Talk:Kansas State Wildcats men's basketball

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Elite 8's, Sweet 16's

The NCAA officially does not count opening round games as elite 8's or sweet 16's in it's record books. See here for an example [1]. On page 7 there is a table of "Most Appearances in the Sweet 16", which states Sweet 16 Records begin in 1975, the first year that all teams in the tournament would be required to win at least one game to advance to the Sweet 16. Notice as well that even though KSU has 16 Sweet 16's listed on this page, they aren't listed in the table, even though the 25th ranked team only has 8 appearances. I think at the very least we should put a footnote clarifying things. Ryan2845 (talk) 13:34, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

I agree footnotes are necessary for the Sweet 16 in 1951 and the Elite 8 in 1948 because those were opening round games. For all the other years, KSU received a bye while other teams were playing, meaning these were not in fact opening round games. I do not think those claims require an asterisk. I am changing accordingly. Further discussion may be warranted on this point. -Kgwo1972 (talk) 17:23, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Also, I don't actually see this note on any other team's pages. It doesn't appear to be standard. -Kgwo1972 (talk) 17:30, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Works for me as far as the byes go. When I added it here I checked a few other pages and didn't see any other teams claiming first round games as elite 8's and so on, so I added the footnotes here. Maybe those years should only be listed under "appearances"? Which seems to be what other pages do Ryan2845 (talk) 18:30, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

No other site has footnotes for opening round appearance (although perhaps they all should). Here were just a few I noticed that claim appearances without any qualifying notes: Arizona Wildcats men's basketball, Arkansas Razorbacks men's basketball, Colorado Buffaloes men's basketball, Illinois Fighting Illini men's basketball, Kentucky Wildcats men's basketball... -Kgwo1972 (talk) 18:46, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Doesn't surprise me, since I'm the one who added it and I already said I didn't see any on the other pages I looked at. I think it's worth noting across the board, i'll bring it up on the college basketball project talk page here in a bit. Although it appears the NCAA record books do not count the bye's as sweet 16 either, so in my opinion those should probably have the note as well. Ryan2845 (talk) 21:37, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

I've laid out my thoughts here, feel free to respond Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College Basketball#Tournament appearance designations in infobox. I may have inadvertently singled out the KSU page since I tend to mostly look at KU's rivals, but I do feel that this could be made a standard across the board.

Bramlage Coliseum

What's the deal with all the different names? Evil saltine (talk) 20:05, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

They're playing their cross-state rival tomorrow. I've requested protection at WP:RFPP.--Cube lurker (talk) 20:11, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Second Round Appearances

I'm deleting the "second round" appearances section from the infobox. In my opinion, it's confusing and unnecessary. For example, does the "second round" equal the "Final Four" in 1948, since there were only eight teams invited to the tournament? Is it only the round of 32 starting in 1985? Kansas State's history in the tournament is laid out clearly in the article, and I think this "second round" section in the infobox is frankly confusing. Many infoboxes contain only "Final Fours" and total appearances, so I see no need to keep it on this page. -Kgwo1972 (talk) 16:00, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Record against big 12 teams

The KSU media guide is fairly unreliable as a source for this. I've changed the record against KU back to what the KU media guide lists for now at least. In their 2007-08 media guide they listed the series as 173-89 and then in the 2008-09 media guide the listed it as 173-90, so they didn't even add KU's win in 08 to the total. Ryan2845 (talk) 19:52, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

I think I reverted it again before I saw this message. (I act quickly!) I'd love to look into this further, since I love historical sports research, but I maintain the default is to rely on the accuracy of the KSU record book for the time being. -Kgwo1972 (talk) 19:57, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Also, I noted the difference on the chart on the Sunflower Showdown page, which already notes the difference in baseball and football standings. -Kgwo1972 (talk) 19:59, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

I don't think it makes sense on the sunflower showdown page. This one is the result of easily proven poor bookkeeping on KSU side, the others are due to disputed forfeits. Ryan2845 (talk) 20:04, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

I honestly don't know if it's poor bookkeeping. They may have done historical research themselves between those seasons that changed their totals. I just don't know... I've had my issues with the KSU media guides, and I've exchanged e-mails with the KSU SID and AD about very basic corrections that need to be made. However, I've found that sometimes it turns out that they do know what they're doing. And I think the default should be to at least acknowledge the KSU record book. -Kgwo1972 (talk) 20:12, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

That being said, I don't think this difference rises to the level of needing to be mentioned in the text on the Sunflower Showdown page. -Kgwo1972 (talk) 20:15, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, i've gone through this before with another editor so i'm 100% sure the KSU books are wrong. The easy way to prove is take the 08-09 record book I linked above (which lists KU with 173 wins on one page) and then goto the all time game by game history and count up the KU wins listed there and you'll get 175, not 173, so the KSU guide doesn't even agree with itself. An easy way to get a quick count is to paste the series history into a text editor with line numbering and remove all the ksu or opponent wins and the last line number is that teams number of wins. An easy method if you want to check the other big 12 numbers without counting by hand. Ryan2845 (talk) 20:23, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

OK. I'll check that out. Thanks. -Kgwo1972 (talk) 20:36, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

The issue wasn't nearly so straightforward. Going game-by-game through the KSU record book gives a series record of 91-179. The difference was a game on March 6, 1974, which both teams showed as a win. KU apparently won that game, so the series is in fact 180-90 in favor of KU. -Kgwo1972 (talk) 20:40, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Uniforms in infobox

I suggest the grey replace the black as the alternate uniform, since the team wears grey much more often than black as an alternate color. The home uniform should be white, the away uniform color should stay purple. Agree? Topgun530 (talk) 18:58, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

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