Talk:Juliusz Karol Kunitzer

Move

The article should be named Julius Kunitzer (currently a redirect), as it clearly states Kunitzer was German. His enterprise was a founding member of the "Verband der Lodzer Fabrikanten der Bekleidungsindustrie" (Association of Lodz manufacturers of garment industry), which was based in Berlin (Source:Rogall:Land der grossen Ströme, p. 313; also clearly describing "Julius Kunitzer" as an example of a German industrialist in Łódź) Contemporary sources call him "Julius" [1][2] and there's no need to use a Polonized name here. Władysław Reymont and Andrzej Wajda describe the multi-ethnic character of Łódź in the 19th century in the book/movie The Promised Land. It's misleading to use the Polonized form of his name. HerkusMonte (talk) 18:30, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

I have no objections to that. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 19:38, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

Not that I care much in this particular case, but neither name is used much in CURRENT English sources. There's basically one gbook hit for "Julius" [3] and three, maybe four, for "Juliusz" [4], one of them being the exact same source for "Julius" which apparently is somewhat schizophrenic in the naming. If you're going to be specific about his ethnicity here it would be something like German-Polish or Polish of German descent, along the lines of hyphenated-Americans.Volunteer Marek (talk) 19:40, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

also clearly describing "Julius Kunitzer" as an example of a German industrialist in Łódź Indeed. I will add more information on this example.--MyMoloboaccount (talk) 22:20, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

Would be too complicated to explain the specific ethnic situation of 19th-century Łódź. If you think they were all Polish - I won't quarrel. HerkusMonte (talk) 08:31, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

They weren't all Polish, there were Germans in the city. We know that German minority petitioned German Empire to annex this Polish city during WW1 into Germany, so they were some Germans within it certainly. We also know that some of them remained and were later loyal to Nazis which had negative effect on Jewish populationUnofficial contacts between the Jewish and “Aryan” inhabitants of Łódź were hampered by the fact that the town had a 70,000 strong German minority, loyal to the new authorities. But this of course should be in separate article.--MyMoloboaccount (talk) 11:11, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

I thought we were talking about the 19th century? HerkusMonte (talk) 05:42, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

Kunitzer is remembered in Łódż culture

He was immortalized in one of popular Łódż songs.

W mieście Łodzi rozeszła się nowina
Była sobota, coś piąta godzina
Wracał do domu swym starym zwyczajem
Kunitzer i Tanfani, jadąc tramwajem
Tam na przystanku przy Nawrot ulicy
Kunitzer żegnał swych towarzyszy,
Zegnaj mu też pałacu i nieba błękicie -
Bo dzisiaj, łotrze, kończysz swoje życie.
Z tyłu na platformie dwaj bojowcy stali
I każdy, pojedyńczo, z brauninga wali. -
Lud się prosił daremnie, prosił ze łzami
"A tyś mu się, łotrze, odpłacał kozakami.
Z pracy warsztatu na łeb wyrzucałeś -
Za długoletnią pracę tak się wywdzięczałeś ,
Kończysz dziś życie - masz więc pozdrowienia
Od twych robotników, wpakowanych do więzienia".
Na Promenadzie pod pałacu murem
Stanął tłum ludzki długim sznurem.
I każdy pocichu usta swe rozwiera:
Już diabli wzięli nareszcie Kunitzera

This was a popular song in Łódż in 1906, and published in local newspapers as late as 1936. I will add information about this song to the article. But I wonder should I add the whole song, or just a few translated parts? --MyMoloboaccount (talk) 22:50, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

Start with a source. And you could add it, translated - it is old enough to be in the public domain, I believe. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 21:38, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

[5] (it takes awhile to load). The "what will the future in 2036 look like" section a few pages later is also a fun read (if you can read Polish).Volunteer Marek (talk) 21:23, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

True, but how is it related to this subject? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 21:38, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

It's a source for the lyrics of the song (they're printed towards the end).Volunteer Marek (talk) 21:19, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not the place to praise the assassination of a human being. HerkusMonte (talk) 05:41, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

But it is a place to mention a notable folk song which praises the assassination. Hell, some people have whole Wikipedia articles about the treatment and praising of their demise in the arts. It's no different than mentioning this song in that article. Having said all that, I'm a bit of two minds about Mr. Kunitzer himself. A lot of the information on him seems to come from the socialist movement and at the same time there are indications that there is another side to the story.Volunteer Marek (talk) 21:19, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

I do agree with that. Discussing cultural impact is not a praise. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 21:25, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

factory image

I know, it's some kind of OR but the image shows obviously the same building as this newspaper article [6]. Any objections to use it? HerkusMonte (talk) 08:13, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

As long as a free license could be used, I think it would be a good idea. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 21:08, 29 May 2011 (UTC)