Talk:Kuwabara

Pointing to a redirect, "media"

We read:

• Kuwabara Hon'inbo, a character in Hikaru no Go media

But there's no article on "Kuwabara Hon'inbo", just a redirect to Hikaru no Go, in which he's a part. The list item suggests that there's an article on this fictional(ized) Kuwabara Hon'inbo(u), but there isn't; I'd have thought that this was rather unfortunate.

Also, I don't know what extra info is imparted by the term "media". (My earlier version:

• Kuwabara Hon'inbo, a character in Hikaru no Go

) An edit summary points me to this, which doesn't explain anything to me (Am I missing something vital?), and also to this, in which people agree that "media" is better than the bizarre word "franchise" (which always makes me think of junk food), but not why it's better than nothing at all.

Not that I mind or anything. -- Hoary (talk) 08:18, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:MOSDAB#Piping says:

This guidance to avoid piping means that a link to a redirect term will sometimes be preferred to a direct link, if the redirect term contains the disambiguation title and the redirect target does not. For example, in Delta (disambiguation), a link to the redirect term Delta Quadrant would be preferred over its target, Galactic quadrant.

Now in the conversation I had with the dab expert concerning "media", it was concluded that "media" would be more appropiate than "franchise", simply because not everything has a franchise, but has media. Understandable? However, if the character appeared in one form of media, then "universe" would be better. I made changes to Zero (disambiguation) which reflect the appointed discussion.

And since you're here, I want to ask if this edit should be done to Himura. Thoughts? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 18:58, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply.

First off, we're not actually dealing here with a disambig page. Kuwabara is instead a hybrid of a disambig page and a surname page. (However, I don't want to say that too loudly, for two reasons. First, because a handful of very legalistic people are fond of turning such pages into strict disambig pages with links to surname pages, a complication which merely serves to make all but the most populous harder to use. Secondly, because once you have a surname page you attract vanitymongers keen to claim that the surname is "old", "distinguished", etc.) Because it's not really a disambig page, the rules of disambig pages needn't apply.

That aside, the advice above is potty, or at best explained badly. Again, it's:

For example, in [[Delta (disambiguation)]], a link to the redirect term [[Delta Quadrant]] would be preferred over its target, [[Galactic quadrant]].

"[[Delta Quadrant]]" gives the impression that there's an article on "Delta Quadrant", and there isn't an article, however named. The sensible option for a strict disambig page is the combination of "[[Galactic quadrant]]" and some sort of explanation, and that for a regular page is "[[Galactic quadrant#Delta Quadrant|Delta Quadrant]]."

You ask: I want to ask if this edit should be done to Himura. The edit seems a good one to me. First, I'm not even sure if Himura is a surname: the article doesn't give any real evidence for its existence. I've never heard of it, though since there are Higuchi, Hinago, Hidaka, Kimura, Yamamura, etc., it's plausible. Secondly, while Charlotte Brontë and Charles Dickens were people, Jane Eyre and Martin Chuzzlewit aren't and weren't people; they are characters or fictional people. That there are indeed some ambiguous cases (Robin Hood, etc.) doesn't mean that for the huge majority of people and pseudo-people one can't make a simple and helpful division between the actual and the fictional.

Meanwhile, I'm puzzled by this later edit: as the two are already labeled "fictional people" and as each is called a "character", I don't see how any clarity is added by additionally saying that they're in stories. And again, while "media" is indeed less ridiculous than "franchise" and less pompous than "universe", I don't see how it adds anything. Rurouni Kenshin (why not Rurōni Kenshin?) appears to be manga and anime; why not simply say so? "Media" is hopelessly ambiguous, encompassing floppy disks and the like. -- Hoary (talk) 23:40, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Well, I'm not so sure if this edit and that edit were helpful, you may undo them if you see fit. You never know if someone will create a full article for Kuwabara Hon'inbo and being that and since this is still a partial disambiguation page, the MOSDAB rules may apply, though this could be better off asked at WT:MOSDAB. Think the current dab is too small anyway to break off into Kuwabara (surname), though aren't there guidelines which encourage this practice? Lastly, Rurouni Kenshin is the official English name that Wikipedia uses per WP:MOS-MANGA#Article names and disambiguation. And as for use of "media" over everything else, see this. Thoughts? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 00:09, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for asking. No, I don't think those two edits were helpful, but I can't get worked up about either. (I mean, really, it doesn't just pale beside this lunacy; it virtually disappears.) So please self-revert if you feel like it; feel free not to do so if you don't. ¶ There is indeed some guideline that encourages a splintering into Kuwabara (surname) and I disagree with it: (a) it's an unnecessary level of complication, and (b) the result would clearly not be a disambig page and would thus invite the addition of more blather about the name/family. (Sorry, I can't come up with any example, but I vaguely remember that an earlier version of Sullivan (surname) was dreadful and stoutly defended by one or two users who I bet were named Sullivan.) ¶ Sorry, I hadn't noticed that "Rurouni Kenshin" was so named (or at least discussed) in English; I'd wrongly assumed that it only existed in Japanese. ¶ Instead of saying "media", I'd specify the media. Perhaps not if the media were very numerous; but if they were very numerous then I'd imagine that there'd be a fairly clear core and periphery, so not "Yoshimoto Suikan, a character in Dragontesseract media" or "Yoshimoto Suikan, a character in Dragontesseract manga, TV anime, movie anime, Flash anime, games, and stationery branding" but "Yoshimoto Suikan, a character in Dragontesseract manga, anime, games, etc." Not that I know anything about this kind of thing. -- Hoary (talk) 10:47, 1 April 2008 (UTC)