Talk:Lake Estancia

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by SL93 (talk) 08:43, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

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• ... that the former Lake Estancia recorded Pleistocene climate change in North America?

• Reviewed:Teshio River

Moved to mainspace by Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk). Self-nominated at 19:17, 7 July 2020 (UTC).

• Starting review, and waiting for QPQ note--Kevmin § 15:10, 24 July 2020 (UTC)
• Article new enough and long enough, all paragraphs are cited to reliable and neutral sources. The hook is problematic, due to being a highly generalized statement about an entire highly technical section. Alt hooks are requested.--Kevmin § 16:08, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

  @Kevmin:Well, is it a problem if it's a generalized statement? I'll see to squeeze alt hooks and QPQ done this evening in between TV and C/2020 F3 (NEOWISE). Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 19:30, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

  @Kevmin:Ok, Template:Did you know nominations/Teshio River is here. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 21:04, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

• Jo-Jo Eumerus Thanks for the QPQ, The current hook is so generalized its actually hard to verify with the article in some ways, plus its rather bland (as you noted with the Teshio River hook). The archaeology section has some interesting hook material.--Kevmin § 16:24, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

• Mmm, there should be something in the sources about how Lake Estancia has been used as a proxy for the wider regional climate, I'll see if I can find anything. I don't think the archeology of the area is really the important aspwct of this paleolake. JoJo Eumerus mobile (main talk) 10:56, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

• @Kevmin:Perhaps something like:
• ... that the former Lake Estancia recorded Pleistocene climate change in North America, such as the formation of lakes during the last glacial maximum?

Might be longish. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 19:11, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

Jo-Jo Eumerus I may be missing it, but I can't find a cited supported statement in the article of Lake Estancia recording climate change in other lakes or recording the formation of other lakes?--Kevmin § 14:45, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

It's supposed to be the paragraph beginning with Similarities have been noted between.... Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:16, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

Where in the paragraph does it say that though? That paragraph discusses coeval lakes that also experienced the climactic shifts, BUT does not say that Lake Estancia itself recorded the changes of other lakes, which how the hook reads.--Kevmin § 18:10, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

I was sure there were some sources discussing that aspect, but seems not. So I'll try the following:

• ALT2 ... that the former Lake Estancia in New Mexico reached a highstand during the last glacial maximum, similar to other lakes in the Great Basin?

With or without the last sentence, on the basis of #97 and the text from there in the article. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 20:34, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

Jo-Jo Eumerus Ive done the same thing on a couple nominations over te years, I was convinced a fact was there and obvious, until the reviewer pointed out it wasnt, no worries at all.

Article new enough and long enough, all paragraphs are cited to reliable and neutral sources. Alt2 hook cited and verified to source. No copyviolation issues identified in the article. Looks good to go!--Kevmin § 17:10, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Is there any more information on human settlements/culture/history?

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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{{ While this article seems to have a wealth of detailed, well supported scientific information, it seems to be lacking a lot of information on history, culture, and human settlements. Is there any way to potentially add to this article?

This is the extent of information on history, culture, and human settlements:

"Man first arrived in the Estancia Basin during a period where Lake Estancia was dry, before the rebound of water levels that took place during the Younger Dryas. The last lake cycles of Lake Estancia coincide with the Folsom period of human culture in North America. Unlike the lake itself which offered no useful resources, the surrounding region and shores were likely favorable environments for human settlement; numerous points including Folsom points have been found close to the former shores and on lake terraces. The "Lucy site" and the "Martin site" are archeological sites in the Estancia Valley; both are located in spots where water was available. Long after the lake dried up, Spaniards reported that Pueblo people traded with salt from the lake basin and there were disputes between the Church and State in the 1660s about its exploitation."

There has to be more information out there. Just wanted to post this and perhaps question the featured article status. Not saying it's a bad article at all, it could just use more non-geological information.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Desertambition (talk • contribs)

This omission is purposeful, since the lake was mostly gone when humans came and with the exception of the things mentioned the lake has not had many effects on humans and their culture. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 18:13, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

Ah ok, that makes a lot of sense. Thank you for telling me. That's a little embarrassing on my part. Sorry about that. Desertambition (talk) 18:17, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Addition about humans

I have some concerns about this addition by Kehkou. One, it is about the Tularosa Basin, not Lake Estancia, they are two different lakes. Two, this later source raises doubts about the timing presented there. Even if the addition were to stay, though, it needs reworking; there is no reason for it to use secondhand sources and the citation format should match that of the article. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 09:52, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for that source; it does raise a compelling argument. I do think the inclusion of the word "possibly" duly reflects this uncertainty (the source you provided should be added to the article after that word), but maybe it could be worded better/clearer, or include a note that it is conditional on the WSNP evidence being correct. I, myself, remain somewhat skeptical of early migration, but merely added what was in the sources (and WSNP is far from being the only possibly-prochronic American site). I could not even find any counter-sources until you provided the link to the paper (Thanks again!). The bottom line is that I felt that if the WSNP evidence is indeed correct, that would mean a possibility that humans witnessed this and other SW paleolakes at highstand, which is notable enough to be included in the article. Kehkou (talk) 10:37, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

@Kehkou: It still sounds like content more for White Sands National Park or Lake Otero if it is ever written, not Lake Estancia. I don't think we can categorically assume that if people went to lake A they also went to lake B. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 11:15, 8 May 2024 (UTC)