Talk:Kra languages

Krau / Thuman

There is a Chinese Wikipedia entry for a Tai-Kadai language branch of Kra called 土蠻語/土蛮语, (Tuman Yu) that is listed as "Klau" in English (although Baidu says it is "Thuman".) Can anyone confirm where it should go in the hierarchy?  Philg88 ^♦talk 04:56, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

According to the WP-zh info box, it's Ge-Chi.

Why do you think it's English? I would assume it's the ethnonym, which is just a variant of Gelao.

It's maybe a variety of Gelao recorded in the 17th century?

I found this snippet on GBooks:

At different points in his book, Yan Ruyi calls his Gelao protégés "turen" [a broader category]; neither turen nor Miao but a separate category; and the "Great and Small Zhang Tuman 大小章土蠻."

— kwami (talk) 07:40, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

@Kwamikagami: Sorry, I don't think it's English - I should have said that the Chinese Wikipedia article says that the language is called "Klau" using Roman characters. Per your research above, that suggests that we should use the pinyin name (Tuman) whether it's added to this article or has its own. What do you think?  Philg88 ^♦talk 10:53, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

We have all the varieties of Gelao in one article, so I'd think this would belong there as well, maybe in a history section. Do we have any indication that it's not Gelao? — kwami (talk) 21:50, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

I can see why someone might write "Klau" for "Gelao" as there is a homophone there, however, Chinese Wikipedia has a separate entry for 仡佬语 so I think that it's a different language. Maybe I should translate the 土蠻語 article and we'll take it from there.  Philg88 ^♦talk 06:57, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

This was spoken in the northeast of Guizhou, which has a lot of ethnic Gelao and Tujia who now only speak Chinese. The numerical evidence given in the Chinese article also hints that it was Gelao. I'd say it's quite likely that Tuman was Kra. — Stevey7788 (talk) 07:31, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

To editors Kwamikagami and Stevey7788: Further reading of the Chinese article indicates that it was a Ming dynasty dialect of Gelao. Although it could be a section of the Gelao language article, I think Tumen warrants its own article to keep the Wikidata links in sync. Do either of you have a problem with that?  Philg88 ^♦talk 08:57, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

I don't think that's a reason to create an article. It's not like our other articles would match even if we did. — kwami (talk) 09:26, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

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