Talk:Koseki

English, speak English!

This is the English Wiki! The title of this article should be Family Register. No one calls it anything else in English. Transliterating the word makes you look like you are trying to impress people with how international you are. If you are going to translate, translate, if not, write in Japanese, but don't try inventing some new language! Thanks for the article though. Wiki on!--Mak Allen (talk) 06:01, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Interesting take you have Mak Allen. Personally, I take the opposing view though. If we follow your way then: “Sushi” should be called “raw fish on rice”, and “Kimono” should be “japanese traditional dress” etc. Neither of the above examples capture the items themselves very well, do they? We introduce new words into English all the time, and I suggest that we directly import the language’s own word in cases where we don’t have the same thing in our culture. So it’s OK to use “cherry blossom” instead of “sakura”, because we have the same flowers in English speaking countries, and we call them cherry blossoms – no need to invent or incorporate a new word here. However, with “katana”, we’re talking about a very specific kind of sword not made in English speaking countries, and which cannot be very effectively described by phrases such as “Japanese sword”. How boring if we’re just going to restrict ourselves to putting the modified “Japanese” before every noun that we want to talk about! (Japanese snack, anyone?) Similarly, Koseki is a family register system that is unique to Japan. Therefore I think we should use the Japanese word for it. 122.27.250.213 (talk) 06:53, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I agree emphatically, use Japanese word when they are better at describing the item than the English phrase, e.g. sushi sounds better than raw fish, so that is appropriate. There is a legitimate reason for using the Japanese word. In the case of Koseki, the only reason --Mak Allen (talk) 10:53, 17 June 2008 (UTC)for using the Japanese word is to impress people who now less about Japan than you do that you know a Japanese word. It also indicates that the speaker is unable to differentiate the languages and concepts in one's mind. I don't mean to be critical, but you see this all the time, such as transliterating Japanese names into English, but leaving the word order. If you have spent anytime listening to people speak Japlish, you know the only thing worse is listening to someone speak Engese! Thanks for your thoughts.--Mak Allen (talk) 09:12, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply, and in retrospect, you might be right in this case. Usually I do prefer the Japanese words (or the words of whatever language we're talking about) to be used if there is no equivalent in English, but I guess we have to draw the line somewhere and it would be taking things a bit too far to insist on using the native language word for everything that is not exactly the same in English. But where to draw the line? I guess we have no choice but to leave it up to common sense and the forces of language usage/change. For my two-cents though, I much prefer the use of "Kabushiki Kaisha" to "Company Limited", as an example, because if someone tells me it's a K.K., then I know exactly what it is, and how it's structured (by law), but if someone says it's a Co. Ltd., then I'm really left no wiser as to the status of the 'company'. So, what I'm saying I guess is that I just prefer for terminology to be as specific as it can be, wherever practical. Mac, how do you feel about this kind of thing? - 122.27.250.213 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.43.35.146 (talk) 10:42, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Yea, I feel you on the incorporation issue, e.g. GmbH, etc. However, for prose I think we should be careful about natural speech. C S (talk) points out on the discussion page of Japanese alias that neither juminhyo or koseki appear in standard English dictionaries. I think we should rename this page. Dissenters?--Mak Allen (talk) 02:52, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Last chance! I am moving this page unless someone feels otherwise. Thanks.--Mak Allen (talk) 10:53, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I would also oppose a change to the article name. As there doesn't seem to be any consensus here for a move, I would suggest taking it to Wikipedia:Requested moves if you still feel strongly that the article should be moved. --DAJF (talk) 11:44, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Proposed merge

Please do not leave your comments here. Leave your comments at Talk:Family register. Thanks.--Mak Allen (talk) 05:32, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

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