Talk:Kangaroo meat

Ban in the US

Jared Diamond in Collapse said that we ban Kangaroos meat because "ee find kangaroos cute, and because a Congressman's wife heard they were endangered." Anybody know the story behind this? Is the US Kangaroo meat ban in the US due to a delusional wife putting pressure on her idiot husband? --71.192.116.13 04:26, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Haven't heard the story but no doubt true. There is a common misconception that kangaroos are endangered. In fact there have never been more kangaroos in Australia. Much of the inland parts of the Eastern half of the continent are underpinned by a large aquifer known as the 'Great Artesian Basin' where traditionally, ranchers and farmers could sink a borehole and have unlimited water flow to the surface to be used in cattle troughs, and often just flowing away to form artificial wetlands. This, and the felling of much of the Eastern forests to form grazing lands has provided a huge abundance of previously unavailable food for kangaroos leading to a population explosion. Thus culling is often practiced, and instead of leaving the corpses to rot in the paddocks, they are increasingly being culled for food. The flavour is somewhat like venison. You know you aren't eating beef or lamb. I believe a similar trend to 'game' meats is being experienced in the USA with farmed Bison meat etc becoming available.--MichaelGG 10:06, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

According to this article, only California has the ban, which is likely to be overturned.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21831278-1702,00.html --58.107.102.215 03:24, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

probably the same people who eat cute fluffy white lambs, adorable pink pigs, soft doe-eyed calves. Australian Aborigines ate kangaroo, and often relied on it as a staple meat, for 50,000 years. Get over it.

I do beleive at least one (maybe two or three) species of the 69 species of kangaroo are endangered. Some are threatened. Most are near theatened or vulnerable. Sone are also in the least concern category. I have no opinion on eating kangaroos at all, though. Most species are thriving though, anyway and you are right there have never really been more. I am not an Aussie from down under. Sorry about the long line of text, something is wrong with my computer --RayquazaDialgaWeird2210 (talk) 23:35, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't think you know what you're talking about. There are no species of kangaroo that are endangered. There are various smaller marsupials in that family that are, such as the Quokka, but none are commonly called kangaroos. Etimodnar (talk) 13:27, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Actuley he does, "kangaroo" is an informal term for a variety of animals in the family Macropodidae. In this group you have yellow footed rock wallabies and other highly endangered animals. However the eastern grays are normally the only ones to be culled for food so although you can say "some kangaroos are endangered" the ones that are used for food are by no means threatened. --Hypo Mix (talk) 05:42, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

There is some truth behind that kangaroos are endangered, there are in fact 13 extinct species of Macropodidae, however, the species that are hunted for meat, such as the red or grey kangaroo, are in vast numbers and are NOT endangered.Chocolog (talk) 15:44, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Product Section - Ref#6

This source is a press release from the livestock industry trying to sell kangaroo meat. The stats might be correct, but I think this really needs a better source since this group is certainly not NPOV. Bob98133 13:28, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

 I think this is the same ref discussed below and was the from the CSIRO which is no mere livestock organisation --Matilda ^talk 06:02, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Expansion

Article could be usefully expanded, particularly on production details and statistics as well as comparison to grazing livestock. This ref has a lot of useful detail, I would do it but don't have time right now: An industry that's under the gun Rexparry sydney 07:11, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

 the ref has been used Matilda ^talk 01:49, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Cooking Methods

Mentioned in the article is the best way to cook kangaroo meat (raw to medium raw), but through my own experience with frequently cooking kangaroo meat, I've found that a slow cooker makes it very tender and juicy. Perhaps something to that effect could be mentioned within the article.

Also, buying kangaroo meat tends to be cheaper than sheep/pig/cow meat. Etimodnar 08:10, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately without a source it can't. As for the cost part, I presume it depends where you live. I'm guessing that's Australia. It's probably not the case in much of the rest of the world. Another factoid which I don't know how easy it is to source is that most commercial kangaroos tends to be fairly poor quality. The way the industry operates (supported by the above link under a gun) is that there is incentive for hunters to shoot the biggest kangaroos ignoring that these are usually the oldest and toughest ones, usually males (of course this is good from management perspective) so the meat is correspondingly fairly poor quality Nil Einne 22:44, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

• http://books.google.com.au/books?id=UpuH0dA4xVQC&pg=PA135 is a source on traditional indigenous australian cooking methods --Matilda ^talk 06:49, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Kangaroo over Cattle

Why do we even eat cattle? Is it because that is a tradition that has followed Europeans to Australia and is simple and economical? Why don't we farm kangaroos instead? I think we should phase out cows and phase in kangaroos as a meat of choice. I mean there perfectly fine there's nothing wrong with kangaroo meat so what need do we really have for cows when our native animals can meet all these needs? TeePee-20.7 00:22, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

There is, in fact, a swelling of green advocacy for replacing cattle consumption with roo, as the sheep, goat and cow populations produce tons of methane, while kangaroos produce none. Efforts to isolate the bacteria believed to cause this phenomenon are ongoing, with the intention of introducing them to other species. but there is no guarantee these efforts will produce a desired result. Reducing the cultivation of other livestock in favour of free range kangaroo, on the other hand, is sure to reduce the carbon load, unless we do something really stupid to wipe out the bacteria mentioned above. 18:50, 21 December 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bustter (talk • contribs)

the main issue is that you can't contain Kangaroos on a farm, you would have to build a massive (and expensive) fence to keep them contained. You would have to revegitate your farm and be allocated a number of kangaroos you can shoot... a tough idea to push in agricultural areas that have been farming sheep since their forefathers settled the land. Also there isn't much market for kangaroo yet, so that limits production... so yes good in theory but hard to get it started. --Hypo Mix (talk) 05:48, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Kangaroo Species

As soon as I read this article, there was something wrong with it. It said, "Any of the the three species of kangaroo". Pardon me, but aren't there over 60 species of kangaroo? (69 I think.) Or if they are just referring to the three main types of kangaroo, the western grey kangaroo, eastern grey kangaroo, or red kangaroo. If that is the case, then there is nothing wrong with it. I was wondering if I could edit that. --RayquazaDialgaWeird2210 (talk) 23:27, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

There are around 60 species in their family and four in their genus according to their article (Kangaroo). It's off-topic in their article, so I removed it. Royalbroil 23:29, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

kangaroo is not a scientific term so it only applies to what people perceive as kangaroos.. so generally the grays and the reds. it would be better to list the Latin names. --Hypo Mix (talk) 05:52, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Kangaroo Meat Scandal

There should be something in the article about the 'roo in the stew' meat substitution scandal in the early 80s, the effects on beef exports, etc.--121.45.0.223 (talk) 06:20, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

• Would need to be referenced - I think it was mainly horse meat rather than kangaroo. There is a redlinked article in the list of Royal Commissions that is relevant: Royal Commission into Australian meat industry Some refs to start thinking about are:
  • http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/bd/2006-07/07bd004.htm
    • In August 1981 discoveries were made in the United States of horse meat having been substituted for beef by an Australian meat export establishment. The reputation of the Australian meat industry was severely tarnished. (See Royal Commission into the Australian Meat Industry, Report, 1982). In response to the ‘meat substitution scandal’ the Customs (Unlawful Exportation of Food) Act 1982 and the Meat Export (Penalties) Act 1982 were enacted. These Acts were replaced by the Export Control Act 1982 which commenced operation on 1 January 1983.
  • http://www.ncjrs.gov/App/publications/Abstract.aspx?id=122656
    • The 1981 discovery that horsemeat and kangaroo meat were being substituted for beef in meat exported by Australia to the United States and other countries produced widespread changes in Australian law and administration related to commodity exports.
  • http://www.theage.com.au/news/business/entrepreneur-rebuilds-after-meat-scandal/2006/12/03/1165080818572.html
    • ENTREPRENEUR Giuseppe Catalfamo has done a remarkable job rebuilding his business empire after the disastrous meat substitution scandal that threatened to derail the export industry in the early 1980s.
      A decade on from serving out a 10-year exporting ban over his periphery role in the saga, Mr Catalfamo is now in charge of one of Australia's largest and most respected meat processors, the Tasman Group of companies.
      Employing more than 1800 people, the company exports red-meat products to more than 50 countries and is a big supplier to Australia's second-largest supermarket chain, Coles. As its website claims, brand integrity is a must.
      But that wasn't always the case for Mr Catalfamo. Back in 1982, his company, Jason Meats, was embroiled in the meat substitution scandal after shipments to the US were found to contain horse meat.
  • http://www.smh.com.au/news/business/somethings-off-in-the-meat-division/2006/12/10/1165685552369.html
  • http://www.theage.com.au/news/business/beef-over-king-island-meat-hard-to-swallow/2006/12/18/1166290476670.html
  • http://www.science.org.au/reports/aqis2.htm
    • ... 1981 Royal Commission into the Australian Meat Industry and the subsequent passage of the Export Control Act of 1982 and formation of the Export Inspection Service.

The report itself does not seem tobe published on line - 1982 is too long ago --Matilda ^talk 01:47, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

It took 15 years, but Australian meat substitution scandal now has an article and it's linked from this. Jpatokal (talk) 06:08, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

Contradiction

There's a contradiction that needs to be worked out. The Production section starts out with:

Kangaroo is not farmed. Kangaroo meat comes entirely from professional culling operations where the animals are head or heart-shot in the wild.

The Products section then goes on to say:

Kangaroo farming is a substantially more environmentally friendly meat industry than present sheep or cattle farming: kangaroos require less feed than placental stock, are well-adapted to drought, do not destroy the root systems of native grasses in the way that sheep do, and have much less impact on Australia's fragile topsoils. However as of 2004, the traditional regulatory restrictions on the sale of kangaroo meat in the Australian domestic market make kangaroo farming economically unattractive. Nevertheless, the industry is worth around A$200 million annually.

Clearly, these can't both be true. How do we resolve the contradiction? —CKA3KA (Skazka) (talk) 21:17, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

 I believe this is now resolved, there is no contradiction or ambiguity - it would be environmentally friendly if it were farmed as an alternative to cattle and sheep, it isn't - present day status is it isn't farmed. --Matilda ^talk 01:28, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

also "farmed" does not need to mean fenced paddocks, could also mean hunting an area sustainably --Hypo Mix (talk) 05:54, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

References

Dicey source in Products section?

Good edits to this and sourcing. One I question though, I think I removed it before, is in the Products section - http://www.csiro.au/files/mediaRelease/mr2004/kangaroofat.htm This is a press release from Livestock Industries so, even though the info is probably correct, that this isn't the best source for it. If it's true, there should be a better reference. Bob98133 (talk) 19:29, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

• I suggest you read Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation - not a livestock body but a government org "national government body for scientific research in Australia. It was founded in 1926 originally as the Advisory Council of Science and Industry." To me it is the most reliable source. --Matilda ^talk 19:59, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

I reviewed the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation website. Even so, if this is of great importance, you would think that it would be mentioned in the media, and elswhere on their website, rather than just in a press release, but I agree the reference is sound. Sorry for the earlier removal. Bob98133 (talk) 23:09, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Not suggesting it is of great importance. The factoid was added by somebody else, tagged by another as unreferenced, I have added a reference. I do not think it is undue weight though - it happens to be a reasonably well-established scientific fact. Fair few google hits for kangaroo lineolic acid , I just picked what I believed to be a reliable source which was in reasonably plain English. You could have this one [1] merely a truncated abstract but from The International Bibliographic Information on Dietary Supplements database (established within the Office of Disease Prevention, Office of the Director, at the National Institutes of Health and cooperating with other US Govt Agencies) . It seems to support the assertion kangaroo meat (rich in linoleic and arachidonic acids) . I think though Australians might have a tad bit more interest in the subject that Yanks - hence the more plain English version trying to communicate their findings. A newspaper article that covers the topic in some detail http://www.smh.com.au/news/environment/an-industry-thats-under-the-gun/2007/09/25/1190486311919.html --Matilda ^talk 00:58, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Kangaroo farming and harvesting - some sources

As there have been a couple of edits recently altering the article content, I thought it would be useful to collect some sources on some of the topics being discussed

• In 1983 kangaroo farming was thought to not be feasible because Markets for meat and skins are limited and are adequately supplied from the existing rangeland harvest (i.e. kangaroo hunting). Farmed kangaroos could not compete successfully in these circumstances because of high costs associated with establishing and operating a kangaroo farming enterprise. -- Shepherd, NC. "The feasibility of farming kangaroos". The Australian Rangeland Journal. 5 (1): 35–44. Retrieved 2008-08-20.
• The Victorian Government produced a paper which has a number of useful references to the history and to the legislation concerning harvesting of kangaroos - see "Chapter 4 Wild-harvesting of kangaroos". Inquiry into the Utilisation of Victorian Native Flora and Fauna. Parliament of Victoria (Australia) : Environment and Natural Resources Committee. June 2000. Retrieved 2008-08-20.
• While there is probably bias against the source and I think it would be questioned as to whether it met our guidelines for a reliable source it is probably instructive to read http://www.kangaroo-industry.asn.au/industry.html and http://www.kangaroo-industry.asn.au/morinfo/BACKGR1.HTM
• Recently (October 2007) Greenpeace called for increased consumption of kangaroo - more at Collier, Karen (2007-10-10). "Greenpeace urges kangaroo consumption to fight global warming". Herald Sun. Retrieved 2008-08-20.

--Matilda ^talk 01:03, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

is it farmed or not?

the article gives this bbc article as a reference [2] for kangaroos being only hunted, not farmed - except the news item contradicts this by stating, quite clearly: "The country already produces 30 million kangaroos farmed by landholders in the outback." (emphasis added). So are they farmed or not?! --86.135.86.85 (talk) 20:18, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Farming implies management and livestock which is intentionally managed - there is no intentional management that I am aware of . The kangaroos live on the land regardless of ownership status. The article is looking to a future farming strategy. --Matilda ^talk 20:25, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

The article seems to specifically refer to practices happening right now as being "farming". --86.135.125.235 (talk) 18:58, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

The quotes from Wilson urge farming, the assertion The country already produces 30 million kangaroos farmed by landholders in the outback. is at variance with the other sources in the article. Yes 30 million roos may be jumping around (3 million are harvested and current estimates of the population are 35-50m ) , and yes people including Dr George Wilson, of the Australian Wildlife Services, urges farming them. - Wilson is not quoted as saying them as farmed. I think the article is in error in stating 30 million are farmed today. --Matilda ^talk 20:33, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Of course the other question is what really counts as farming? At what point does free-range farming become a kind of... managed hunter-gathering?--86.135.125.235 (talk) 23:37, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

I guess the confusion arises from the fact that the roos are hunted on land owned by people unlike hunting-gathering in the old days when hunting was done in the wild! Docku:“what up?” 00:04, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

as i mentioned above "also "farmed" does not need to mean fenced paddocks, could also mean hunting an area sustainably" --Hypo Mix (talk) 05:57, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Useful reference

• From Australian SBS: http://www.sbs.com.au/food/article/3348/Kanga-who - updated statistics - meets WP:RS --Matilda ^talk 00:57, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Mostly for recipes, though. There is no indication of who does this site or how to contact them, or what if any references were used to arrive at figures in this article, or who the author is and what qualifications he might have. I think it's a bit dubious that this fits WP:RS Bob98133 (talk) 18:16, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Special Broadcasting Service is a notable news organisation within Australia. They would count as a reliable source. For example this article provides a percentage of the Australian people who eat kangaroo meat more than 4 times a year (14.5%) - not a figure we have had access too before. I don't think we had a reference before either t the export industry existing since 1959 and there is an update on the $value of that industry. --Matilda ^talk 19:43, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I didn't know that about SBS - guess I could have looked in Wiki...As long as they are reliable, then it is good to have the additional stats. Bob98133 (talk) 21:14, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

yep they are independent of government and meat industries. --Hypo Mix (talk) 05:59, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Some suggestions only

I wanted to suggest some words for the section Products. To me, this section makes it sound like Kangaroo meat is only "just bareable" whereby you have to add it to food to cover up the taste. I would like to see: "Kangaroo fillet and steak is not only just found in the supermarket, but is very quickly becoming widely used in high-end modern cuisine restuarants throughout Australia." Or something to that effect.

Other health benefits of choosing Kangaroo over beef include it is lower in fat and cholestorol (by a lot) and is very high in protein. References: ^ O'dea, K., Sinclair, A., Niall, M. and Traianedes, K. 1986. Lean meat as part of a cholesterol-lowering diet. Progress in Lipid Research 25: 219-220. ^ O'dea, K. 1988. Kangaroo meat - polyunsaturated and low in fat: ideal for cholesterol-lowering diets. Australian Zoologist 24: 140-143.

It is also a lower methane emmitting choice for people conscious of their carbon footprint. Professor Ross Garnaut jumped on this idea in this Climate Change Review for the Australian Government (2008) here. And you already have the reference Wilson and Edwards (2008). Using kangaroos adaptations to produce low emission meat here. JennyKS (talk) 04:27, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Kangaroo Farming

I also agree with other editors/comments listed previously that people's misconception that Kangaroo need be "farmed" is ludicrous. They are a free ranging animal and always will be. Take examples from South Africa and Scotland where sustainable harvest of native free-ranging animals occurs with benefit to the landholder, without erecting fences. The same can be and should be applied in Australia. Nor should beef/sheep systems need be replaced wholly by kangaroo production - they can compliment one another and kangaroo form only a portion of farm income. See Sustainable Wildlife Enterprises. JennyKS (talk) 04:24, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Kill numbers?

Okay, so we have some quota numbers, but how many kangaroos are actually killed each year? That information should be available from the Aus gov’t…. — TheHerbalGerbil^(TALK|STALK), 19:41, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

dietry benifets

espcially with news showing new kangaroo/emu burgers does anyone have a health list of eating kangaroo compared to "traditional" meats like beef? from a outsider non kangaroo eater point of view it would be good information to have in the article to compare it to other meat sources.152.91.9.153 (talk) 01:13, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

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Taste?

This is an article about kangaroo meat. Where is the described taste? 172.115.31.107 (talk) 13:12, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

Edits by Correction121212

There's a fair number of serious WP violations with Correction's edits, recently made to this article and to Kangaroo industry (some of the edits are copy-pasted and identical). Here are a subset of the problems that absolutely need to be fixed before it's suitable for integration into the article:

- WP:RS: a big chunk of the edits is supported by references to "Professor David Brooks" who is not, in fact, a working academic but a person with the title of "Honorary Associate Professor" at U of Sydney. His expertise appears to be poetry. He has published mainly on English literature and poetry. His doctoral degree is in English literature. He appears to have a hobby of writing about animals on the side; this does not make him an animal expert under WP guidelines. None of the population control writings or other scientific material attributed to him fall under WP:RS; the most this deserves is around two lines mentioning that this non-specialist has certain strong views about animal rights of this industry.

- WP:SOAPBOX: when critical viewpoints are added to certain original/mainstream viewpoints, the preferred Wikipedia approach is to integrate the criticisms closely adjacent to where the original issues are discussed. In cases where this would not be appropriate (e.g. biography articles or academic theories), a criticism section may be added. In this case, the user's edits mainly pertain to the first section and should be integrated into the first section with proper care. Adding a bunch of copy-and-pasted content (which btw is a WP:COPYVIO issue) to a new section immediately below the first section is an extremely lazy way of editing and creates a badly unreadable article to anyone who doesn't realize it was edited by someone with an agenda.

- content blanking: Example. While adding in dozens of paragraphs of copy-and-pasted content, the user removed two existing paragraphs (each with a reliable source) on the pretense that they're not "up-to-date". The removed content is in a different section; one is in the lede. Their statements have not been replaced. If any part of the article can be removed for being not "up to date" because someone is adding in a 2021 source (which, btw, is a synthesis of many older sources), then the entire article could pretty much be removed on the same grounds. That did not happen; the user is just blanking certain paragraphs that he finds disagreeable.

- incorrect use of sources: This is a reference to a legislative council meeting minutes: THINKK, ‘Submission 160, Point 5.11’, Health and wellbeing of kangaroos and other macropods in New South, Parliament NSW, Legislative Council.

The claims made here are not backed up by the "Legislative Council" but in fact by specific witnesses or think tanks called into hearings by the legislative council. They should be attributed properly. Ceconhistorian (talk) 22:49, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

Third paragraph in the article

Hello! I'm uh, still pretty new to editing Wikipedia so I'm not sure if it is an issue or not, but the third paragraph of the article is pretty much just said word for word elsewhere. I went ahead and removed the cooking section of the article, as again it just said word for word what was already in the third paragraph, and frankly didn't seem to warrant its own section. I don't really know what to do about the rest of the paragraph though, specifically how it is a near copy of the 'Nutrition and products' section. Lilliraune 00:30, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Main description

Many if the paragraphs are repeats of later paragraphs. Should this be fixed and if so, how? Amadeus1928 (talk) 15:14, 1 September 2023 (UTC)