Talk:Kyiv Bandurist Capella

Why move?

While I understand the use of the spelling Kiev in the article to refer to the city, why was the name of the Capella moved from Kyiv Bandurist Capella to Kiev Bandurist Capella? Like the numerous articles on "Kyiv" football clubs, the Capella is not a product of Kievan Rus', but a modern day construct in the city of Kiev. I believe renaming here borders on WP:OR. No need to rehash the history of Kyiv/Kiev here. But please answer on the merits of the proposed argument.--tufkaa 05:12, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

I did not move the article but I think the move is a correct one. The name of the group is "Київська капeла бандуристiв". The title for an English article has to come from either a translation or a transliteration of the Ukrainian title. If we go through a transliteration, the name would be "Kyivska kapela bandurystiv". If we go via translation, the name should be "Kiev Bandurist Capella". The name "Kyiv Bandurist Capella" is a mixture of both or, in fact, a mixture of none.

Football clubs are named through direct transliteration. The original name "Динамо Київ" transliterates as "Dynamo Kyiv". The original name of this group is not "Київ бандурист капелла". --Irpen 04:43, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Makes sense to me! Thanks! (and I you have a very filling Свят Вечір!)--tufkaa 05:33, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

I prefer Kyiv bandurist Capella, however the ensemble has had its name changed almost every 3 years from Kobzarskyj khor to Kyivska kapelia, Obiednana kapelia, to Derzhavna kapela, (change of Ukrainian orphography in 1937) to derzhacvna akademichna kapella, to Kapella im. H. Mayborody. The title Kyiv Bandurist Capella combines all of these entities. What the rules are regarding the naming I don't know. Also you have the word capella (latin), cappella (Italian), kapela (ukr post 1937), kapellia (ukr. pre 1937), kapella (fr. Rus) to deal with each with a somewhat different pedigree. I prefer Capella. That is what my group in Canada uses in its adevertising etc. --Bandurist 15:51, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, if the ensemble has been changing names, we should call it still under the current name or under the name it is best known. You raise an interesting point though. If the group has been marketed outside of Ukraine as Kyiv Bandurist Capella this may actually make an argument to use this name (as you originally proposed). For instance the pop-trio "ВИА Гра" sits in en-wiki under the title Nu Virgos since they are marketed in the West by this name and the name is rather well-known.

Somewhat similar is the case of Lev Nikolayevich Tolstoy whose article in en-wiki is called Leo Tolstoy as he is known to the anglophone reader. So, if the name "Kyiv Bandurist Capella" has been sufficiently well established in its own right from the group's tours in Canada, we may actually use it for the article title.

The original argument in my earlier post was for the case when we base the en-wiki title on the group's original Ukrainian name "Київська капeла бандуристiв". If the Ukrainian name serves the basis for the title, it can either be transliterated or translated as I explained above. If, however, the group has a sufficiently established Anglicized name, it should take precedence. --Irpen 20:08, 6 January 2007 (UTC)