Talk:Khizi

Latest comment: 3 years ago by Paine Ellsworth in topic Requested move 9 March 2021

Move discussion in progress

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Requested move 9 March 2021

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

XızıKhizi – Move to "Khizi" per WP:UE/WP:COMMONNAME/WP:ENGLISH. Proof of anglicized name being the common name:

Results from Google News: Khizi: 1,800 Xızı: 3

Results from Google Scholar: Khizi: 167 Xızı: 37

This is the same name but an anglicized version (the current name is made up of Latin letters, but isn't the English spelling of the city). Unlike other small villages, this is a fairly-sized town, which has made a lot of appearances in English-language media, in most of which, "Khizi" has been used much more, establishing its WP:COMMONNAME I'd also like to ask the closing admin to give more attention to the arguments being made rather than the vote counts, as there are people who go over each RM and repeat unrelated policies as an "Oppose" argument.

Additional note: Almost all instances of the English-language media sources use "Khizi" to refer to the city and not the wider Khizi District, therefore "Khizi" being a redirect to the district is wrong. — CuriousGolden (T·C) 10:41, 9 March 2021 (UTC)Reply

  • Oppose. I am not crazy about the practice of "transliterating" place names already written in Latin alphabets. The practice is inherited from Soviet times, when languages of the area used Cyrillic alphabets and there was a legitimate need to do that. With Latin alphabets, the reality is that no one transliterates and few people see a need in that. Azeri is just about the only widely-spoken language in the world that uses a Latin alphabet but also "transliterates" it based on the writer's own understanding of English phonology. Turkish uses the same alphabet, yet no ones gets the idea of transliterating Turkish proper nouns. I believe that 30 years have been enough for the Azeri alphabet to gain a place in the sun and that it does not require to be additionally anglicised. Parishan (talk) 19:39, 9 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
    • This is not about getting rid of Azerbaijani letters or its version of spellings. This exact thing was discussed twice in a similar RM a few weeks ago in Talk:Sharur#Requested move 10 February 2021. We can use the non-anglicized version only if the settlement is completely uncovered in English media (e.g. tiny villages) or its non-anglicized version is the common name (like in Gdańsk), per WP:UE. There's absolutely no reason to keep the non-anglicized version when the anglicized name is in common use among English-language media. — CuriousGolden (T·C) 19:44, 9 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
      • I do not believe any of these places, big or small, are well enough represented in quality English-language sources to claim an established common name. This Google-based quest for determining common names for places quite removed from English-language contexts, often reflecting sources of questionable reliability, has already led us to POV monstrosities like "Hin Tagher". It would be a pity to see this done to more articles. Parishan (talk) 19:58, 9 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
        • WP:GOOGLETEST exists. Using Google to find the common name is common practice and it's not up to my or your opinion to think if it's well-represented enough, especially when there are almost 2,000 results for "Khizi" on the News and almost 200 on Scholarly articles/books. We're on the English Wikipedia, we're supposed to use the common English name, not a foreign language name which has letters that most English Wikipedia viewers don't even have on their keyboard. — CuriousGolden (T·C) 20:03, 9 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
          • I do not see how a search engine test is more reliable than data from English-language gazetteers, which are directories specially created for conventionalising English-language placenames. The "not-having-on-one's-keyboard" argument is not genuine: most English-speaking people do not have "ç" on their keyboards but this is no reason to rename pages containing the name "façade" or "François". In fact, most European languages use special characters not found in English, and this does not seem to cause any trouble in naming pages. Why should Azeri be any different, when even Turkish is not? No one is having trouble with Çanakkale, for example. All Azeri characters are Unicode-friendly and well reflected on any operating system from 1998 or later. I really have no idea why this is a problem. Parishan (talk) 20:16, 9 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
            • Not having it on their keyboard isn't an argument. My arguments were presented above with clear sources and policies backing my change. This is not a case of changing Azeri names just because "it doesn't have English letters", there's an established name for this city in English-language media and Wikipedia policies tell us to prefer that over the native, non-English language. And that is exactly what I'm trying to do. — CuriousGolden (T·C) 20:20, 9 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.