Talk:Kali Yuga/Archive 1

Homophobic, Patriarchal, and Revisionist

My friend, This is all the truth about the age we are living in. Every thing that you mentioned was physically seen and written down along time ago. Along time before your modern, marxist, adharmic, morally relavistic beleifs came, which I might add...are all symptoms of The kali yuga. You dont want to accept that your beleifs and life style is...Kali yugic and tama guna. What you mention is absolutely the banter of a kali yuga denizen.zeuspitar (talk) 23:33, 05 March 2008

This article is homophobic in the extreme... very POV. Also, there is a great deal of patriarchal POV here, such as "women not being shy" as a bad thing. Some parts are going to need extensive revising. In addition, the entire thing reads as though all these things were prophesied at the beginning of the age, which is utter nonsense. It's all revisionism, taking the current state of things, viewed through a negative lens, and then claiming "oh see this is what happens in the Kali Yuga." 128.213.49.23 18:41, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

User:128.213.49.23, I am not sure whether you are a Hindu or not but this is "according to The Hindu scriptures." Maybe I should put the words "according the the Srimad Bhagavatam and Vedas more. The truth nothing is biased because this is what the HINDUS (at least devout) believe. It may not be true, it may be pessimistic, sexist etc. but this is what we believe. If you books discussing the Kali Yuga, it will be very similar. DaGizza ^{Chat (c)} 09:26, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

In addition, this was all predicted/prophesised (not predicted but known and told) by Lord Krishna. As evidence read the Bhagavad Gita, Srimad Bhagavatam and the Vedas. You also have to understand that The Yuga cycle is ongoing. See Metrics of time in Hinduism. There have many Kai Yugas in the past as well as more coming in the future. Also take in account that currently 5000 years of Kali Yuga have passed and the first 10000 years are known as the "twilight years." After 10000 years have gone these problems will have reached the peak.

These are some links on what The Hindus believe the Kali Yuga is. It is Hindu concept, and it may not be true, but it is what we believe; remember that.

[1]

[2]

[3]

[4]

DaGizza ^{Chat (c)} 10:05, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

The homophobia has been satisfactorily handled by Adudney. The misogyny is still present in the "Changes in woman" section. Regardless of DaGizza's personal beliefs, which are not at all representative of Hinduism as a whole, this section is POV and must be marked as such. By the way, DaGizza, citing the Bhagavad Gita does you no good, because it was written after 1000 BCE, yet you claim the Kali Yuga began 2000 years before that. This just strengthens the earlier argument that the so-called prophesies were nothing more than "revisionism, taking the current state of things, viewed through a negative lens, and then claiming 'oh see this is what happens in the Kali Yuga.'" Just because you sanction your bigotry through your religion (thus redirecting shame from yourself onto your religion) doesn't mean your bigotry isn't POV. 24.22.104.31

And, you dont like what the Hindu holy books are saying; because it doesnt fit in with your modern, marxist, morally relativistic beliefs or sactions them. And, stilll,this is the banter of a sinful, kali yuga denizen. "bigotry",... how is it bigotry to state the degenerate conditions of this age in a Godly, spiritual, scientific way that is expounded upon in the Veda?Your modern age is corrupt...sorry. The Vedic scriptures proves it.zeuspitar 23:00, 03 March 2008(UTC)

The Bhagavad Gita was recited by Krishna before kali yuga began. it was not written in or after 1000 BCE. suren

I understand part of what you are trying to say and I will accept it. However there are few things I believe we need to discuss. Why are you only saying the "woman" and "sexuality" sections are POV, how are they worse than the other sections? Secondly, for both of these sections (and maybe others) I think we should still write these "POV" comments along with neutral writings, but write a source for these. We can write according to the Bhagavad Gita though, it is interpreted differently ..., (or any other Hindu Text for that matter) then write what is written in the book.

We can write what Hindus have believed of Kali Yuga in all of recent history. The meaning of Kali Yuga obviously changed when Buddhism flourished, when the Mughals arrived and when the British arrived. If we want to make this a good article then every aspect of Kali Yuga has to be discussed in every context. There are of course optimists and pessimists. On to antoher question: are you the same person as 128.213.49.23? And are actually Hindu, so you know where I am coming from? Just curious.

Hopefully we can work this out! Thanks! DaGizza ^{Chat (c)} 08:37, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

It is extremely disturbing to find people with minimal knowledge and insight writing about real people and real cultures as if they founded it. The views expressed about the "Shudras" and about how they are congenitally inferior to the other castes is totally derogatory. The most chauvinistic part of course is where the so called expert writes about a time in the 'Kali Yuga" when the Dirty Shudras will discriminate against the "Noble Brahmins". Is this person even aware that the Shudras are real people and they live in this world right now and have no plans of global domination? So please ,for decency's, sake abstain from writing things like this in a public forum. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ramesh2ramesh (talk • contribs) 07:26, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Sorry to say...most of the people you know, see, or meet are people with sudra qualities. People with no knowledge of truely Godly things, a decent culture or some kind of morality or ethics are by nature...sudras. In this Kali yuga...EVERY ONE have these traits and also the traits of Brahmins within them. It is not only a stratified caste, but, quailities that ALL Human beings have within them all over the world. By cultivating the Godly brahmin traits and nature, by focusing back on God and living a Godly life...thats how we can all stave off the debilitating currents and energy of the kali yuga ...and sudras. It really is an INNER battle. In America, regardless of race, socio-economic level or any other physical-materialistic distinction. The culture, the institutions, the society, the music...every thing, is producing...sudras, sorry to say. The further the various societies and countries not only in America, but all over the world, drift away from God, morality, religion, goodness, High culture and etc....the more you will see and be surrounded by...sudras. The population of this planet...is rapidly becoming, what you call...dirty sudras. You said "The dirty sudras will discriminate against the noble Brahmins"...well, it is going on right now in India. Certain regional governments ARE discriminating against brahmin class. It is a fact proven by the Vedic scriptures. Even better...here in america, when you watch when they denegrate, malign religion, morality, God, holy people of any kind on "the Simpsons", "family guy", on the movies, on other t.v. shows and etc...it is the sudras and vaishyas attacking the Noble Brahmins. When you hear Rap/hip-hop or any other modern conteporary music blasting...it is the spreading of sudra qualities. Punk rockers, 20 something generation x people, communists, Rap/Hip-Hop people, drug users, body piersed-tattooed people; most of the population of America right now, guess what....are sudras. By cultivating "the Noble Brahmin" quality within us by living a Vedic life and keeping down as much as possible "the dirty sudra" qualities we will stay aloft the current of the kali yuga. Sir, I hope and pray that you cultivate some sort of Godliness and Spiritual path. zeuspitar (talk) 23:33,03 March 2008

Let's clean up this article

Encouraged by Deeptrivia's addition of an NPOV tag to one section of the Kali Yuga article, I would like some help with a significant edit of this article. Especially someone who has knowledge of the Vedas, and can cite specific statements in the article. I'm taking the talk page approach because this has been a contentious page, and I'm proposing some significant changes. Would anyone like to work with me on this? Some suggestions for each section:

• Intro: 'according to most interpretations of Hindu scriptures' implies that there is not unanimity on the subject. Specific references to scripture would help there, and references to specific interpretations of those scriptures would also help. And, a specific reference for the 'reboot' claim would help.
• Problems that arise section: misleading title, sounds like a criticism section. Should be 'Attributes of Kali Yuga' or some such. Not a single statement in this section has a single source mentioned. For such specific statements, there should be specific references.
• Changes in the people section: title should be something like 'Changes in the people in Kali Yuga'. Again, not a single reference to where these very specific statements come from.
• Lives of each of the castes section: I propose removing this section. First of all, the 'caste' system, as it refers to Brahmin, Kshatriya, etc.,. has been moved to the Varnas page, since 'caste' does not neccessarily refer to Brahmin, Kshatriya, etc. Second, that system has had enough doubt raised about it, both scripturally (see Varnas article) and morally, that it has no relevance in an article about Kali Yuga
• Exception section: remove and replace with a link in the 'External links' section to an ISKON site.
• Other views of Kali Yuga section: additional interpretations would be helpful. I removed the qualifying statement at the end of the section "But these above views originated only during past fewdecades. They are not known widely and are not authorised in Hinduism due to lack of substance and authority as compared to Veda sastras" because it is POV and also incorrect. There is no reference to the 'authorizing' leader of Hinduism; these other views are interpretations of scripture, which have a long tradition in Hinduism; one of the views originated over a century ago, not a 'fewdecades.'

I'll wait for feedback and discussion before I make any changes. Absence of feedback after one week will be taken as a lack of objection. I'm mentioning this on the WikiProject Hinduism talk page also. Cheers. ॐ Priyanath 00:40, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Cleanup and Edits

Per my previous comments, I've:

• Tidied up the intro, removing redundancy, and rearranging the order so that the definition of Kali Yuga precedes the 'we are now in Kali Yuga', thus general--->specific.
• Changed and reorganized section headings
• Removed 'Castes' section per my comments above
• Removed 'Exceptions' section as POV
• Added intro and references to 'Other Views' section
• Added 'Notes' section heading
• Still Needs:
  • Citations for source of all the 'Attributes of Kali Yuga'. If no specific references are available, I suggest changing title of section to 'Attributes of Kali Yuga according to Hindu tradition'. Rather weak, but better than nothing?
  • A section on 'Evidence that earth is currently in Kali Yuga', with references, from scripture? The 'Attributes of Kali Yuga' section looks like it was originally written to prove that we are in Kali Yuga, but the only objective criteria given there seem to show that we are Not in Kali Yuga ('Throughout the age, humans become shorter in height and weaker physically as well as mentally'). Most of the criteria are subjective, such as 'The actions of men and savage beasts are alike', and 'Women in this era shall be immoral and licentious by nature because they are neglected and left unprotected by the men.' Statements like that should also be referenced, since they seem rather quaint. Or they should be removed.

Comments and discussion are appreciated. Any help with references to scripture especially would be helpful. Regards ॐ Priyanath 04:41, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

User:203.199.120.7 cannot be trusted. I have rolled back all their work because I think its a software translation from a copyrighted source. Please do not revert back. - Ta bu shi da yu 11:25, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Concept of "reboot" of the yugas, in the 2nd paragraph.

This concept of "rebooting" of the yugas is mischevious at best. What is the source for this concept? In the book "Science of Religion" by Yogiraj Yuketeshwar Giri, Guru of Paramhansa Yogananda, the yugas are describes as cyclic, very much in conformance with natural phenomena. The yugas precess within the maha-yugas and the cyclic periods and twilight zones are much more reasonable in human history times. He provides some indication that the cyclic precession of the yugas has been set in motion at creation and the evolution or "devolution" of the human mind is thus aided or degraded. This concept is better suited to the central theories of Karma and reincarnation. The wishful reboot is as hollow as being cleansed of all karmic infliction at the point of confession. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.230.241.5 (talk) 18:49, 5 September 2005 (CST) (UTC)

Am I missing something?

I was going to quote some of the POV stuff, but this entire thing is POV. This definitly need to be changed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.208.42.210 (talk) 08:05, 13 February 2006 (CST) (UTC)

Cleanup and Edits

I've just expanded the Kali yuga, there isn't total information available, I will add in citations at a later date, though i had to write in a revisionist fashion because I'm not a brillant writer — Preceding unsigned comment added by Priyanath (talk • contribs) 04:41, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

"lit. Age of Kali"

Unless ime very much in error, ~Kalii Yugaa~ is Darkness Age not "Age of Kali". The confusion is from imprecise transcription, k_a_l_i being uzed for both words. The goddess is Kaalii (long a, long i; meaning ~The Dark One~), the demon is Kaali (long a, short i), and :darkness is Kalii (short a, long i). If any-one has better information, ime keen to see it.
_ Froggo Zijgeb on 18`7`2006.

Our article on Kali says that Kali means darkness, black. Secretlondon (talk) 23:29, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Those are two different Kali's. It has nothing to do with the goddess Kali. The Kali in question is the male demon of the same name. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 19:40, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks so much for this clarification... It did not seem right that they were calling Kali a demon, when she was actually a hologram of Devi Durga's forehead, who actually fought and kill the demons. From what I understood. Thanks again. There are many fine points like this only a person raised studying this kind of thing could know... Keep up the good work. Can you also edit this incorrect info? Or do we have to read the discussion everytime to hopefully find out what each topics mistakes are? —Preceding unsigned comment added by DeviDarshan (talk • contribs) 04:22, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for your kind remarks. The "Kali" in "Age of Kali" is actually linked to the Kali demon page. I guess I can tweak the entry a little to avoid further confusion. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 13:39, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Translation

Where the previous description of Kali Yuga presented it with many misogynistic and intolerant views, a translation of the Mahabharata found at hinduism.co.za/ seems to reinforce these views. Where by no means am I endorsing such opinions, nor am I claiming that the Hindu religion universally holds such views, I was wondering if anyone could determine the legitimacy of said translation? 74.67.115.126 01:05, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Man, what are you doing on a Hindu article page?...you should be on discussion pages that deal with marxism, communism, liberalism, frankfort school or other kind of kali yuga philosophical non-sense. You are seeing all that is being written through your modern, marxist, materialistic, left-wing, immoral, corrupt kali yuga beliefs and tendencies. Your veiws are the typical kali yuga denizen beleif.zeuspitar (talk) 23:54, 05 March 2008

User:Maldek's edits

Is this the talk page? HI I am Maldek and I am wondering why people keep editing my information. I am making the right changes to incorrect information about Kali-Yuga and other Vedic History. Please let me know what information I am listing incorrectly and I will prove it to you. Thank You. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Maldek (talk • contribs) 02:31, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Please read the explanation left on your talk page and especially wikipedia policies WP:V and WP:NPOV before readding the unsourced information. Abecedare (talk) 02:01, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Yuga Lifespans 100,000 years, 10,000 years, 1000 years, 100 years, 20 years.

I was wondering if we could add a little bit about the average lifespan in the different yugas.

I have many sources that show that in Sata Yuga the average lifespan was 100,000 years. In Treta Yuga the average lifespan was 10,000 years. In Dvapara Yuga the average lifespan was 1,000 years. In the beginning of Kali-Yuga 5,110 years ago the average lifespan was 100 years and at the end of Kali-Yuga the average lifespan will be 20 years. Could we add this in the Yuga articles. Thank You. Here are some sources.

http://www.harekrishnatemple.com/bhakta/chapter19.html

http://www.vaikunt.org/AyyaVaikuntar/kalanemi.htm

http://courseware.acadiau.ca/courses/engl/3663/wiki/index.php/Kalyug

http://www.thelemapedia.org/index.php/Yuga

http://salvia.us/archive/10815.shtmlMaldek (talk) 01:45, 10 May 2008 (UTC) I have added the lifespans, though someone seems to not belive it. Why were my edits deleted!!!!!!!!

5,000 years after 3102 B.C. is 1898 CE not 1899 CE

I was wondering if somebody could change the Golden Period of Kali-Yuga to 1898 CE instead of 1899 CE because if you say Kali-Yuga started in 3102 B.C. and that the golden period will begin 5,000 years after Kali-Yuga's start then that equals 1898 CE. I have tried to change it before but for some reason by edit was constantly reverted. To me 1898 CE makes mathematical sense, whereas 1899 CE is off by one year. If you could fix this small error, I would be much obliged. Thank You.Maldek (talk) 01:49, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Your error is assuming that the first year of the Kali-Yuga was year one. Because all years in the Hindu calendar are elapsed/expired/completed years, at any time before that first year had been completed, it was not yet year one, so it must be year zero. So 3102 cannot be subtracted from 5000. Only 3101 should be subtracted, yielding 1899 as the year when 5000 years have elapsed. — Joe Kress (talk) 02:16, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

I have added the lifespans to all the yuga articles. Here are the RELIABLE sources I used:

http://www.harekrishnatemple.com/bhakta/chapter19.html

http://www.vaikunt.org/AyyaVaikuntar/kalanemi.htm

http://courseware.acadiau.ca/courses/engl/3663/wiki/index.php/Kalyug

http://www.thelemapedia.org/index.php/Yuga

http://salvia.us/archive/10815.shtml

Gopal81^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 02:10, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Golden age within Kali Yuga is 'to start 5,000 years after its beginning'

I respectfully request evidence be given for the claim that a golden age within Kali Yuga is 'to start 5,000 years after its beginning'. The reference given 'ibid, 4.129.50' assuming it refers to the Brahma Vaivarta Purana provides no supporting evidence for this claim, at least that I can see.

What the Brahma Vaivarta Purana according to gauranga.org states is: 'Lord Hari will stay on this earth for the first ten-thousand years of Kali-yuga. For that time the deities of the demigods will be worshiped and the Puranas and scriptures will also be present. For half that period the Ganga and other holy places will be present. For half that period the village temples and the Vedas studied by learned brahmanas will be present.'

The Brahma Vaivarta Purana according to archive.org states something similar 'O Ganges, you had better remain on earth for five thousand years of Kali.' ... 'My believers will remain on earth for 10,000 years of the iron age.'

So there's evidently a progressive decline. I flagged the relevant citation with a verification failure for now. ICouldBeWrong (talk) 15:21, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

I've edited the article to address this issue, and now consider it resolved. BTW Dougweller thanks for removing 'orthodox', on reflection I agree it was spurious. ICouldBeWrong (talk) 09:32, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

Age of Iron?

I've heard Kali-Yuga described as "the age of iron", e.g.: http://www.veda.harekrsna.cz/encyclopedia/time.htm#6
There is at least one reference to this on WP (S.S. Kaliyuga). I don't feel qualified to make changes here, but believe something like "also known as the age of iron" should be in the lead; with perhaps an explanation later in the article. (I just noticed a reference to "iron age" in the post immediately above). Update: it is mentioned under Brahma Kumaris, but should be mentioned in the lead. ~Eric F [edit]~Eric F184.76.225.106 (talk) 06:58, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Modern esoteric conceptions

Should we put something in here about how the Kali Yuga is represented in modern Western esoteric streams? I'm thinking about Rudolf Steiner specifically since I'm doing a lot of reading of his lectures and he mentions the Kali Yuga as being over and we're now on an upward path. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eric m allen (talk • contribs) 18:51, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

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Possible starting and ending dates: biased dogmas

Looks like this section has been edited by someone from the Yogananda lineage to promote their particular view of this subject, but put forward as though it is authoritative. The ideas outlined by Sri Yukteswar are highly suspect, as they would require a complete overturning of Hindu chronologies that are fairly well established. For instance, on p. xviii in his book (Holy Science), in support of his argument Yukteswar places Pariksit at 700BCE, which is much later than current chronology would support, and which leads to serious problems. Yukteswar's view totally turns Krishna's date on its head, as he has the Kali Yuga beginning in 701BCE, thus upsetting timing of the authorship of the Mahabharata, and so on (none of which does he even attempt to account for). The dates he suggests, if taken seriously, would cause a ripple effect that would eventually overturn all Hindu chronology as we know it (whether we take that chronology from ancient sources or modern research).

To put forward Yukteswar as though his approach stands the test of serious scholarship is deeply problematic. Not to mention the language used in this section ("the revered Hindu guru Swami Sri Yukteswar", revered by whom?; or "The common belief until Swami Sri Yukteswar Giri had analyzed the dating of the yuga cycles", the "common belief" has not been impacted by Yuktewar one bit, except within the circle of the followers of his lineage).

All this is unworthy of a wikipedia article and needs serious revising or deletion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 104.32.155.205 (talk) 21:25, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

Whats the issue with the Lead Section?

Tried to correct but couldnt understand the exact issue Pratat (talk) 14:14, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

Numerology - seriously?

How is it that we have an article that starts with numerological mumbo-jumbo? It would be better to explain what Kali Yuga is, or is believed to be, what its meaning is, who believes in it, why they believe in it, both in modern times, and in historical times. However, assigning exact dates and times to it, using totally bogus numerological computations, is clearly and obviously bullshit. How is it that this is a "B-class" article, when it is filled with (well-referenced) nonsense? Surely wikipedia can do better, can't it? 67.198.37.16 (talk) 19:00, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

The article certainly lacks a proper summary in its lead as required by MOS:LEAD, but the Kali Yuga is definitely not numerological mumbo-jumbo. Its epoch (midnight 17/18 February 3102 BC in the Julian calendar) was calculated astronomically, when all visible planets were last in conjunction, using Hindu methods. It is explained within the Surya Siddhanta, translated into English by the Rev. Ebenezer Burgess in 1860 with extensive commentary and reprinted many times. — Joe Kress (talk) 21:12, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

Well, it certainly should mention that a conjunction has something to do with it, and explain how/why the conjunction is important (I guess because some text xyz refers to it? which text(s)?) and that the date is the date of the conjunction. There is no hint anywhere that astronomy or stars have anything to do with this material. There's no hint of which texts describe this, how it fits into the scheme of Hinduism, or whatever scheme of the world its supposed to fit into. This is clearly religious; which religion(s)? (The lead says "Hindu scripts"; this could be pretty much anything at all) As currently written, this article reads like some random creative nonsense cut-n-pasted from 4-chan or some flat-earth blog. 67.198.37.16 (talk) 22:45, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

Read the Mahabharata to know more about kali yuga and the events that are happening in 2020 proves that kali yuga is a real thing and not a myth and be sure to control your ego and anger because the tree of arrogance bears the fruit of destruction as said by Veda Vyasa Weeabo-kun2198 (talk) 13:57, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

To me i see all hate comments and love comments are the same they do not have any meaning to it i only care about action because you can't do nothing to me in actuality the words love hate righteousness and unrighteous has no meaning in this kali yuga Weeabo-kun2198 (talk) 14:00, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

@Joe Kress: Planet conjunction is mere symbolic and later addition. If you go by the WikiPedia and scholarly accepted dates of Earliest Indian scriptures like RigVeda, these things will make no sense. The RV doesn’t even make detailed mentions of Zodiacs/rasi by which the supposed date is arrived.(although the 12-spoked-wheel might be the Zodiac or just 12 months.)ChandlerMinh (talk) 15:43, 2 March 2021 (UTC)