Talk:Kenzō Tange/GA1

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

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Reviewer: Jappalang (talk) 13:58, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

   The language is mostly clear, but there seems to be some awkward ones. MOS is mostly complied with an exception. See below for details.

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

   Not certain if there are sources that give criticisms of the man or his style...

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

   Image of the man has uncertainties over its licensing. Images of his work in Italy are not granted freedom of panorama; hence, they are considered violations of his copyright in Italy.

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

   Hopefully, the issues can be resolved to pass this.

• Several paragraphs of information are not cited to sources. The general practice here for verifiability is to at least cite each paragraph to a reliable source.
  • Osaka Exposition 1970 is totally unsourced.
  • Note that there are still several sentences (usually at the end of paragraphs) that are uncited.

• The Guardian orbituaries (in Later career) should be an inline reference, not embedded into the text.
  • Similar to above, why are artonline.jp/librino/index.html and www.sogetsu.or.jp/english/hall/index.html embedded in Selected projects section? Are they meant to serve as citations or external links?

• The section header "CIAM" should be the full name instead.

• "On the strength of his competition win for Hiroshima Peace Memorial Park, Tange was invited by Kunio Maekawa to attend the Congres International d'Architecture Moderne (CIAM)."

  "Tange's first placing in the design competition for the Hiroshima Peace Memorial Park design gained him recognition from Kunio Maekawa. The elder architect invited Tange to attend the Congres International d'Architecture Moderne (CIAM)."

• "By the 1951 CIAM meeting that was held in Hoddesdon, England, to which Tange was invited, the Athens Charter became to be debated by the younger members of the group as "The Urban Core"."

  Are the "younger members" a group known as "The Urban Core" or were they part of a group known as "The Urban Core"?

  Umm... it is still not clear to me who they are. If you could answer here, perhaps I could help to clarify the sentence? Jappalang (talk) 00:35, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

• "The facade is regulated into an a-b-a-a-b-a rhythm covered by a two tier roof."

  What is "an a-b-a-a-b-a rhythm"?

  Might I suggest "The facade is designed with rhythmic pattern; it comprises two types of facade designs ("a" and "b") that are ordered laterally in an a-b-a-a-b-a arrangement. The house is topped with a two-tier roof."? Jappalang (talk) 00:35, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

• "His experiences at the conference may have led him to set the fifth year a project to design a 25,000 person residential community to be erected in Boston over the bay."

  I am not really getting a clear meaning of this... Do you mean "His experiences at the conference may have led him to design a residential community in Boston over the bay for 25,000 people as his fifth year project."?

• "For Reyner Banham Tange was a prime example of the use of Brutalism and his use of concrete had great influence on British architects in the 1960s."

  In what ways were Tange's work examples of "Brutalism" (whatever that is). Explain Brutalism and describe which aspects of Tange's work fall in line with this concept.

• File:Kenzo Tange.jpg

  As far as I can tell, the source does not seem to state the photograph is licensed under the Creative Commons scheme.

  The image has been removed;

  Note that I have uploaded it to Wikipedia and used it in fair use (identification of the deceased subject); this is allowed per policy, but the image on Commons is likely a violation of copyright and should not be used. Jappalang (talk) 03:44, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

• File:Hiroshima Peace Monument.jpg

  This is not a building, hence it does not qualify for commercial Japanese commons:Commons:Freedom of panorama. Photographs on Wikipedia and Commons must be available for all uses.

• File:Centro direzionale di Nap.jpg, File:Palazzo BMW laterale.JPG

  Italy does not grant freedom of panorama for anything.

• File:Heiwa-kinenkan.jpg

  It would be best to get confirmation by a Ja-wiki admin on the license of this file when it was uploaded to their server.

• File:American Medical Association HQ.JPG

  It would be best to get confirmation by an admin here on the license of this file when it was uploaded to this server.

• Please fill in the ISBNs for Twentieth Century Architecture and Kenzo Tange (is the latter this book?). Jappalang (talk) 00:35, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

• Please also fill in the page number in The Japan Architect for the mention on Tange's Hiroshima Peace Memorial.

• "... enrolled at a film division in the art department."

  "Art department" of which school or institution? Jappalang (talk) 03:38, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

  Noted and corrected. Kenchikuben (talk) 15:28, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

  Note that we have "... enrolled in the film division at the University of Tokyo's art department." followed by "Tange began his tertiary studies in 1935 at University of Tokyo's Department of Engineering." I am more apt to believe that Tange's university education was with engineering. The "enroll" in the first sentence could be construed as his starting of university education, which I think is not the case. What exactly did he do with the film division? Jappalang (talk) 16:06, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

  He was studying film whilst trying to secure a place studying architecture at Department of Engineering.Kenchikuben (talk) 18:29, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

  Apparently, there is more to it than was said. I have expanded on it. Jappalang (talk) 23:10, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

• "... in connection with a competition for the National Bank ..."

  Was he in Manchuria to take part in the competition, or was he there because the company sent him along? Which National Bank? Jappalang (talk) 03:38, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

  The source is not explicit about which bank, therefore I have amended the sentence to be less specific. Kenchikuben (talk) 15:28, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

• "... and returned via Japanese-occupied Jehol."

  Is this needed? What importance does it play in his life? Jappalang (talk) 03:38, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

  Please see my comments about the Unité d'Habitation below. Kenchikuben (talk) 15:28, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

• "Tange became an assistant professor ..."

  With which university (since it is said that he left Imperial University at the end of the Second World War)? Jappalang (talk) 03:38, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

  Noted and corrected. Kenchikuben (talk) 15:28, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

• "... near the hypo centre."

  What is "the hypo centre"? Jappalang (talk) 03:38, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

  Noted and wikilink added. Kenchikuben (talk) 15:28, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

• Not really sure what relevance to Tange is his visits of designs and architecture... e.g. Le Corbusier's nearly complete Unité d'Habitation and sketches for the new capital of Punjab. Jappalang (talk) 03:38, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

  It is important for architects to experience architecture and also other cultures. The sentence about Manchuria and Jehol demonstrate that at a time when international travel amongst the Japanese was still limited he had taken this opportunity to explore. Likewise, Corbusier's Unité d'Habitation and Indian projects were seminal projects of twentieth century modernist architecture and were probably of subsequent influence to his work. Kenchikuben (talk) 15:28, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

  I am unable to see how just putting him at the site describes that. Such a point would require some rephrasing and perhaps re-organisation to get it across. The last part "were probably of subsequent influence" hints of original research (unless a source states that, such a statement or thought should not be in the article). Regardless, I see nothing that can be objected over the current statements in the article. They just seem superfluous to me. Jappalang (talk) 16:06, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

• "... the bomb documentation central to the architectural design."

  What does this mean? Jappalang (talk) 03:38, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

  Noted and wikilink added. Kenchikuben (talk) 15:28, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

• "... traditional Japanese Haniwa houses."

  Is Haniwa referring to Haniwa? If so, are there terracota houses? Jappalang (talk) 03:38, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

  Noted and corrected. Kenchikuben (talk) 15:28, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

• "His proposals were partially implemented, namely the New Skopje Railway Station and the so-called City Wall."

  Unsourced Jappalang (talk) 03:38, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

  Noted and removed. Kenchikuben (talk) 15:28, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

• "... Le Corbusier's Phillips pavilion ...", "... roof of the Philips pavilion ..."

  Which is it, double or single "l"? Jappalang (talk) 03:38, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

  Noted and corrected. Kenchikuben (talk) 15:28, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

• "The concrete support system also carries the upper tier of seating."

  The seating are built on the system, or the system bears the strain of them? Jappalang (talk) 03:38, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

  Noted and better explained. Kenchikuben (talk) 15:28, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

• "In 1965 it was decided that Japan should host the 1970 Exposition."

  Who decided? Jappalang (talk) 03:38, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

  Noted and corrected. Kenchikuben (talk) 15:28, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Just the above for the moment. Jappalang (talk) 13:58, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks Jappalang for taking the time to review this article. I've tried to address all the points you have raised above. I have removed all of the contentious photos. I have added a couple more that have Creative Commons 3 licenses and have been photographed by the uploaders. I have included references for every paragraph; changed the CIAM section heading; made your suggested amendments to the text; and tried to make the Brutalist and "a-b-a" sentences clearer. I've also amended the Guardian Obituary reference in Later Career, is it now looking the way it should?

I've not found any specific criticisms of his work, but I'll continue to research this and add anything if I find it. Is this likely to prevent it from becoming a GA? Thanks again. Kenchikuben (talk) 19:17, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

No. If there are no reliable sources that offer criticism, then there is nothing wrong in having an article that does not offer any (the NPOV policy is based on the existence of such reliable sources). However, it behooves the editor to first exhaust all reasonable possibilites in searching for such opinions. Jappalang (talk) 00:35, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

He is one of those great masters nobody dares to write anything negative about, hence so hard to find comments about his buildings from his later career ;). I don't understand why File:Heiwa-kinenkan.jpg and File:American Medical Association HQ.JPG need confirmation? --Elekhh (talk) 03:01, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Somwhat like Lat (a Malaysian cartoonist who seems to have no faults), I guess. As for the photographs, the trail of records that one can use to verify the claims of authorship and licensing are broken when they are moved to Commons (since Commons files "overwrites" former local files); as such, it is not possible for non-administrators to verify those information. Jappalang (talk) 03:22, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

I've incorporated your text for the "a-b-a" (it reads much better!); I re-read the source for "Urban Core" and wrote the paragraph again; and I filled in the missing ISBNs. I wasn't sure which page number you needed for the Japan Architect, the only reference to it is footnote 18 which has a page number. Unfortunately, I can't find my reference for: "Unfortunately his proposals were only partially implemented, namely the New Skopje Railway Station and the so-called City Wall". The fact is backed up on 1963 Skopje earthquake, but that is also unreferenced. If it's a problem for this review then feel free to remove it and I'll add again when I find it. Thanks again. Kenchikuben (talk) 19:14, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

I would like to pass this as a GA, but in light of the recent edits I made to it, I am going to ask for another editor to second my thoughts or spot something I have overlooked.[1] Jappalang (talk) 23:10, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

2nd opinion I made a few minor corrections. I see no other issues. At this point, I would have no objection to calling the article good. Aaron north (talk) 03:43, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Okay, thank you for the lookover. This is now a GA. Jappalang (talk) 04:05, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.