Talk:Kinderhook plates

Joseph Smith section

The recent edits adding the quote from History of the Church as the first part of that section is highly POV, especially in the attempt to cite that quote as explicitly coming from Joseph Smith Jr. -- 208.81.184.4 (talk) 18:55, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

I've made some changes which should help with NPOV & also inserted an inline cite of who is making a particular claim. -- 208.81.184.4 (talk) 19:34, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

As a prophet or not as a prophet

I removed “Furthermore there is evidence that Joseph Smith didn't act in prophet's role during translation of Kinderhook plates” added by anonymous user (79.209.48.198) and the reference added by (208.81.184.4).

The sentence and reference are immaterial and confusing. Most readers do not recognize Joseph Smith as a prophet or understand the complicated implications of what it means to “act in a prophet’s role” or not act in a prophet’s role in Latter-day Saint culture.

The anonymous users who added the information most likely want to present different alternatives to Joseph Smith’s involvement with the plates than what some critics of Smith proclaim. The Deseret News article isn’t the answer. Wait until something is published that reaches deeper. The result may end up the same but Rhett Wilkinson’s article doesn’t add value.

I think most can agree that the Kinderhook plates were a modern creation, Joseph Smith intended a translation, either revelatory or by traditional means, and there is no existing text derived by Joseph from the plates. It seems unwise to defend or attack something that isn’t there.

Matthew R. Lee 03:56, August 15, 2011 (UTC)

I merely formatted & completed the citation added by 79.209.48.198 (dif). -- 208.81.184.4 (talk) 22:42, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

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I'd like to remove History of the Church section, or at least move it to a footnote

The History of the Church is NOT a reliable source. I'd like to place the following section into a footnote, but realize this might be controversial, so am presenting the idea here for discussion:

The History of the Church also states Smith said the following:[11]

I have translated a portion of [the plates] and find they contain the history of the person with whom they were found. He was a descendant of Ham, through the loins of Pharaoh, king of Egypt, and that he received his kingdom from the ruler of heaven and earth.

Stanley B. Kimball says the statement found in History of the Church could have been an altered version of William Clayton's statement, placing Smith in the first person.[12] Diane Wirth, writing in Review of Books on the Book of Mormon (2:210), states: "A first-person narrative was apparently a common practice of this time period when a biographical work was being compiled. Since such words were never penned by the Prophet, they cannot be uncritically accepted as his words or his opinion".[13]

Epachamo (talk) 15:40, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

The source for the History of the Church citation is from the journal of Joseph Smith's personal secretary, William Clayton, and thus constitutes a reliable source. Kornbelt888 (talk) 23:07, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

The Kinderhook plates and their metaphysical translation by Joseph Smith are part of LDS/Mormon history ConnieBland (talk) 07:15, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

Unreadable image/document

Image attached https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/ec/Kinderhook_Plates_Broadside.gif to the entry is unreadable ConnieBland (talk) 07:07, 26 January 2020 (UTC)