Talk:Kastellorizo

Untitled

I am not sure if part of the houses were destroyed by the detonation or by a british air raid in 1944.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Dskandaliaris (talk) • contribs) 18:42, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

I removed this masonic flag:

Flag of Kastellorizo.

The island does not have a an official flag let alone one that looks like some kind of masonic symbol. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.170.183.30 (talk) 18:41, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

I have seen this flag flying in Castellorizo, it flies alongside the Greek flag where the ferries come in. Can someone confirm the poster aboves concern? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Noid83 (talk • contribs) 10:45, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

Untitled

I tried to correct the history section, because there were several errors. For example:

1. Egypt, when conquered Kastellorizo, was independent and not yet ottoman;
2. in the thirties Alitalia did not exist yet;
3. Kastellorizo joined Greece only with the Treaty of Paris;

and so on...

Thanks, alex2006 15:54, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Why name in Turkish?

I don't understand why there is a mention of how the island is called in Turkish. Do we need to write down how all Greek Islands are called in Turkish because they are just close to the border? Or maybe there exist some undercover notions that the island is not Greek?--Ravenous75 13:57, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

This is a good question. Actually, I don't think that Turkey has any claim on the island. On the other side, I think that this info can be useful for the tourists who reach Kastellorizo coming from Anatolia. Moreover, the root of the turkish name is greek...while the one of the greek name is italian! So, I suggest to keep it.

alex2006 08:23, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Because, we just know their Turkish names. :) We don't understand the greek ones. :D That's why, we write their Turkish names... ;) alsar83 17:00, 03 November 2008 (UTC)

Rosso

reddish colour of the rocks of the island What is your source on this? The rocks are not red, more grey. --5telios 13:25, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Name of article

The island's official name is Megisti, Google Earth calls it Megisti, the Times Atlas of the World call it Megisti. Since Castellorizo is its old Italian name, ought the article not be moved to Megisti? Adam 07:41, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Kastellorizo is not the old italian name: the italian name is Castelrosso. Kastellorizo is also a greek name, which is used by the Greeks too. alex2006 10:02, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

OK, it's a Greek version of an Italian name. But it's not the current Greek name of the island. Adam 11:31, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I would not say so. The current Greek name of the island is Kastellorizon (for the origin of the name please read the article). Megisti is the official Greek name. I have been there last summer, (and I'll return there next week ;-)), and the inhabitants talk about Kastellorizon, not Megisti. To be convinced, please look which name is used for the island on the Greek wikipedia...

alex2006 12:17, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Prophet Elias

Do you think we should mention the old custom of throwing people in the water of the harbor on the day of Prophet Elias. I know that it is not vital, but a visitor may be well suprised when it happens to him or her...—Preceding unsigned comment added by Dskandaliaris (talk) • contribs) 03:35, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

It is already mentioned, in the section about the old customs and superstitions.

Alex2006 09:34, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

The page says the day is in December while in reality it is in June. Should I correct it?

You're right - I found an online source and corrected it. Yngvadottir (talk) 15:04, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Emigration

There is an old community of Greeks from Kastelorizo, living in (and around) Florianopolis, Brazil. One of last year's carnaval theme songs (2008) was an homage to Captain Savas, a native of Kastelorizo who initiated the settlement of emigrants from Kastelorizo..... on another island (Florianopolis) in Brazil.

Here's the link to YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMyJxJs7MkA

The lyrics tell the story of Savas....and the Kastellorizo emigrants...their community...etc.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.234.13.75 (talk) 04:41, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Pictures

I've uploaded a picture i've taken to wikimedia: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Castelorizo.JPG I thought a close up picture to the architecture of the island would be usefull so there it is. So go ahead and add it to the article if you so wish. Winnie667 (talk) 11:47, 30 October 2009 (UTC) winnie667

Important History of the Island not mentioned!

I respectfully advise or suggest that you include the following information into this site!

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernat_I_de_Vilamarí

It is a Wikipedia site, but unfortunately it is in Spanish, and I cannot well translate it! But, it is a related element that has no mention in the current site! 69.92.23.64 (talk) 18:55, 15 December 2010 (UTC)Ronald L. Hughes

I will do it! As Italian, is not that difficult... :-) Cheers, Alex2006 (talk) 14:14, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Lozan

Hah! Thanks IP. I was expecting someone to do that edition. (I am also expecting you to become Usually 79160, Former79160 or Still curious... :-) --E4024 (talk) 18:09, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

Latin or Italian?

I've now reverted two editors - an IP and a named account - changing Latin "castellum" to Italian "castello" in the etymology section. Which is correct depends on the date - "the Byzantine era" is kind of vague but definitely begins when it was still Latin - and more importantly, what reliable sources say, since of course the Italian word is derived from the Latin one. So, what do the sources say? Yngvadottir (talk) 13:45, 29 November 2013 (UTC)

Hallo, This source say that the castle which gave its name to the island is medieval, not roman, and there is no trace of a roman watchtower ("castellum") on Megisti. I strongly doubt that the byzantine in the middle age were wiling to give a Latin name to the castle (if they built it at all): the Greek name is "Kastron", not Castello. Moreover, the ending in -o is clearly Tuscan. The island - like the whole Levante - in the late middle age was part of the sphere of influence of the italian sea republics, and the whole Lycia is full of italian toponyms (last here I bathed on the coast almost in front of the the island in a bay named Ceneviz limani => genoese harbor). Cheers Alex2006 (talk) 14:24, 29 November 2013 (UTC)

All that source says is that the castle is medieval (and that there's an ancient Greek inscription on the rocks below it), so it's drawing conclusions to assume that's the original castle that gave it its name, especially since we're talking about "Byzantine Greeks" in the article, which can indicate a period long before the late Middle Ages. (The island presumably went through changes before the 1306 one mentioned in your source.) Can you find a scholarly source specifically on the etymology? It's the (scholarly) theory we're presenting in that section. It may well be from the Italian, but it should be established one way or another from a source saying so, not by inference. Yngvadottir (talk) 16:25, 29 November 2013 (UTC)

The whole sentence is unsourced, this means, also the reference to the byzantine Greeks (who spoke Greek and would have never used a Latin word to describe a castle). Anyway, I found a source written by Greek archaeologist which explicitly explain the origin of the name, and I changed the sentence accordingly. Alex2006 (talk) 07:04, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I think that's good enough, thanks, although it could be clearer about which language the name originated in. I've tweaked things a little bit. However, many things on Wikipedia are unreferenced (often left over from early days when references were not required). The way it works is that someone making a change - particularly an addition - needs to provide a reference if someone raises a question. (As I did and you did :-) ) Drawing a conclusion from the fact the island was at some point under the sway of the Italian Republics is synthesis and is not allowed. Thanks again :-) Yngvadottir (talk) 20:30, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

What you write is fully correct. I wrote a great part of the article some years, but ãs soon as I will have five minutes I have to review it, since I have the impression that things have been added without citations or - what is worse - using my old citations to support other things. Bye :-) Alex2006 (talk) 06:45, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

The name Megisti was proposed by the Perth Australian diaspora to the Greek government and was never used in any ancient Greek text that I could find. The name Kastellorizo according to neighbouring islands was never used until Italian colonisation. Upon investigating the life of Giovanni Battista Aglio, I believe he gave the island it's first official name Kastellorizo. The islands nearby referred to it as the rock or rock island (petroniso). It remained an uncharted island or uninhabitable place for most of it's life. The Italians tried to inflate the sustainable life on the island during the colonization of the dodecanese, but it was and still is not capable of sustaining more than a few thousand people. So it's population has always been transient. Currently only 500 or so people live there. A very high number of Kastellorizian families are infact Anatolian, Egyptian etc that moved there during the period post 1821 an upto 1948. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.170.183.30 (talk) 18:35, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

HISTORY IS FABRICATED The history of island is fabricated from disjointed facts. There never was a castle on the island, it was a small pirate stronghold or fortress. It swapped hands and was destroyed so many times. The Saraceans and Germanics both used the island because it was usually unmonitored and was hidden enough to form a solid naval base during the Crusades. The article makes a false claim regarding the island belonging to the Rhodes circle of influence. The island was an extension to Lycia and often used as a lighthouse during the BC era. The Lycians that originally inhabited the island were not Greeks. The Greeks arrived after the Persian wars although Hellenism had already been spreading in a general sense. The Turks colonized the island in the 15th century as part of their strategy to secured the ghost town of KAS in Lycia. Lycia was depopulated and was vulnerable to invasion so the Turks increased the population in the region and this also included colonisation of the island. The Greeks that appeared on the island during teh Italian Colonisation period came as refugees primarily from Anatolia via Lycia and from Egypt via Cyprus.

CULTURE AND TRADITIONS DO NOT NEED TO REPEAT THE NATURE OF GREEK ORTHODOX CUSTOMS Also the traditions and culture are oxymorons if it is a Greek island then the culture is Greek if the island has something that is not Greek but unique it should be mentioned. Way too much is said about the island and has very little substantiation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.182.52.162 (talk) 19:17, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

PROPOSAL FOR DELTETION OF REFERENCES (The Author is biased and has fabricated the history of the island with very little academic research involved. What Nicholas Pappas claims is contradicted by Greek, Egyptian and Turkish sources, which makes using these references somewhat biased and inappropriate.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.182.52.162 (talk) 19:23, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Hi. We (now) require references to reliable sources. Research on the ground, by asking islanders and so on, doesn't meet that standard. Please find a published source or two. Yngvadottir (talk) 20:04, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Population of other islands, if any

An editor removed the population figures for two smaller islands included in the municipality, stating that the 2011 census shows them as uninhabited. Can we have a citation for that, please? For the moment I have removed the word "uninhabited" so that there is no statement at all about those islands' population. Yngvadottir (talk) 13:21, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Try http://www.statistics.gr/portal/page/portal/ESYE/BUCKET/General/resident_population_census2011.xls --T*U (talk) 13:54, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, forgot to say; Ro is entry 18430 and Strongyli 18431. --T*U (talk) 16:35, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, confirmed them, and I see now that the article already said at another point that those two do not have permanent inhabitants. The articles on Ro, Greece and Strongyli Kastellorizou should be updated ... Yngvadottir (talk) 19:56, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Kastellorizo.net

Apologies if I do any mistakes, as I am relatively new in editing wikipedia (but I do have an extensive past in using computers since 1984).

The past days I am trying to defend the inclusion of the Kastellorizo.net website in Wikipedia's Kastellorizo page. I am listing the reasons here:

1. All the information is provided in both Greek and English (side by side), to make things easier for all readers, especially as most Kastellorizians are now living in Australia, some of whom know little or no Greek.

2. It contains valuable information (in both Greek an English) regarding the origin of the name, including photos of the covers of extremely important, valuable and rare books. Those covers can be easily recognised even by both Greek and Engish readers.

3. There are direct links towards important old videos (1929 and 1943/4) which are extremely difficult to find. Such videos were only recently seen by most inhabitants through the Kastellorizo.net. The goal is to have a unified point of reference for such archived multimedia.

4. There is a direct communication with the seismic spot of the island. The base for this was added only recently (three months ago) and one can check the seismic activity that occurred a couple of minutes ago.

5. This site has been used as an "unofficially official" prompt reference, mainly because the Municipality's website has not been updated for ages (due to election objections for the Mayor's seat which are taking place for five years and have resulted in many things staying stalled). It is not a perfect website as there are only a handful of computer literate people, but it is made with a lot of effort, dedication, and focusing in giving as much valuable information as possible in many aspects.

6. Many maps, including a nautical one, and a huge old map (for archive purposes) which was directly donated to Kastellorizo.net by the Pireaus Kastellorizian Association (St. Constantine) and we have been granted permission to place it online. More old maps to be added, including some French maps (~1940) which were recently acquired, but we need to find time to scan them too.

Apart from this, it contains a lot more useful information, including a continuously updated phone list, which is not used just for touristic purposed. As an example, the mobile phone of the only doctor of the island may change, and it is critical for all of us to have the correct one available somewhere which is updated. The island is isolated, and too small, there are many problems, and one of this site's reason of existence is to help fight those problems. For those who do not know, last January, a 57 old inhabitant died of heart attack in his quest to find the doctor. I repeat, I am not saying the story about the doctor as a reason to include it, but rather to justify that there are many issues which are different in non-isolated places and are not really related to tourists.

Most importantly, please note that this page has absolutely no interest in any commercial gain.

Being someone who lives in Kastellorizo, and knowing the situation first hand, I kindly request for this link to be reinstated. If not, and based on all of the above, please explain to me its removal. That is, if such information is not regarded as valuable, I strongly believe wikipedia should seriously redefine the reasons of having the external links paragraph. I went through all the 19 points mentioned regarding the spam reasoning, and I fail to understand where has this gone wrong. I repeat, the site is written in both Greek and English to make it also as user-friendly as possible and to provide valuable information.

Thank you,

Pantazis — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pantazis Houlis (talk • contribs) 16:48, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

Hi Pantazis. The picture archive is a good argument for the inclusion of the site, but I'm afraid the list of phone numbers is a strong argument against it: Wikipedia is not a directory, and we don't include online phone listings in external links. The Wikipedia article is intended primarily for a general readership, rather than for Kastellorizans abroad. Is there a History section of the site that could be linked to, rather than its homepage? Yngvadottir (talk) 17:30, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

Hi to everyone.

I still cannot understand how such a site can be branded as touristic. Yes, one page has some local phone numbers, but other pages contain much more of valuable information, and more information is being added piece by piece. An excellent example is the enigmas page, which showcases that not only there is history with puzzles (note the photo of a puzzle magazine from 1899), but even today, most of the puzzling activity happens in that island.

Myself, I am a mathematician, I used to work at the University of Western Australia for many years (research associate and lecturer), but I returned to use the island as my base last year (I could not stay longer away from it). My work now is focusing on finding efficient ways for education (right now I am in India for a collaboration - I am sure you could see my IP address), and will be back to Kastellorizo in ten days.

Also, my dad has a huge archive with hundreds of rare photos/slides from the 60s (to be added), some of which are already linked. I could also create a gallery, but that takes time.

I am really giving up, as this issue has discouraged me a lot. Probably, the only way to convince people of how informative this site is in different ways, is to bring them to Kastellorizo, show them around (I do a lot of trekking every day, since I was a kid), and showcase this knowledge to make the connection. It is a site made to share knowledge with everyone, not (just) tourists.

Pantazis — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pantazis Houlis (talk • contribs) 18:31, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

External links modified

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Names

The alternative names of the island are reported following this naming convention, using a dedicated section "Name and etymology". Alex2006 (talk) 08:45, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

I don't understand why my edit was reverted.

I just added the Turkish name for the island and it has been removed. We have the Greek names of Turkish islands in articles about Turkish islands (e.g. Bozcaada and Gökçeada articles) and I'm very happy about it as a Turk so why is it a problem when we have the Turkish names of Greek islands in articles about Greek islands ? Konyevi (talk) 08:13, 19 February 2021 (UTC)

Dear @Konyevi:, thanks for your nice message. The reason for my revert is that the consensus for Kastellorizo is to put the (many) different names of the island in a dedicate section. This decision is based on this guideline. If you will read it, you will see that one can put the alternative names after the official ones in parenthesis (the way you suggest) or, alternatively, in a dedicated section, and that this is recommended in the case of more than three names (this is the case for Kastellorizo). I don't know how many names are notable for the Turkish Aegean islands, but you can follow (maybe after opening a thread on the talk page of the article) this way too. Generally speaking, adding Turkish names to Greek islands is a quite thorny issue, but if there is a compelling reason (demographic, like a Turkish minority still living on the island, historical or geographical, i.e., proximity to the Anatolian coast) adding the Turkish name is accepted (although you can always expect that sometime someone try to cancel it). Being neither Turk nor Greek, I try to remain neutral in this issue. Cheers, Alex2006 (talk) 11:43, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

Double standards at play on name

How come certain cities in Turkey have Armenian, Greek, etc. names mentioned in the articles while islands that belonged to Turkey (the Ottomans) for centuries are not allowed to include the Turkish names? There is a blatant double standard at play. Admit it. It needs to end. 176.219.117.136 (talk) 20:14, 14 February 2022 (UTC)

Please read the section right above here about this decision, thanks. The turkish names are mentioned in the section "Name and etymology". Alex2006 (talk) 05:24, 15 February 2022 (UTC)

Double standards

Yes, but the Turkish name deserves to take place at the beginning of the article, in the first few lines mentioning names and how they’re pronounced, etc. 176.55.120.216 (talk) 08:38, 16 February 2022 (UTC)

Marmara Island

I made the change in name in Marmara Island and removed the Greek name at the beginning of the article according to the rules and regulations set above. Let’s see what type of a reaction we will get. I bet it will be a double standard one. I hope to be proven wrong. 176.55.120.216 (talk) 08:45, 16 February 2022 (UTC)

Please read this naming convention. You have two possibilities: the first is mentioning the name in the lead (like in Marmara Island), the second is having a paragraph devoted to the foreign names (like in Kastellorizo). Simply removing the name is not something "according to the rules and regulations set above", but is disruptive editing, and can be sanctioned by an admin. In order to follow the pattern of Kastellorizo you should change the name of the "Etimology" paragraph accordingly (I would write "Names and etymology"), and then mention the modern greek name there. If you do it, you are on the safe side. About this matter, you can also read the "I don't understand why my edit was reverted" section above. Alex2006 (talk) 09:03, 16 February 2022 (UTC)

External links section

Hello Alex; i hope you are doing well. Regarding this revert, i would like to clarify that based on my experience, we do not retain § External links if its sole content is a box-type template. The template has to be placed at the top of the last section of the article; it doesn't have to be § External links. Please have a look at Template:Commons category § Location and WP:MOSSIS. Demetrios1993 (talk) 01:41, 2 August 2023 (UTC)