Talk:Lars Eller
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Fight with Marchand edit
I found this edit held too much weight (per WP:NPOV) because:
a) Please define what "much-discussed fight" even means? Did it change a hockey policy, start a riot, cause huge controversy or was it just a Sportsnet highlight? "Much discussed fight" is so vague, basically every fight is discussed on Sportsnet, TSN etc. For example, you don't see mention of Kadri pulling out Thornton's beard on either of their pages because it would be too much weight to one situation even though it was shown on Sportsnet for weeks (like this fight seems to be). There is no context; the edit shown above doesn't even say the score of the game (which was the main reason for the mocking and fight!) It just says there was a fight because he mocked the bench. I am willing to add it in if there is more context regarding the season (for example, see what I did on Tom Wilson (ice hockey) here) to help balance it but even then I'm iffy. This seems to be just a passing fight, get ready to see a lot during the season.
b) I also feel it isn't worded neutrally. Going back to being vague, how does "much discussed fight in which he was beaten and bloodied by the smaller Bruins forward Brad Marchand" better explain the situation? First of all, I felt beaten and bloodied was too descriptive and unneeded, and why does it matter that he was smaller? It still doesn't explain the context and why this fight is notable for someone's biography. HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 02:09, 8 October 2018 (UTC)
- Seeing as I have been reverted (without discussion on the talk page by the revert-er) I am going to expand on what I meant above. I can sort-of see why this could be justified on adding to Marchand's page since he was praised as a leader etc. but what does that edit with that exact wording add to Eller's biography? Yes, articles should be neutral in that they show praise and criticism but the wording really needs to be improved to show why this fight is worth mentioning and how this affects him. Just because this is a fact, as in the fight happened, doesn't explain why someone reading this biography in 5 years needs to know this? I don't want to say this falls under WP:NOTNEWS but the idea of that policy is that this is a recent event/situation and not all verifiable events are suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia. As the IP keeps saying in their edit summary "you're the one deleting factual info that you personally don't want to have visible" – just because it is factual doesn't mean it needs to be included. Using the example above, it is a fact that Kadri pulled out parts of Thorton's beard. Does that mean it should be in his article? No. Furthermore, I am reverting not becuase of personal opinion or it not being factual but because I feel it is inappropriate for Wikipedia per WP:NOTNEWS, WP:BLP, and WP:NPOV. Saying that, we may have to see what happens the next time the two teams play eachother. If this is a continuous fued there may be some weight to re-adding this but that is in the future. HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 00:25, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
You haven't explained why you're so dead set against its inclusion. It seems personal for you. The complaints and threats of future reprisals made by Eller and his team mates against Marchand make this more than a one-day story. Anyway I object to people deleting factual material just because they personally don't want it included. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.86.138.216 (talk) 21:02, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
- I want to be clear it isn't personal at all and once again, just because something is a fact it doesn't have to be included. Full disclosure; I am not a fan of either team, I just think it isn't necessary to mention per the many reasons stated above. Also, isn't it your personal opinion to want it in the article? This is also personal opinion backed by Wikipedia policy like having too much weight on one incident. Saying that, I am always up to compromise though so may I suggest the following word changes to at least show context? One of my biggest issues was the wording. As you say above, threats were uttered but that isn't mentioned in the current wording.
Proposal
- On 3 October 2018, with the Capitals winning 6–0 over the Boston Bruins, Eller mocked the Bruins' bench after scoring the Capitals 7th goal of the game, which provoked a fight sparked by Bruins forward Brad Marchand.[1] The fight was the first of Eller's career[2] and both Marchand and Eller were given five minutes for fighting and Marchand received a two-minute minor for instigating and a 10-minute game misconduct.[3] Neither Marchand nor Eller received supplementary discipline following the fight. After the game, Eller said, "I don’t really care if they discipline him or not. Like I said, the good thing is we play them two more times, so I can handle it myself.”[4]
- As the IP hasn't reponded in more than 20 days and this is no longer the top hit on google can we agree this is too much weight and doesn't belong in the article? As I said earlier, come November no one will be talking about this....I am right. HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 03:18, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- On 3 October 2018, with the Capitals winning 6–0 over the Boston Bruins, Eller mocked the Bruins' bench after scoring the Capitals 7th goal of the game, which provoked a fight sparked by Bruins forward Brad Marchand.[1] The fight was the first of Eller's career[2] and both Marchand and Eller were given five minutes for fighting and Marchand received a two-minute minor for instigating and a 10-minute game misconduct.[3] Neither Marchand nor Eller received supplementary discipline following the fight. After the game, Eller said, "I don’t really care if they discipline him or not. Like I said, the good thing is we play them two more times, so I can handle it myself.”[4]
References
- ^ "Marchand jumping Capitals' Eller was the action of a Bruins leader". nbcsports.com. Retrieved 2018-10-06.
- ^ "Brad Marchand bloodies Lars Eller in a fight". nbcsports.com. 8 October 2018. Retrieved 8 October 2018.
- ^ "Bruins' Brad Marchand jumps Capitals' Lars Eller down 7-0". sportsnet.ca. 3 October 2018. Retrieved 8 October 2018.
- ^ Stubbs, Roman (6 October 2018). "Capitals' Lars Eller on his fight with Brad Marchand: 'I can handle it myself'". The Washington Post. Retrieved 9 October 2018.
- A brief mention seems warranted of this event on Eller's page (BRIEF and to the point, stripped of any and all adornment). What I haven't seen in any of the actual or proposed passages is any mention of Marchand being a bit of a bad boy in the NHL, known for this sort of thing (and more).Artaxerxes 02:24, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
- @Artaxerxes: In my research, I noticed this was Ellers first fight. That might be notable to include but the current wording was absolutely not okay. It had weasel words and wasn't neutral.HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 02:28, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
- A brief mention seems warranted of this event on Eller's page (BRIEF and to the point, stripped of any and all adornment). What I haven't seen in any of the actual or proposed passages is any mention of Marchand being a bit of a bad boy in the NHL, known for this sort of thing (and more).Artaxerxes 02:24, 16 November 2018 (UTC)