Talk:Lab Rats: Elite Force

Premiere on Watch Disney XD

@Geraldo Perez: This info is stated in the press release, and I would consider the fact that it is (going to be) made available officially before the television premiere encyclopedic info, just like in K.C. Undercover. nyuszika7h (talk) 12:31, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

@Nyuszika7H: Judgement call, was in the press release so OK for article if referenced. Geraldo Perez (talk) 14:34, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

Credit order

This show is also using an ambiguous equal billing: William Brent is on the top but on the right side, and Bradley Steven Perry is on the bottom but the left side. Not sure which one we should use, maybe just stick to what the press release says. nyuszika7h (talk) 14:29, 2 March 2016 (UTC)

Should go with the actual show credits over pretty much anything else. Press release is overridden by show credits. Order is normal reading order, top to bottom, then left to right. Also for equal billing in sequential lists generally go alphabetical with last name, Brent before Perry which also matches normal reading order. Should note in lists that they are getting equal billing as show leads. Geraldo Perez (talk) 14:43, 2 March 2016 (UTC)

Just to add - I noticed when watching the credits that the lead actor names are right justified, not really significantly offset. Longer name starts further left because of that, of course. Geraldo Perez (talk) 14:54, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

Do you guys think having the equal billing statement on the article seems kind of unnecessary? Isn't it better just as a hidden note like on Best Friends Whenever? I realize other articles don't set any sort of precedence, I'm just curious. Amaury (talk) 21:32, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

Might work better as a footnote along with keeping the hidden notes. Geraldo Perez (talk) 21:35, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree with the footnote idea. I wouldn't convert that info to just 'hidden notes'. But it doesn't need to be a standalone "intro" sentence either. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 21:39, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

Geraldo Perez, IJBall: All right. Now, how do I go about creating a footnote? I tried looking at WP:FOOTNOTE, but I think that regards something else. Amaury (talk) 21:43, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

I can do it! – just give me a sec... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 21:44, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

Followup

IP editors keep messing with the credits section. This needs to stop. The 'hidden notes' are there for a very important reason – they indicate what the credited names actually are on the show, so they need to stay as they are. Additionally, we can't add "Recurring cast" until several episodes have aired. (My personal benchmark for a "recurring cast" members is usually 4–5 episodes or more...) In other words, even if Hal Sparks appears in 2 or 3 episodes, he still won't be "recurring". People are just going to have to be patient on this, and let a lot more of the season air before we can start adding a 'Recurring cast' section. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 19:48, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

Pinging: Geraldo Perez, Nyuszika7H – I probably shouldn't revert the latest IP anymore or I risk getting trapped into an edit war (I've warned the IP about this on my end). But they keep mucking with the 'Cast' section, which should be restored to the previous version. --IJBall (contribs • talk)

@IJBall: You should be safe. It's the IP who's going against guidelines and ignoring the notes. Amaury (talk) 20:04, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

Enough people watching this so shouldn't be an issue keeping it correct. WP:3RRNO does not apply to this. Geraldo Perez (talk) 20:10, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

Canadian air date

I've managed to get a permalink to the Disney Channel Canada schedule for a given day, however, I can't see Lab Rats: Elite Force there. nyuszika7h (talk) 17:56, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

Home Sweet Home

I guess Zap2it made a mistake there, I doubt an episode called "Home Sweet Home" is going to air followed by "Home Sweet Home: Part 1" two days later and "Home Sweet Home: Part 2" the day after that. (Also, their episode guide for the show seems to be broken right now.) nyuszika7h (talk) 17:17, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

According to this (not to be used as a source, though if that image comes from a verified social media account or something, we could use that – doesn't help with air dates though), it's a one-hour special, which I guessed already. The Friday listing seems more plausible to me than airing an episode on Sunday and another on Monday, but I guess we need to wait for them to fix their mistake (if they do that) or another reliable source to report on it. nyuszika7h (talk) 17:19, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

Episode guide page seems to be working again now. nyuszika7h (talk) 17:23, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

(edit conflict) At this moment, an hour special seems unlikely based on Zap2it's air dates, though that can obviously change. While not accurate, as we know, Zap2it will list the exact same episode twice with the same air date when it's an hour special, and that's not the case here as there are different air dates for the Home Sweet Home episodes. Another theory is that there are meant to be three parts: Home Sweet Home should be Home Sweet Home: Part 1, Home Sweet Home: Part 1 should be Home Sweet Home: Part 2, and Home Sweet Home: Part 2 should be Home Sweet Home: Part 3. We'll just wait. Once The Futon Critic updates, everything will be made clear.

Also, kind of unrelated, but it's possible Home Sweet Home is not the season finale, as Jake stated there will be at least 16 episodes—although he was likely going by production codes, which I know we don't go by, but just putting it out there—and there's the possibility of more being added to the first season, and that was earlier this year. Amaury (talk | contribs) 17:30, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

Although no reliable sources exist there (apart from the photo which is probably real but might be a fan-taken photo or something as I can't seem to find it elsewhere), the Wikia article seems to suggest it's just a regular double episode, whether it will air as one episode or two. And yeah, the title does sound season finale-y, but Zap2it doesn't say that, and even going by the production code on that picture, it's just 111. Anyway, yeah, we'll just have to wait. nyuszika7h (talk) 17:34, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

@Nyuszika7H: Just for reference, I mentioned what Jake said above, but forgot to link to it. Obviously, it's also not reliable, but yeah: http://waitwith.us/lab-rats-elite-force-season-2-7195/ Amaury (talk | contribs) 17:44, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

I agree – Zap2it is almost certainly wrong here: "Home Sweet Home" must be a 1-hour episode, and the "Part 1" and "Part 2" airings are reruns of the hour episode split into 30-minute segments. As I've just seen recently with Elena of Avalor, Zap2it definitely makes mistakes from time to time (though they seem to eventually correct them...). --IJBall (contribs • talk) 18:23, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

@IJBall: This is only kind of related, so if you'd like to discuss it in more detail and don't feel it's appropriate here, I can come to your talk page or you can come to mine. I feel different here. Zap2it very rarely seems to fix errors, whether it's ones they made or ones originally made by whoever fed them the information. The Futon Critic, on the other hand, is 100% on top of fixing errors. They still list the original content, but they strike it out if it becomes inaccurate and add a new listing. I know I've mentioned this a few times already, but Jessie's Identity Thieves episode from the fourth season originally aired on September 11, 2015; Zap2it is still listing the air date as September 2, 2015, likely because that's when it first aired in Canada or something, but they should be listing the original US airing. Same thing for Austin & Ally's Bad Seeds & Bad Dates episode from the fourth season, which originally aired on September 20, 2015, but Zap2it is still listing it as September 4, 2015, likely for the same reasons as Jessie. Amaury (talk | contribs) 18:32, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

Writing credits

I know we couldn't really agree last time at List of K.C. Undercover episodes, but the issue has come up again – the episode's credits are listed on-screen like this:

• Part 1 written by: Greg Schaffer
• Part 2 written by: Andy Schwartz

Personally, I still don't think it's trivia if they decided to credit them that way, even if it's a combined episode – such credits are frequently included on other TV series articles, and I know that's WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS but I don't think it's a bad thing. But either way, listing them as "Greg Schaffer & Andy Schwartz" is misleading, so at the very least, a line break should be used there instead. (I'll also note that in this case there's just one director credited without any part labels, so there's no dilemma with trying to fit the part labels in the director column, unlike at K.C. Undercover). nyuszika7h (talk) 17:43, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

Again, FTR, I agree with you, to the point that crediting like this establishes, I believe, that they should actually be listed as separate "Part 1" and "Part 2" episodes in the table. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 18:51, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

It is not a 2-part episode if they created a single long episode from 2 productions no matter how they label the writing credits. Listing the writers on two lines without the & is sufficient. I think labelling them by part is unnecessary. I disagree with creating two table entries for this episode based on how the writers are credited. Geraldo Perez (talk) 19:14, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

Well, the problem with that is that the episode has one set of credits, minus the specific parted writing credits, and the original airing, iTunes and Amazon have it like that, so the only source for the "split" episode (for separating things like guest stars, to avoid WP:OR – and listing all in both parts would be misleading) would be syndication and possibly re-runs, which is harder to verify. So I don't think they should be completely separated. nyuszika7h (talk) 19:19, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

That's how they premiered it. I'm of the firm opinion that we shouldn't base these things purely on the premiere airing. If they split this up in reruns, like they do with Game Shakers' "Sky Whale", to take one example, then separate writing and/or directing credits + 'split up' in reruns = 2 separate episodes (in the episodes table) in my book. I'm apparently in the minority in this view, but that's my take. (OTOH, episodes like the 1-hour Victorious episodes, which are never split even in reruns, can legitimately called "one episode", regardless of prod. codes.) Now, the whole "iTunes" thing is an added complication, because they do seem to sell a lot of these as "1-hour episodes" (I suspect as a marketing ploy to charge more for them). But, I really think "Part 1" and "Part 2" crediting for either writing, directing or both, along with separate prod. codes, strongly signals two separate episodes – and, FTR, this seems to be how most of the 1-hour drama series episode list articles handle this same issue with their "2-hour special airings". --IJBall (contribs • talk) 22:45, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

Lab Rats: Elite Force "Finale" (Oct. 22)

Nothing about Moore's Twitter post, nor the Disney XD promo linked to on YouTube, in any way verify that this is anything more than a garden-variety season finale. Assuming it's the "series finale" is 100% speculation at this point. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 15:20, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

Good point. Reviewing the source it does look ambiguous. Need a more explicit reference from the network about series being done. Geraldo Perez (talk) 16:02, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

It looks like people are mostly going off Kelli Berglund's tweet, but even that was ambiguous as she doesn't explicitly say the show is cancelled... On my end, until Disney XD announces it is cancelled (or, in the absence of a public cancellation notice, until a year has passed since Oct. 22), I'm not assuming anything. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 16:05, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

This M Magazine article shows Facebook posts from Kelli Berglund that make it clear it's the series finale, but I guess it's still a statement by an actor so should just mention it as that in the "Production" section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nyuszika7H (talk • contribs) 17:48, October 18, 2016 (UTC)

Still a bit ambiguous as to whether season or series finale and the magazine itself did a lot of WP:SYNTHESIS to make a conclusion not explicitely stated. Keeping the info in the article seems reasonable. Geraldo Perez (talk) 18:17, 18 October 2016 (UTC)

No, it doesn't make "explicit" – she's not the showrunner, and neither one actually use the words "cancelled" or "ended". Until we get something from Disney XD that's official, or at the least we get a more explicit cancellation statement from someone, it should be kept out. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 18:38, 18 October 2016 (UTC)

(edit conflict) The quoted Twitter posts are ambiguous, but look at the screenshot of the Facebook comments from her slightly below. Those make it clear, though as I said I know the guidelines here say an actor doesn't speak for a show, which is why I only included the statement instead of treating it like a fact (though personally I doubt the showrunners or Disney will say anything different). nyuszika7h (talk) 18:42, 18 October 2016 (UTC)

OK, that is new, as that was not there when I looked a few days ago. Still, I think it's better that we wait for either the showrunner or Disney XD to confirm. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 18:44, 18 October 2016 (UTC)

Yes, it's new, that M Magazine article was posted today. nyuszika7h (talk) 18:46, 18 October 2016 (UTC)

Wait. I just noticed that in the Facebook comments, Kelli Berglund says "tune in Saturday for the 1-hour finale" (emphasis mine). Since only a normal-length episode aired, there may be another part they will air. So we can't definitively say that Saturday's episode was the last. nyuszika7h (talk) 14:28, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

Sort of emphasizes why we shouldn't take the word of someone not authorized to speak for the show as authoritative. Actors might be passing on what they hear as gossip at their workplace and are likely not privy to higher level discussions and decisions of the network and production. Geraldo Perez (talk) 15:25, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

OK, finally got around to watching the "finale" last night, and after seeing it, I can easily believe there's another 30-minutes of episode still left out there... If that is the case, the questions become: 1) why is Disney XD holding it back? and 2) will they ever air it?!... I will note that the on-air promos that Disney XD ran for this episode carefully avoided the word "finale" (unlike the YouTube version of the promo). So I can't figure out what's going on here – Do they intend to air the second 30-minutes later? Or are they thinking about renewing the show, and holding that episode for "season #2"? Or are they thinking about doing a "wrap up" movie (and thus maybe intend to "scrap" the remaining 30-minutes)?! Or maybe there's not another 30 minutes at all?!!... Bottom line: I agree that the evidence that "The Attack" is a true "finale" – either a "season finale" or a "series finale" is scant at best, and thus any mention of the show "ending" must be kept out of the article, in the absence of strong reliable secondary souring confirming that fact. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 15:03, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

The official LREF wiki says the show ended, but assuming we don't go by that, if one year goes by since the finale, and nothing is said, we can assume the show is dead. 74.108.224.146 (talk) 13:50, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

That's precisely how it works. Once a year goes by, there's no doubt a series has either ended or been canceled silently. Amaury (talk | contribs) 14:28, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

Heh – yeah, tell that to The Shannara Chronicles which will go well over a year before finally airing its season #2 (and on another network!)!! Yeah, yeah, I know – there was an official announcement of renewal in this case. But still – one of these days a show is going to get renewed after a full year has passed, and we're going to get burned by this "rule"... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 16:11, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

@IJBall: Exactly why I believe there's still a chance for this series, especially after seeing how long Legos whatever went before being renewed. Lab Rats: Elite Force hasn't gone quite that long yet. Amaury (talk | contribs) 20:55, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

Well that's why after one year we should update it to say the series is canceled. If the show comes back to life after that, we'll just change it back. 74.108.224.146 (talk) 00:56, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

Redux

In that Facebook screenshot posted on that article, there was a question if the series was going to come back for a 2nd season and Kelli replied back that there won't be a season 2. That's not enough proof right there that the show is cancelled? The show last aired 7 months ago and you guys are waiting for an official announcement from Disney XD that's probably never gonna come? Don't you think if the show was coming back, the've would've been airing new episodes by now, plus they would have announced it's renewal. Come on folks, we all know that the show is cancelled, lets just say it's cancelled. It's not coming back. Kelli confirmed it. P.J. (talk) 07:52, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

It's quite annoying that Disney doesn't make an official statement about it, but I think we can reasonably believe such a claim from a verified account of an actor in a main role, especially after so long. It's not exactly the best source per Wikipedia's policies but it's not completely unreliable either. And plans could change even if announced by the network – the way she said it made it pretty obvious, not just hearsay. nyuszika7h (talk) 08:45, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

I totally agree with you nyuszika7h, what Kelli said is pretty much evident that the show is no longer in production. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Soapfan2013 (talk • contribs) 09:53, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

Kelli does not speak for the show in any way. Also, after seeing IJBall's message here back in April regarding Lego Star Wars: The Freemaker Adventures, anything is possible. There were seven months and four days between its last episode and the renewal announcement, not counting the day of the last episode and the day the renewal announcement was made. Anything is even possible after a year as he mentioned series have been renewed after a year has passed. It has only been seven months and nine days since the last Lab Rats: Elite Force episode, not counting the day of the last episode or today since today is just getting started. It's been about as long as Lego Star Wars: The Freemaker Adventures went without an announcement, and everyone thought that was for sure canceled, but it ended up being renewed. Cancellations can also be reversed: User talk:Amaury#A lesson for us all.... Regardless, per current guidelines, lacking an official announcement, we must wait one year until we can change the status to ended, and that won't be until October 22, 2017. Amaury (talk | contribs) 13:58, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

The larger issue here is that a lot of editors don't really understand Wikipedia's role in situations like this. Wikipedia is WP:NOTNEWS – we're not Deadline Hollywood, and as per WP:NORUSH this site has no obligation to be "up-to-date" or even to report the latest developments. Quite the opposite – we're actually supposed to be more of a historical record after the fact. As such, it really is not a big deal if we wait a year to report that a show is over, especially in the absence of iron-clad independent sourcing confirming such. That is the case here – we simply do not have an "official announcement" from either Disney or LR:EF's showrunners confirming that the show is done. In fact, there will almost never be such an announcement forthcoming from either Disney Channel or Nick – they simply do not publicize when shows are over. So editors are going to have to get used to this year-long ambiguity in the case of most Disney and Nick shows. Ultimately, this is going to become standard practice at these articles... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 15:20, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

Kelli does not speak for the show but she is an actress on the show, and she would know if the show was going to be renewed or not. P.J. (talk) 21:18, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

It doesn't matter. She is not the showunner and her word essentially means nothing. Also, learn to properly indent your responses. Amaury (talk | contribs) 00:20, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

How does her word not mean anything, so were supposed to wait on a showrunner to make an offical announcement that's never gonna come? And as for me to properly indent my responses, yeah sorry but I'm just too doggone lazy to do that. P.J. (talk) 05:34, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

It would appear that you completely ignored what I said above. So let me just cut to the chase: you need a WP:RS that quotes either the network or the series' showrunners. Anything short of that does not count for the purposes of Wikipedia. And Amaury is correct – please learn how to properly indent your replies so they follow whatever you are replying to. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 05:49, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

In Amaury's analogy, there wasn't any word from the cast or crew that the show was cancelled, was there? I understand that Kelli's word is not as credible as a showrunner or Disney itself, but we can't just dismiss it entirely in the same way as any other unreliable source. At the very least, it should be mentioned in the article that she said that (I thought it already was, I haven't been active for a while so I don't know exactly what happened, and I can't be bothered to look through the history). I'm fine with waiting for the one year to elapse with the infobox if that seems to be the consensus here, but personally I'd trust Kelli's claim at this point and just tag it with {{better source needed}}. Like I said, it's unlikely but the network could also change its mind after an official statement, and if Kelli's claim was wrong, one would think they would have refuted it by now. I think it's reasonable to believe that it is true, and those of us who are fans of the show can only hope it gets resurrected in some form but it doesn't seem likely at this point. It doesn't have to be treated as absolute fact like I said, but it can't be dismissed entirely either. (The idea of the crossover itself and the episodes that we got were good, but the execution was terrible, with Mighty Med ending on an unplanned cliffhanger due to it (WGA site showed episode titles implying plans for a third season) and the crossover ending early with the cliffhanger remaining unresolved.) – nyuszika7h (talk) 10:42, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

I see no issue with it being mentioned somewhere, like we did with Bella and the Bulldogs, but, like with Bella and the Bulldogs, we should keep everything as still airing until a year has passed. Amaury (talk | contribs) 14:46, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

Huh, I thought this already was mentioned in the article... In that case, yes, a line about this can be added to the 'Production' section, sourced to the M Magazine article, a la the Bella and the Bulldogs case. But Amaury is correct about the rest – while this can be mentioned, it cannot be used to justify putting a "last aired" date in the infobox (or elsewhere). --IJBall (contribs • talk) 16:17, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

 Done – added to the 'Production' section. But as has been discussed, this cannot be used to establish an "end-date" for the series, as it is not an "official" announcement from either Disney XD or one of the series' showrunners like Bryan Moore. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 19:44, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

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