Talk:Languages of Russia

Old talk

I started the article today, because it had been requested for over a year. I am not a linguist, but I take interest in it. Other Wikipedians are more than welcome to edit and improve this article. Most of the information is taken from Ethnologue or borrowed from existing Wikipedia entries. It would be splendid if someone made a section called Alphabets of languages of Russia (see Languages of India for inspiration).

Punkmorten 20:02, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Mostly, the alphabet would be a variant of Cyrillic alphabet. Probably, there is already a page that lists the variants of Cyrillic alphabet derived from the Russian alphabet, which are used for languages of Russia and some other languages of the "neighbours". As to the official languages of Russia, the official script must be Cyrillic according to Russian laws.--Imz 18:00, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

Yes, with the exception of the minority languages of Karelia, Karelia and Veps, which are both formally written with a variant of the Finnish alphabet (they are both very closely related to Finnish, to the extent of being more or less mutually intelligible). Wilsonsamm (talk) 13:38, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

no 2603:8001:3402:C189:30FA:67E9:C827:1358 (talk) 13:48, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

Yiddish language

Need to add Yiddish, official in the Jewish Autonomous Oblast. --Anatoli (talk) 04:42, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

It is not official. Article 6.1 of the JAO Charter only specifies Russian as official. Furthermore, the Constitution of Russia only allows the republics to establish official languages other than Russian.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); September 30, 2010; 12:10 (UTC)

Reference

The first reference says (in Russian). It's not in Russian, but some other slavic language. My guess is Ukranian. I'd mend it, but I'm not sure if I'm right, and anyway I don't know how to. Wilsonsamm (talk) 13:38, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

It is indeed Ukrainian. Thanks for catching it; I've made a correction.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); November 3, 2011; 14:30 (UTC)

Endangered languages

There are probably more endangered languages in Russia than listed here, but it's a bit strange to say that Udmurt is endangered. Over 300000 speakers, it's actively taught (including to the PMs of the Udmurt republic), has at least one radio, a couple of newspapers, an active presence online (e.g. over 3000 articles in the Udmurt wikipedia)... http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%81%D0%BE%D0%BA_%D1%8F%D0%B7%D1%8B%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B2_%D0%A0%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%81%D0%B8%D0%B8 lists the languages of Russia, there is quite a few with under 20000 speakers. Those are endangered. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.36.70.212 (talk) 14:50, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Ukrainian language in Crimea

I've just tagged Ukrainian being a recognised language in Crimea. I've encountered a few articles from, er... slightly biased sources claiming that Ukrainian is being banned in schools. Any WP:RS to confirm that it's an officially recognised language? --Iryna Harpy (talk) 01:06, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

It hasn't been banned. All of the schools with ukrainian language of teaching were closed. It explained as the ammount of people willing their children to get education in ukrainian language dropped drasticly, so there is no need in those schools anymore. You are still able to study ukrainian language at the language classes though, if there are enough amount of parents who want their child to learn it. Here is the interview of the Minister of Education of Crimea where she tells about it (ria.ru). I've added source to the new Constitution of Crimea, to the one who would like to read the language paragraph – type <Статья 10> in the search field. A.dmyme (talk) 14:36, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for your assistance! --Iryna Harpy (talk) 00:09, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

Unofficial languages

I've tagged the Unofficial languages section as WP:OR. In the first instance, 'unofficial' has been loosely defined as virtually any language spoken by itinerant tradespeople and is growing longer without any form of WP:RS. In fact, I have not been able to find any RS definition of what an unofficial language actually is. There are definitions for official languages. The only definition I am aware of is used in linguistics and applies to smaller groups of indigenous languages within an historical territory which are spoken (and often endangered), but are not languages recognised by the state. I seriously think the entire section should go. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 04:36, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

I wonder if the original intent of this section was to address the languages which have no official status but are recognized in other ways. I agree that the section should not deal with the languages which merely happen to be spoken in Russia by someone (that subset can include pretty much every language on Earth). It can, however, describe the status of the languages spoken in the areas of the so-called "compact settlement" of certain ethnicities. Most federal subjects have laws that protect such languages, giving them certain rights other "unofficial" languages may not have. There is, after all, a great difference in status between the Tajik language in Moscow and the Evenk language in certain areas of the Sakha Republic...—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); January 26, 2015; 15:21 (UTC)

Therein lies the problem. I realise that it may be difficult to find RS in order to formally identify languages not recognised, but there needs to be a more concise qualification of 'unofficial' languages. For example, in Australia alone, there are around 75 indigenous languages (of the original approximately 250 languages) still in use and being taught in schools: but those regions are identifiable. Add to that the number of diasporic communities all over Australia, most notably over the last couple of decades, and you can add at least 100 'unofficial languages' in use in particular suburbs in cities.

I've also tagged the 'recognised languages' section as being problematic (mainly because a user has changed the number in the Russia infobox from 24 to 35 in the last few days. The best I can do is add a 'citation needed' tag, but I suspect they've used this article as their reference. Again, I realise that this would require trawling through region after region - something I'm not particularly keen on doing - but it does need some form of verification. Are you aware of any documentation where the info might be centralised? If not, I'm tempted to approach the Russia article infobox with 24 to 35 languages. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 05:08, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure the status of protected minority languages is codified, but you are right, hunting them down would require going region-by-region, and my cockles, too, aren't particularly warmed at the thought of doing that!—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); January 30, 2015; 13:13 (UTC)

Oh, my aching head. Perhaps we could go for, "Yes. Yes, there are... quite a few." If not, I might try for the "I've developed selective amnesia and forgot that the question even came up." approach. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 22:04, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Sevastopol

Ukrainian and Crimean Tatar languages do not have any official status in Sevastopol, only in Republic of Crimea. In fact, Russian contitution gives permition to have their own official languages only to republics, autonomous oblast and autonomous okrugs, this is what makes them different from "normal" federal subjects like oblasts and krays. Federal cities (Moscow, Saint-Petersburg and Sevastopol) cannot have their own official languages under the current constitution. 62.122.102.5 (talk) 08:57, 10 April 2016 (UTC)

It's actually only the republics which can have official languages other than Russian (not the autonomous okrugs/oblast), but you are right about Sevastopol. The article mentioned that "an exception" was made for Sevastopol, but I am unable to corroborate this, so I removed the statement altogether. The Charter of Sevastopol does not address the question of the official languages, and the Russian documents dealing with "incorporation" of Crimea and Sevastopol only mention the Republic of Crimea having Crimean-Tatar and Ukrainian languages as official alongside Russian, not Sevastopol. Thanks!—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); April 12, 2016; 15:48 (UTC)

it's even more complicated. You are right, autonomous oblast and orkugs are not really different in language politics according to the constitution, which is really surprise to me. Still, somehow different languages have official status in various territories, see https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%93%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%83%D0%B4%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B5_%D0%B8_%D0%BE%D1%84%D0%B8%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B5_%D1%8F%D0%B7%D1%8B%D0%BA%D0%B8_%D0%B2_%D1%81%D1%83%D0%B1%D1%8A%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%85_%D0%A0%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%81%D0%B8%D0%B9%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B9_%D0%A4%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%B8#.D0.AF.D0.B7.D1.8B.D0.BA.D0.B8_.D1.81_.D0.BE.D1.84.D0.B8.D1.86.D0.B8.D0.B0.D0.BB.D1.8C.D0.BD.D1.8B.D0.BC_.D1.81.D1.82.D0.B0.D1.82.D1.83.D1.81.D0.BE.D0.BC, so maybe even federal city could probably have some official language other than Russian. I am not sure that this is really OK according to the constitution, but this works in other territories. 62.122.102.5 (talk) 20:14, 15 April 2016 (UTC)

Those are not "official languages". Those are languages with a special status on strictly defined territories/used in strictly defined situations, recognized within the framework of the laws on protection of the status of the languages of the native peoples. Within that framework they do have a status equal to Russian, but their overall use is nevertheless limited by the same framework. It is all indeed quite complicated, but the important thing here is that the "official languages" parameter in the infobox is supposed to only cover proper official languages (as defined by the basic law of the federal subject), not these special cases (defined in separate, specialized laws). There is, of course, nothing preventing anybody from discussing those special cases within the body of the article, as long as proper sources are provided. Cheers,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); April 15, 2016; 20:53 (UTC)

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History - 1914 map

Would there be a place for this? https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EaqiC6DXYAADbqu?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

"It’s a map of the Moscow Dialectological Commission of the Imperial Academy of Sciences, published by the Imperial Russian Geographical Society in Petrograd in 1914."

from https://mobile.twitter.com/TomJLines/status/1273008311475077128/

both archived https://web.archive.org/web/20220727233655/https://twitter.com/TomJLines/status/1273008311475077128/

2A00:23C8:660A:5A01:8086:F955:2CB3:57EF (talk) 23:33, 27 July 2022 (UTC)