but I am going to do my best to explain my point in English. When I lived in Latvia, they explain me that in Latvian names are "Latviantized" (Bill Clinton in Latvian changes to "Bils Klintons", and so on). By this way, all names will end in latvian endins (-s or -š, -is, -us, -a, -e and -s) and they will be able to be declined. However, names that end in -o are not "Latviantized", they are undeclined and the meaning into each sentence is given by the context. Even in Latvian there is a name that ends in -o: Oto. If the name Oto is "declined" we have:

Case.. Declension.. Example

1. Nom. Oto → Oto ir vīrietis (Oto is a man); Oto ir Rīgā (Oto is in Riga)
2. Gen. Oto → Oto māsa (The Oto´s sister);
3. Dat. Oto → Oto ir nauda (Oto has money, not "Oto is money")
4. Acc. Oto → uz Oto (to Oto)
5. Ins. Oto → Viņš ir ar Oto (He is with Oto)
6. Loc. Oto → Oto (in Oto)
7. Voc. Oto → Oto! (Oto!)

The context gives us the meaning.

Do not we have to add in the article how to decline "the 7th ending" -o? Or latvian grammars do not accept it?--Pulkstenis (talk) 04:55, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

- According to T. Mathiassen's "A short grammar of Latvian": "/o/ is marginal and attested only in words of foreign origin" [p. 28], and p. 50: "Indeclinable Nouns - Words of this group are restricted to nouns of foreign origin with a morphological shape which makes it difficult to incorporate them in the mainstream (i.e. declinable) corpus of Latvian. Thus, nouns ending in -u/-ū and -o are not declined." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.172.154.9 (talk) 17:02, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

If you want, you can add those details to the existing section Latvian declension#Indeclinable nouns. CapnPrep (talk) 17:07, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Neuter Gender

This article doesn't make it very clear. Is there a neuter gender in Latvian or is it just masculine and feminine? 86.23.40.218 (talk) 23:55, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

"Latvian has two grammatical genders, masculine and feminine." The very first sentence of the article, after the lead. CapnPrep (talk) 02:41, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Pronominal declension

The table has a curious asymmetry: the first- and second-person forms given as "genitive", mans and tavs, aren't really genitive forms of the pronouns (these would be manis and tevis, not mentioned in the table), but independent adjectival possessive pronouns. A third pronoun, the reflexive sevs, does have the correct genitive form listed -- sevis -- but now the adjectival possessive form savs is left out. Would someone care to change the table so that both the genitives and the adjectival modifying possessives are mentioned? --Pereru (talk) 20:13, 10 December 2012 (UTC)