Talk:Kirk Hotel (Tooele, Utah)

Move to draft

I moved this page to draft because:

• The first sentence, about the 2013 listing, is not supported by the source[1] which gives Janury 2020 as the date (the primary source, the request for registration, dates to 2019...)
• "It was converted into apartments in 1983."? Not true, was in 1973
• Reference three states "with accompanying pictures", but that link gives "file not found"
• The infobox links to [2] which gives no results. Looking for the Kirk Hotel at that site gives no results either[3].

For such a short article, and from an experience editor, this is too many errors to be put in the mainspace. Fram (talk) 10:16, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

I fixed the errors and added a little. The ref for the NRHPDOC works, the NRIS ref in the infobox is a standard problem common to many NRHP articles and is being discussed at the template TP. MB 15:31, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

You fixed one error, the 2013 date, in one of the two locations it was stated only. You fixed error 2. You didn't fix error 3. You didn't fix error 4. That's 1 1/2 out of 4. Fram (talk) 15:57, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

It appears to me that User:Fram's action was inappropriate. They are wp:INVOLVED in issue(s) with me, and I object to their personal attack-type comments and tone here and in past interactions. Here, there was/is no question of notability about the topic, and the move to Draftspace by Fram appears to me to be unjustified, and in the larger context appears to me to be malicious, an instance of harassment. If someone has a problem with me asserting that here, well, it is subject for further ANI or Arbitration type follow-on action, where I will support the assertion.

I did not myself notice a discrepancy between sources, that the list-article National Register of Historic Places listings in Tooele County (permalink to relevant version) showed an incorrect NRHP listing date of October 16, 2013, which was not accurate. In order to avoid errors, I was following good practice to copy-paste coordinates and other info from that Wikipedia page into the draft here. By checking at elkman.net/nrhp I found that the NRHP refnum and other info such as listing date was not supported by the often-relevant standard NRIS reference, so I presumed (correctly) that the Tooele County NRHP listings page's info was sourced instead from a "weekly listings" page and I made a point to locate and reference that. I apparently confirmed that the site was covered there, probably verifying the reference number, but I did not notice the listing date differed. Apparently the editor who added this item to the Tooele County NRHP listings page, using that source, worked by copying from the next row for Lawrence Brothers and Company Store which had the 2013 listing date. No big deal, but they didn't put in the correct date.

And, as MB addresses, the unhelpful link from infobox is a built-in general problem applying to links from refnums in perhaps 60,000 articles' NRHP infoboxs and in 60,000 rows within NRHP list-articles, which I myself have been explicitly trying to address, currently at wt:NRHP and at Template talk:NRHP row#fix template to drop linking of refnum to any URL, which almost always poorly serves readers. It does not reflect any error at all on my part in this article.

Also, in my adapting a standard reference to NRHP registration document, I correctly updated the main (usually text-only) link but did not remove the standard photos link which reads "with accompanying photos". I should have put in "Includes 42 photos from 2019" as descriptor of the main link, and dropped the usually separate photos link. Big whup. And gee, I typo'd in entering the year of conversion from hotel to apartments as 1983 when it should have been 1973. Big whup. It would be fine to correct the small errors or tag the article and post question/issue to the Talk page, but IMO it is obnoxious to make the personal-based assertions here and in edit summraries, and it is an abuse of admin power to twice move the article to draftspace. Fram might have asked what was going on, relating to cause of the listing date discrepancy, or to the unhelpful link from infobox, for which in fact there existed good explanations. But frankly I am sure they were happy to find fault and make personal attack, and don't give a whit about the substance. I take the time to write this out on expectation of further, future trouble with editor Fram.

Thank you User:MB for assisting with refining the article and in responding here.

--Doncram (talk) 20:25, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

Not an admin, no admin action, so WP:INVOLVED plays no role here. I did new page patrolling, your page appeared there, and the number of errors compared to the amount of information in it was dreadful. "Harassment" is a nice term to throw around, what was the last time I interacted with you or your articles? You are responsible for your own edits, blaming your error on someone else getting it wrong on Wikipedia is just indicative that Wikipedia is not a reliable source, and you shouldn't get your information from there. Finally, what personal attack? That you are an experienced editor? Oh no, what a terrible attack. You claim that I made "personal-based assertions here and in edit summraries", which is false. Feel free to bring this up at ANI or ArbCom (well, this isn't ArbCom ready by a long stretch, but you are free to try anyway), but please don't repeat unfounded allegations of PAs and harassment (and "abuse of amind power"!), as these actually are personal attacks. Fram (talk) 08:14, 12 January 2021 (UTC)