Talk:Killing of Timothy Russell and Malissa Williams

Latest comment: 2 years ago by Overlordnat1 in topic Shooting section

michael brelo

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should there be a page for Michael Brelo? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.51.236.225 (talk) 17:49, 28 May 2015 (UTC)Reply

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Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 18:58, 1 April 2016 (UTC)Reply

Requested move 26 September 2020

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The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus. After much-extended time for discussion, no consensus has been developed in favor of the proposed move. BD2412 T 21:07, 17 November 2020 (UTC)Reply

Shooting of Timothy Russell and Malissa WilliamsKilling of Timothy Russell and Malissa Williams – The perpetrators fired a total of 137 shots. Each victim was struck at least 23 times each. The victims were unarmed. The victims were both killed. One of the perpetrators jumped on the trunk of the car and continued to fire. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 14:56, 26 September 2020 (UTC) Relisting. Primefac (talk) 17:10, 3 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

Should be moved per CONSISTENCY with all these articles below about shootings resulting in a death:--- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 05:47, 27 September 2020 (UTC)Reply
AND...
  1. List of killings by law enforcement officers by country
  2. List of killings by law enforcement officers in Canada
  3. List of killings by law enforcement officers in China
  4. List of killings by law enforcement officers in Germany
  5. List of killings by law enforcement officers in Poland
  6. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United Kingdom
  7. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States prior to 2009
  8. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, 2009
  9. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, 2011
  10. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, April 2010
  11. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, April 2012
  12. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, April 2013
  13. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, April 2014
  14. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, April 2015
  15. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, April 2016
  16. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, April 2017
  17. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, April 2018
  18. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, April 2019
  19. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, April 2020
  20. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, August 2010
  21. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, August 2012
  22. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, August 2013
  23. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, August 2014
  24. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, August 2015
  25. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, August 2016
  26. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, August 2017
  27. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, August 2018
  28. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, August 2019
  29. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, August 2020
  30. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, December 2010
  31. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, December 2012
  32. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, December 2013
  33. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, December 2014
  34. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, December 2015
  35. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, December 2016
  36. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, December 2017
  37. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, December 2018
  38. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, December 2019
  39. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, February 2010
  40. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, February 2012
  41. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, February 2013
  42. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, February 2014
  43. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, February 2015
  44. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, February 2016
  45. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, February 2017
  46. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, February 2018
  47. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, February 2019
  48. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, February 2020
  49. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, January 2010
  50. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, January 2012
  51. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, January 2013
  52. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, January 2014
  53. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, January 2015
  54. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, January 2016
  55. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, January 2017
  56. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, January 2018
  57. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, January 2019
  58. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, January 2020
  59. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, July 2010
  60. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, July 2012
  61. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, July 2013
  62. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, July 2014
  63. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, July 2015
  64. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, July 2016
  65. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, July 2017
  66. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, July 2018
  67. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, July 2019
  68. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, July 2020
  69. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, June 2010
  70. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, June 2012
  71. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, June 2013
  72. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, June 2014
  73. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, June 2015
  74. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, June 2016
  75. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, June 2017
  76. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, June 2018
  77. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, June 2019
  78. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, June 2020
  79. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, March 2010
  80. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, March 2012
  81. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, March 2013
  82. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, March 2014
  83. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, March 2015
  84. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, March 2016
  85. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, March 2017
  86. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, March 2018
  87. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, March 2019
  88. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, March 2020
  89. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, May 2010
  90. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, May 2012
  91. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, May 2013
  92. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, May 2014
  93. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, May 2015
  94. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, May 2016
  95. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, May 2017
  96. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, May 2018
  97. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, May 2019
  98. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, May 2020
  99. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, November 2010
  100. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, November 2012
  101. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, November 2013
  102. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, November 2014
  103. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, November 2015
  104. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, November 2016
  105. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, November 2017
  106. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, November 2018
  107. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, November 2019
  108. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, October 2010
  109. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, October 2012
  110. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, October 2013
  111. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, October 2014
  112. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, October 2015
  113. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, October 2016
  114. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, October 2017
  115. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, October 2018
  116. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, October 2019
  117. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, September 2010
  118. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, September 2012
  119. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, September 2013
  120. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, September 2014
  121. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, September 2015
  122. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, September 2016
  123. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, September 2017
  124. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, September 2018
  125. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, September 2019
  126. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, September 2020
  • Neutral. On the basis of the extensive additional detail provided by the nominator, confirming that there is no longer a firm consensus regarding WP:CONSISTENCY as far as "Shooting of..." main title headers are concerned, I am striking my "Oppose" vote of 03:33, 27 September 2020, above. Although I still feel that killing through the use of a firearm is a very determinate form of violence, in comparison to other forms, such as stabbing or strangulation, and therefore should be specified in the main header, the fact that there is no apparent consensus for the header form "Fatal shooting of..." and also the fact that there are a number of "Shooting of.." main headers that delineate non-fatal shootings (Category:Non-fatal shootings), leads me to drop my opposition to the use of "Killing of..." as headers of articles delineating killings through the use of a firearm. —Roman Spinner (talkcontribs) 02:43, 28 September 2020 (UTC)Reply
  • Oppose: If the argument is naming consistency, there are many many more articles about fatal shootings that are named "Shooting of" than "Killing of". Renamings in the other direction would be the way to resolve the fact that a small number of articles are inconsistent with that general convention. —BarrelProof (talk) 04:33, 13 October 2020 (UTC)Reply
Responding to the comment below which might make it appear that "Killing of" has a clearly dominant consensus on Wikipedia, I refer the reader to the RM discussions at Talk:Shooting of Patrick Harmon#Requested move 24 November 2019, Talk:Shooting of Atatiana Jefferson#Requested move 14 May 2020 (multiple), Talk:Shooting of Breonna Taylor/Archive 1#Requested move 23 May 2020 (multiple), Talk:Shooting of David McAtee#3 June 2020, Talk:Shooting of James Scurlock#3 June 2020, Talk:Shooting of Oscar Grant#6 June 2020, Talk:Shooting of Kathryn Johnston#6 June 2020, Talk:Shooting of Sammy Yatim#Requested move 4 June 2020 (multiple), Talk:Shooting of Roni Levi#Requested move 18 June 2020 (multiple), Talk:Shooting of Benno Ohnesorg#Requested move 26 June 2020, Talk:Shooting of Chaiyaphum Pasae#Requested move 26 June 2020, Talk:Shooting of Neda Agha-Soltan#Requested move 2 July 2020, and Talk:Shooting of James Ashley#Requested move 3 July 2020. —BarrelProof (talk) 23:45, 17 October 2020 (UTC)Reply
If you want to do the analysis to check whether that is the common name they go ahead and do it, all I'm saying here is that the nom says there is no common name and that clearly isn't true - reliable sources do tend to refer to this as "shooting" not "killing". FOARP (talk) 10:54, 9 November 2020 (UTC)Reply
I have done the analysis. There is no clear winner between "shooting", "fatal shooting", "killing", or "death". --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 20:13, 10 November 2020 (UTC)Reply
Without showing us the results that confirm this, there is no reason to believe this other than your assertion. "Fatal Shooting of Timothy Russell" returns only five GNews hits. "Death of Timothy Russell" returns only six GNews hits. "Shooting of..." with 14 GNews hits is still the leading formula and as such the WP:COMMONNAME, particularly over the proposed title.
I'm going to AGF, but if you did do the analysis, you never showed your working, and it appears that the usage of these terms can be compared with a clear winner in terms of usage. FOARP (talk) 08:46, 11 November 2020 (UTC)Reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Shooting section

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We need a reliable source for the following sentence in the shooting section, which I have just tagged with citation needed: ‘The amount of gunfire confused the officers into thinking they were being fired at from the vehicle’. The reason is that this sentence surely means that some officers thought that gunfire from other officers was actually coming from the suspects’ car, which is a claim that we don’t have a source for. In any case, we should surely use the word allegedly in this sentence and say something like ‘The amount of gunfire allegedly confused the officers into thinking they were being fired at from the vehicle’ - we shouldn’t take them at their word as they’re not unbiased passive observers, instead they have a strong self-interest in justifying firing the large number of bullets that they did. Overlordnat1 (talk) 03:25, 13 January 2022 (UTC)Reply